One final shot at that 3rd CL he craves? Almost a no-lose situation as he won't get any blame should we fail to make 4th.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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It is possible, but extremely unlikely, that all three of us hit a patch of rough form. Even if we do, its very likely that you join us in it. Injuries and luck have stacked up against everyone this season, not just yourselves. Your posts make it sound like David Moyes has done pretty much everything right and has been robbed. It simply isn't true.
It actually says he's made mistakes in the post you quoted, good job.
This
Agreeing with Scousers again...
David Moyes is the worst thing to happen to United since 1958.
Hence why my post says "pretty much everything" and not "absolutely everything." To elaborate, you don't take the Champions from 1st to 7th without making more than "a few" mistakes.
maybe because we wont be playing jones and giggs in cm, a centre back and a 40 year old
would be great but his standing in the game would suffer for the way he would essentially have to backstab Moyes to come back.I'm not sure he understands that those are mistakes, from his interviews and going on and on about playing well and bad luck and referees, he actually gives off the impression he's doing everything right and it's just fate conspiring against him.
Incredible, simply incredible... this very squad, minus 65m of signings walked the league last season. We're not that worse off?
1st to 7th isn't enough? What about all those defeats this season?
The league was at a worse standard last season than it was this. I'm sure that you know and agree with that point to start things off. Our competitors are stronger this season.
I didn't say in that post that we're playing an acceptable standard of football, or that our results are acceptable. I said that they are bearable and understandable given the issues Moyes has had to overcome this season.
We have the same squad as last season - blame lies here with Woodward - in a stronger league than last season, with a manager with less experience than we had last season, with backroom staff less experienced and knowledgeable about United than last season. So yes, we are worse off.
It's still possible to get to 4th, but it's very, very unlikely. The Norwegian supporters branch have an article on their home page that looks at how many points we've taken in our last 14 games of the five previous seasons compared to our rivals. This is the gist of it:
So, with SAF as the manager we only played well enough in our final 14 games to salvage a top four finish once, if we use our current league standing as a starting point. What are the odds that Moyes pulls it off in a season where we're nothing short of crap, quite frankly? I'd say the odds are abysmal at best.
This is what we need to catch the teams in front of us:
Arsenal: United need to gain at least 15 more points.
City: United need to gain at least 13 more points.
Chelsea: United need to gain at least 13 more points.
Liverpool: United need to gain at least 7 more points.
Everton: United need to gain at least 5 more points.
Tottenham: United need to gain at least 4 more points.
And here are the point tallies of the seven teams in the last 14 games of each of the past five seasons.
2012/13:
Arsenal: 35 points
United: 30 points
Tottenham: 30 points
Chelsea: 29 points
City: 26 points
Liverpool: 26 points
Everton: 22 points
Which would give us a disappointing 6th place.
2011/12:
United: 34 points
City: 32 points
Arsenal: 30 points
Everton: 26 points
Chelsea: 21 points
Tottenham: 19 points
Liverpool: 13 points
Which would mean that we blast past Liverpool, Spurs and Everton. If the results remain the same we'll also pass Chelsea on goal difference. Arsenal and City still ahead. In other words, 3rd place.
2010/11:
Chelsea: 27 points
Everton: 27 points
Liverpool: 26 points
City: 26 points
United: 26 points
Tottenham: 21 points
Arsenal: 19 points
We'll pass Spurs, but that's it. 6th place.
2009/10:
United: 32 points
Chelsea: 31 points
Everton: 29 points
Tottenham: 28 points
Arsenal: 26 points
City: 23 points
Liverpool: 22 points
We'll pass Liverpool, and finish ahead of Spurs on goal difference with the same results as that season. Still won't get us more than 5th place.
2008/09:
Liverpool: 35 points
Chelsea: 35 points
United: 34 points
Arsenal: 29 points
Tottenham: 27 points
Everton: 26 points
City: 22 points
Everton and Spurs are easily passed. Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal prove too strong, City overtaken by one point. 5th place.
Arsenal: United need to gain at least 15 more points.
City: United need to gain at least 13 more points.
Chelsea: United need to gain at least 13 more points.
Liverpool: United need to gain at least 7 more points.
Everton: United need to gain at least 5 more points.
Tottenham: United need to gain at least 4 more points.
And here are the point tallies of the seven teams in the last 14 games of each of the past five seasons.
2012/13:
Arsenal: 35 points
United: 30 points
Tottenham: 30 points
Chelsea: 29 points
City: 26 points
Liverpool: 26 points
Everton: 22 points
Which would give us a disappointing 6th place.
2011/12:
United: 34 points
City: 32 points
Arsenal: 30 points
Everton: 26 points
Chelsea: 21 points
Tottenham: 19 points
Liverpool: 13 points
Which would mean that we blast past Liverpool, Spurs and Everton. If the results remain the same we'll also pass Chelsea on goal difference. Arsenal and City still ahead. In other words, 3rd place.
