Lowkey post more often, your few posts on Moyes today have been the only branch to cling onto and stop our moods from sinking ever further into the muck, top post.
Moyes So Far!
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Lowkey post more often, your few posts on Moyes today have been the only branch to cling onto and stop our moods from sinking ever further into the muck, top post.
I'd give this post a standing ovation if I could. Incredible.
He's started rebuilding the team by over paying for a midfielder who most people on here did not want and paid a club record fee that anyone in the world can tell you is a top player, are we really giving him that much credit for signing Mata? What next? Moyes wants to sign Messi and Ronaldo, he much know what he's doing. In that case, my 5yr old nephew knows what he's doing.
What evidence do you have that Mourinho will struggle to replace Sir Alex? Does anyone truly believe we won't be battling for the title if we appointed Mourinho?
That manager hasn't become a bad manager, if he takes over that Stoke or West Ham, he'd have them doing well for their budget eventually. However, we've seen no sign, none whatsoever that he's capable of taking charge of a top club. "We need to make things difficult for Newcastle" Come on, we should be aiming to steamroll the likes of Newcastle, not trying to make things difficult for them. Barcelona or Bayern we try to make thing difficult for.
Do you realise what that is? Because most clubs do the sensible thing and appoint managers with track records of success, not just "give the British manager a chance". I worry that we're merely giving him more chance to get things wrong, selling the likes of Chicharito, Nani & Kagawa and give inferior players like Welbeck, Young & Valencia new contracts...
I'd sack him now. The balance of evidence says he's the wrong man for the job. Business decisions are made on a 'most likely outcome' basis - 'beyond reasonable doubt' should be reserved for a courtroom. Waiting until we're certain he's the wrong manager is waiting too long.
I do wonder how accurate the stats are. I have just watched the 1st half and here are the stats on RVP. 7 completed passes in the first half. I havent yet watched the 2nd half but there is no way RVP went the entire 2nd half without completing a pass.
2nd bizzarre stat doing the rounds is that RVP and Rooney only passed to eachother at kick offs. Well in the 1st half they passed to eachother 3 times outside the kick offs.
So 2 problems, firstly how accurate are the stats?
secondly, people are basing opinions on things that are incorrect, you for example with what i just watched
Im watching the game again and its 7 minutes in and RVP has completed 3 passes so far. If that stat is right for the next 83 minutes he will have completed only 4 passes....
4th on the 12th minute
5th on 31 minutes
6th pass 32 minutes to Rooney
7th pass to Rooney 1st half injury time.
18th minute, Rooney completes a pass to RVP.
31 minutes RVP completes a pass to Rooney.
injury time Rooney to RVP
Playing Carrick at CB is a foolish choice which he should know from Fergie's various attempts at unsettles two parts of the pitch, much better to give Keane (or Wooton last season, or Thorpe the season before) a go there in emergencies and keep Carrick in the middle. How does it keep happening every fecking season...
Seriously, were either of them on the bench and how many CB's do you keep on the bench?. We actually had 3 out on the pitch at the start of the game so he had cover for losing 1 CB. Do you think he should have 2 CB's on the bench each game?
7th highest salary in his field in the world and he's learning on the job.
Our best performance in the league was Swansea away, there's simply no evidence to suggest he or the team will get better, if anything that Stoke game was worse than ever before. We're playing better football than last season? Are you having a laugh?
Also, hard working really isn't that much of a selling point, most people remotely near the top of their field are hardworking, can you name a manager of a top club who is famous for being lazy?
Personally I already think it's beyond reasonable doubt that he's a complete failure. You can never be certain, he could wake up one day and be possessed by Sir Alex's younger self, but that's not very likely.
He made 15 in the game (still not a lot but its more then twice that).
Didnt Rio complain back in October itself about Moyes? Something about this manager doesnt announce the starting XI until the day of the game and Ferguson did it the day before. Something along those lines? Maybe Rio wasnt happy with the way his testimonial went? It was his day sort of and he wanted his friends like Bolt and a couple others to play after halftime but Moyes turned it into another pre-season game which we ended up losing anyway.
and people are basing opinions on flawed or incorrect stats.....
I didn't need stats to tell me everything went wrong at Stoke. Setting the team up to play to Stoke's only strength...
He would still be playing awful football.
Sure, but there are people basing their opinions on falsehoods.I didn't need stats to tell me everything went wrong at Stoke. Setting the team up to play to Stoke's only strength...
Moyes has seen Fergie's ''put importance to wingplay but apply some reasonable buildup play from the middle of the pitch'' and raised it with ''your only objective is stay on the wings and get to that moneyball byline ya hear may (fishing boat sailor accent)!!''...
So ''we have been playing like this the past two years under SAF'' shaolin keyboard fighting monks... what have you got to say for yourselves...
I'm convinced that he would not have us winning the title even if we bought the whole Bayern squad and added Messi & Ronaldo.
It'd be like "Cristiano you stay wide left and put crosses in for Leo to get on the end of."
I appreciate he's working hard. He's just not up to it.
This should debunk that ''we played like this for the past three seasons under SAF as well''myth...
I'd work very hard if someone offered me the 7th highest salary in the world in my field.
People were praising him here with the job he was doing a good job for that level - 6th or 7th consistently every year. They finished 4th once in his tenure right? That maybe good enough for a club like Everton (no disrespect of course) but not with us.
Like you for real? We have been playing better football than last season? The video below was us last season. And this video is just the half of it. We played much better football last season. How you cannot see that is beyond me.
Does this picture tell you that we have been playing better this season? Are you seriously not watching us hoof the ball up the field for no reason at all more this season? Look Im not saying we were glamorous to watch every time and we were on the level of Barca but we did have our moments but I have not seen anything like that all season under Moyes.
He struggled early on? I think you got it wrong again mate. He started off pretty well or decent I should say. We were 5 points of the top when we played Arsenal at home on November 10. From then to now, almost three months on, we are 7th and 15 points of the top. We had 3 losses in the league till that Arsenal game. But again since then we have lost 5 league games and not to mention the loss against Swansea in the FA Cup and Sunderland in the Carling Cup. How could you possibly say the man is getting better at his job as the year has progressed when clearly the facts speak otherwise.
And this work ethic you are talking about. Thats bullshit in my opinion. Every manager of a top club works hard. Its goes without saying you should have a proper work ethnic to succeed in any walk of life. And no manager also wants to disappoint anybody. So that argument is invalid. You also mentioned he is learning fast? Could you please elaborate on that. What exactly has he learnt? And he understands whats need to be done? Really? Didnt Moyes just say in the post interview after Stoke that he didnt know what he should do to get a win? Does that tell you Moyes know what needs to be done?
I mean surely even the worst manager in the world would get us to some sort of stability of results even if it's average results. We've been in free fall of late. I'm sure Moyes will at least stop the rot at worst and make us harder to beat. Unimaginable to think we can keep up this level.
Still absolutely shellshocked by that map.
He obviously has problems with the tactical side of the game and what does he go and do??? Bring in some absolute nippletwisters who know feck all about playing intricate football. Surrounded himself with dinosaurs and hoofball lovers.
This is not the man to lead Manchester United. He does not know his football.
I abhor the soul destroying fact that he sits on the glorious throne whilst plenty of men could best his footvall knowledge.
He obviously has problems with the tactical side of the game and what does he go and do??? Bring in some absolute nippletwisters who know feck all about playing intricate football. Surrounded himself with dinosaurs and hoofball lovers.
This is not the man to lead Manchester United. He does not know his football.
I abhor the soul destroying fact that he sits on the glorious throne whilst plenty of men could best his footvall knowledge.
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I don't believe that heat map for a minute. Firstly, our possession hasn't been significantly worse than under SAF, so I don't see why we should have less "heat" on the diagram under Moyes. Secondly, there's no way that we've played with that much width on the left touchline this season. I'm calling bullpoo. Also, our defence is playing deeper than last season (which is a negative, tbf) and that isn't shown either.
Edit: They've also shown touches from kickoff, but not from when we've been defending corners for some reason. It's total rubbish.
Edit: They've also shown touches from kickoff, but not from when we've been defending corners for some reason. It's total rubbish.