2010/11:
Chelsea: 27 points
Everton: 27 points
Liverpool: 26 points
City: 26 points
United: 26 points
Tottenham: 21 points
Arsenal: 19 points
We'll pass Spurs, but that's it. 6th place.
2009/10:
United: 32 points
Chelsea: 31 points
Everton: 29 points
Tottenham: 28 points
Arsenal: 26 points
City: 23 points
Liverpool: 22 points
We'll pass Liverpool, and finish ahead of Spurs on goal difference with the same results as that season. Still won't get us more than 5th place.
2008/09:
Liverpool: 35 points
Chelsea: 35 points
United: 34 points
Arsenal: 29 points
Tottenham: 27 points
Everton: 26 points
City: 22 points
Everton and Spurs are easily passed. Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal prove too strong, City overtaken by one point. 5th place.
So, with SAF as the manager we only played well enough in our final 14 games to salvage a top four finish once, if we use our current league standing as a starting point. What are the odds that Moyes pulls it off in a season where we're nothing short of crap, quite frankly? I'd say the odds are abysmal at best.
It could always be portrayed as the Glazers sacking Moyes and begging him to help out, and he'd be seen as the hero doing a favour for United.
Funny that we haven't played in a 5 days and in that time there's been enough speculation to fill 35 pages of this thread.
I don't know why people work so hard to make everyone else in the forum 'concede goals'.
Many people said in this forum there was no chance we would get 4th after Everton in december, you know who are you. Obviously that is absolute idiocy since we would have been in a great position to be there even after all the injuries and bad luck of the last two months if we had just won on sunday, which probably just meant charlie adams goal not deflecting in. Shows that people have basically no clue what's going to happen.
If we win the next 3-4 games on the bounce we will be in a great position again. Obviously the question is whether we will or not, but the goal needs to be just being in striking distance asap. Not point 'conceding 4th place', I mean seriously someone explain the point to me? So that we can agree that Moyes will be sacked or something? And what would that even achieve. Conceding very realistic goals is pointless
I don't know why people work so hard to make everyone else in the forum 'concede goals'.
Many people said in this forum there was no chance we would get 4th after Everton in december, you know who are you. Obviously that is absolute idiocy since we would have been in a great position to be there even after all the injuries and bad luck of the last two months if we had just won on sunday, which probably just meant charlie adams goal not deflecting in. Shows that people have basically no clue what's going to happen.
If we win the next 3-4 games on the bounce we will be in a great position again. Obviously the question is whether we will or not, but the goal needs to be just being in striking distance asap. Not point 'conceding 4th place', I mean seriously someone explain the point to me? So that we can agree that Moyes will be sacked or something? And what would that even achieve. Conceding very realistic goals is pointless
Hell of a risk though. And we've seen twice now how the team isn't the same once they know Sir Alex is leaving. Who's to say the form picks up to the extent required to win the CL and get 4th?
i remember well that year...we started off very well and if i m not wrong we won the first 10 games of the season. Whiteside and Robson in midfield,olsen and Strachan on the flanks, mc grath at the back...not bad at all. Then in the second part of the season squad was decimated with injuries and the slide started off from there...
That article doesn't take into account goal difference. To overtake City or us, you'll probably need an extra point.
The league is stronger, but from 1st to 7th? No one is complaining about being 3rd or 4th, and 7th is not bearable or understandable for a club of size, with our squad and our budget.
Credit Moyes for signing Mata and blame Woodward for the summer?
Going to be worse when we don't play for 2 and a half weeks between the 25th of February and the 8 of March
Credit Moyes for signing Mata and blame Woodward for the summer?
I think you were looking for the 'double standard' word.
It's a long shot, but still a better chance than either happening with Moyes in charge, and like I said, almost no-lose for Sir Alex, yet everything to gain.
He's be seen as a deity if he pulls of the CL.
The league is stronger, but from 1st to 7th? No one is complaining about being 3rd or 4th, and 7th is not bearable or understandable for a club of size, with our squad and our budget.
Credit Moyes for signing Mata and blame Woodward for the summer?
I've literally not said any of that in the two posts I've made in this thread.
The way I see it - let's moan about finishing 7th when we actually finish 7th. It may be a tough ask to finish 4th now (which I don't agree with, it's not completely ridiculous to imagine a few clubs imploding while we improve) but people here seem to think it'll definitely not happen. Personally, for me, I would take 5th as about what I'd expect from Moyes in his first season here. Agree or disagree about that being understandable as you will, when Moyes was appointed I expected a bad/worse first season and for that to then improve radically in the second.
As for creditting Moyes with signing Mata - I haven't. Anywhere.
Apologies for that one, but I've seen it with lots of Moyes apologists who credit him for signing Mata and blame Woodward for the summer debacle.
Fair enough if you seriously thought 5th was acceptable when Moyes was appointed. I thought we'd get 3rd at worse and hence 7th is far far from acceptable in my opinion.