I would say it has got worse since Xmas, well December really, so on that basis it can't get much worse can it? Can it? Please tell me it can't get much worse
Where's @Tomalonge for some positivity...Im not defending Moyes here but is this another flawed use of info?. What is the time period for the SAF heat map?. The reason I ask is that essentially they are very similar but if the SAF heat map is of a much bigger sample then that might explain the sparseness of activity under Moyes. The red areas are still essentially in the same area.
Moyes has seen Fergie's ''put importance to wingplay but apply some reasonable buildup play from the middle of the pitch'' and raised it with ''your only objective is stay on the wings and get to that moneyball byline ya hear may (fishing boat sailor accent)!!''...
So ''we have been playing like this the past two years under SAF'' shaolin keyboard fighting monks... what have you got to say for yourselves...
It can get much worse.I would say it has got worse since Xmas, well December really, so on that basis it can't get much worse can it? Can it? Please tell me it can't get much worse
As you were.
We've gone from losing most the time against top7 clubs to losing all the time against anyone.I would say it has got worse since Xmas, well December really, so on that basis it can't get much worse can it? Can it? Please tell me it can't get much worse
Yes, but it can't get any worse now, can it. Well we do have Fulham at the weekend
The more I look a this the more similarities appear. Same forward heat in where Valencia plays, same hot spots just smaller. The only real difference is the volume. Dont this debunks anything, all it does is show more flawed analysis and use of information.
This should debunk that ''we played like this for the past three seasons under SAF as well''myth...
Yes, but it can't get any worse now, can it. Well we do have Fulham at the weekend
Actually, I guess we would beat Fulham somehow and with Liverpool playing Arsenal and Spurs v Everton, we'd probably be 5pts behind 4th place come Monday and have everyone get excited about the 4th place trophy.
He's started rebuilding the team by over paying for a midfielder who most people on here did not want and paid a club record fee that anyone in the world can tell you is a top player, are we really giving him that much credit for signing Mata? What next? Moyes wants to sign Messi and Ronaldo, he much know what he's doing. In that case, my 5yr old nephew knows what he's doing.
What evidence do you have that Mourinho will struggle to replace Sir Alex? Does anyone truly believe we won't be battling for the title if we appointed Mourinho?
That manager hasn't become a bad manager, if he takes over that Stoke or West Ham, he'd have them doing well for their budget eventually. However, we've seen no sign, none whatsoever that he's capable of taking charge of a top club. "We need to make things difficult for Newcastle" Come on, we should be aiming to steamroll the likes of Newcastle, not trying to make things difficult for them. Barcelona or Bayern we try to make thing difficult for.
Do you realise what that is? Because most clubs do the sensible thing and appoint managers with track records of success, not just "give the British manager a chance". I worry that we're merely giving him more chance to get things wrong, selling the likes of Chicharito, Nani & Kagawa and give inferior players like Welbeck, Young & Valencia new contracts...
I think the general consensus on Mourinho is that short-term, yes, the man knows how to win and he will win at every club he goes to. Is he right long-term for Manchester United? I have my doubts. His ego is too big. When results are not going right, when the press is on him and he is backed into a corner we have seen a different Mourinho. The manager is never bigger than the club. In Mourinho's case, it can be argued (not saying im right) but in his own head, he is the boss, he is the chief and he is bigger than the club. He has had big problems with the owners, media, players in his previous jobs in Spain, Italy and England. It is the Mourinho way or the highway and the isolation of Mata is a clear example of this. Mourinho is looking to be the best manager of all time and he will continue to seek new challenges until he has reached his goal. He has and would have had no loyalty towards Manchester United.
Just because the team achieve a win and a result does not mean the performance is good Cal. In my opinion we are playing decent football on the whole and not too different to last season. Sure, there is lots of room for improvement but i feel we are heading on the right track. Last season and the season before, we would look very lackluster against mid-table/bottom half teams (especially away) but still we would find a way of getting a win. That was the SAF mentality. The gaps in our midfield was clear for all to see. We would see our midfield getting bossed around.
I'm not even disagreeing with you. I am just saying that i do see signs of improvement and it isn't all doom and gloom. Afterall, we topped our champions league group. In regards to Chicharito, Kagawa and Nani. Would you really be disappointed to see them out the door? Chicharito provides nothing to the team apart from movement and finishing. The premiership does not suit Kagawa. It is too fast paced and he does not get enough time to do his magic. So far, he has been a flop. In regards to Nani, Moyes gave him his new contract and he has not done anything to prove it was deserved. Nani is one of my favourite players, but lets be honest, he was meant to take over the reigns from Ronaldo when he left but he has been far too inconsistent and out of form the last 2-3 seasons.
You seem to think that i am happy that we are in the currently in 7th position. I am not. To deem someone as a complete failure over half a season is just illogical. The season isn't even over yet.
@RDCR07 When i mentioned better football, i meant away from home. At home, we battered most teams last season. Again, it is very important to understand that we had a fully fit RVP for the whole of last season. We have had to play most of the season without RVP or Rooney in the team and that makes a big difference. We also missed Carrick for 4-6 weeks and no Fellaini for the majority of the season. We all know how Carrick has carried our midfield for a few years now and fans/pundits know that our midfield is the weak point. No Scholes this year to bail the midfield out.
And yes, our results have been bad, and our performance against Sunderland in both legs was unacceptable. Moyes knows that. The players know that. Most of the big teams have struggled at Stoke this season. I actually thought we played well and to lose 2 center backs and to concede the first goal like that was unfortunate. I have no doubt that the return of Mata, RVP, Rooney, Carrick, Fellaini will be a massive boost to this team. With some more game time, for all of them to return to match fitness, we can hopefully push top 4 and go on a big win streak.
Again, I'm just saying its not all doom and gloom and its too early to talk about sacking the manager.
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Our of curiosity how many lads on here actually feel confident going into away games with Moyes as the manager? When SAF was in charge, even away games to City, Arsenal and Chelsea, I felt fairly confident we could get a result and we did the last couple of seasons. This season I just knew going into City and Chelsea, there was no way we were going to even come back up with a point let alone 3. I can say the same when we go to Arsenal this month.
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If we give Moyes the sack, what will he go on to do? Will he ever take over another big club and lead them to trophies or take over a decent team and transform them into a winning machine?
I can't see it, and that alone tells me he's not good enough for us. It also tells me we won't regret it if we sack him. We won't have the manager version of a Pogba or Forlan situation where they went on to look like world-beaters after leaving us.
I can't see it, and that alone tells me he's not good enough for us. It also tells me we won't regret it if we sack him. We won't have the manager version of a Pogba or Forlan situation where they went on to look like world-beaters after leaving us.
Feel a bit sorry for Moyes, when you get Rio acting like a prick on Twitter today. The players should be professional and be a bit more savvy on social media. Really disappointing stuff from Rio, really poor.
Sir Alex was definitely bigger than the club when he decided to take on the largest shareholder on horse sperm back in the day. Mourinho has already been there, done that in Serie A & La Liga, what has he got left to achieve in the game? He'd never go to Barcelona and already been to Real Madrid, so is there anything that will interest him if he took over at United? A shot at the WC with Portugal? He's always said he'd want to do that after 60, that's a decade to go.
We must have watched completely different games over the last few months. Even when we beat Cardiff last week, the performance was anything but good, there were long periods of Cardiff players strolling straight through midfield and don't get me start again on that Stoke game. Concentrating on crosses against the tallest and probably slowest team in the league.
I would be very disappointed to see those 3 go if the likes of Young and Valencia stay and play every week. Kagawa looked useful enough under Sir Alex and was out top scorer in the league last season behind only RVP, Rooney and Chicharito. Moyes has no idea how to play a player like him and I worry what he's going to do with Mata.
Chicharito has consistently outscored Welbeck whenever he's played, even when Rooney and RVP were out, he wasn't getting a look in.
How is it illogical? Were Liverpool wrong to sack Woy? Bayern wrong to sack Klinsmann? The season will be over soon enough with Moyes in charge, we won't make 4th and we'd lose in the CL QF to any of the other group winners, in fact it could get embarassing if we get Bayern, Barca or Real.
What did Rio do?
Is anyone even confident at home against relegation candidates nowadays? The fact many people are worried about 20th placed Fulham this weekend is clear enough.
Funny enough I can actually see us doing okay at Arsenal, the players love to play against them for some reason and Evra tends to get the last laugh against that lot.
Become West Ham/Stoke's next manager and keep them midtable forever and ever.
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