Where? I don't think I've seen anyone say that? Fair enough if you're right.
Can we ban the term "Moyes apologists" ?
fecking pathetic
fecking pathetic
Thing is...in all the interviews I've seen Ferguson do since retiring, I've never seen him look so healthy, happy and relaxed. His red nose seems to have improved to! I think he's loving not being in the thick of it anymore...
Just can't see it myself. Moyes will have at least until December in my view, then if a decision is taken to get rid of him a new man will be quietly approached and be ready to take over straight away.
Thats a bit of an overreaction...Agreeing with Scousers again...
David Moyes is the worst thing to happen to United since 1958.
If he was sacked now and we brought someone in who salvaged 4th place, it could be a good thing he was here. We wouldn't have got Mata if we weren't so shit this season, Rooney might have been gone last summer if Moyes didn't make him stay and a few other things like Januzaj. We weren't going to win the title this season regardless, and after Fergie it was always likely that the first manager would struggle, and it was more likely (to me at least) that the second manager after Fergie would be successful. So in a way, we bring in Moyes to be shit for half a year, sign Mata and then get rid of him and then we recover and save 4th place and are right back amongst it next season
Plausible scenario right?
Obviously not in the same post, so it'd be very difficult to find, but Raven will probably agree that it's a general theme amongst some.
And I'm not some blind supporter staggering through a Moyes and Woodward fuelled paradise. This has, so far, been a pretty poor season for any champions, let alone United, but personally I didn't us to come flying out of the traps. Maybe I'm just a pessimist, but there was (and still is) a huge amount for Moyes to get around here. He's got to get this team performing to their expectations and abilities, while work with Woodward to identify key targets for next season, trust Woodward to acquire said targets, and then get them all gelling and working well ready for the new season. On top of all the other commitments that come with being United's manager. Moyes was picked to do these things, to be the person who reshapes the United squad and takes us through this period of change, so I think he should be given a chance to actually do this - which half a season is not.
Plausible, but unlikely, I highly doubt Moyes will be gone even if we finish 17th and lost to Olympiakos.Thats a bit of an overreaction...
If he was sacked now and we brought someone in who salvaged 4th place, it could be a good thing he was here. We wouldn't have got Mata if we weren't so shit this season, Rooney might have been gone last summer if Moyes didn't make him stay and a few other things like Januzaj. We weren't going to win the title this season regardless, and after Fergie it was always likely that the first manager would struggle, and it was more likely (to me at least) that the second manager after Fergie would be successful. So in a way, we bring in Moyes to be shit for half a year, sign Mata and then get rid of him and then we recover and save 4th place and are right back amongst it next season
Plausible scenario right?
Also, holding onto Rooney may not be that great, he and Van Persie don't really work well together and personally I think Van Persie is the better player.
Sir Alex won't return even if he wants. For a start he needs his old staff there cause he isn't someone who does training. Some of them are in other jobs and I doubt they will return for a couple of months only to get sacked by the next manager in the summer.
Sir Alex with Round, Neville and co won't make sense at all. So, I don't see any chance that he may make a return regardless of circumstances.
Fair enough, I just think this could have all been avoided if we appointed Mourinho who would have hit the ground running.
I also firming believe he doesn't have what it takes and am more worried about the state of our squad with him doing the buying.
Someone here wrote that we went for a manager who we can 'mould'. But who is doing the moulding? Unless Fergie is in daily contact with Moyes, there is no molding. He just has to figure out what to do.
I also wanted Mourinho but we still wouldn't be winning the league this season, with him or anyone else in charge. For us to do that we would've needed a great transfer window last summer which, for reasons noone really knows, didn't happen. We don't know who has what say in transfers (or atleast I believe so) either. Judge Moyes more on how he deals with this situation we're in now, rather than how we got into it.
True, and I'd hate to interrupt his retirement if there are other viable options, but he's our only hope.
That's also true, just suggesting the best solution to our predicament right now, not saying it'll happen.
More likely Moyes get abducted by aliens than it happening.
Sir Alex and his hairdryer and influence over the refs should see us get that 4th place trophy.
We might not, but honestly, did you think Chelsea have a better squad than us back in May 2013? Did Chelsea sign any superstar that is completely our of our price range since then? He has them right in the title race and actually leading the "storeytable".
I think if Mourinho had come in the summer - we wouldn't have spent so long fannying about after Fabregas and we certainly wouldn't have brought in Fellaini for nearly £30m in the last couple of hours of the transfer window. Overall we would have had a better window, although we wouldn't have signed Mata in January that's for sure.
No, because according to Phelan, it was him who was running the club for the last two years.
Yes, I do. Don't forget just how much RVP carried us last season. Chelsea have a fairly solid squad with plenty of talented players, as well as a fantastic manager.
Again, comes down to the mysterious topic of just who has the most say in transfers.
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