Watching us play the high balls when the wind was as strong as it was bordered on lunacy. It was never going to work, and we didn't look threatening once while doing it. The lack of ability to change it up going forward is the worst thing about us this season. We should be more than capable of trying something different when our main plan is clearly hopeless to begin with, and Moyes has to take the blame for not giving them different tactical instructions during the games.
Moyes So Far!
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Rooney had a rather underwhelming season by his standards last year by his own words, secondly Sir Alex hasn't finished outside the top 4 in 23 years so I'm not entirely convinved he would have been struggling, we're always up at the top of the injury charts year on year and it's not once has it had the effect you're suggesting.
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I don't think it's about transfer windows as much as what happens on the pitch.
Rodgers struggled bad to begin with, but even if he didn't signed Sturridge and Coutinho, what he was trying to implement on the pitch was still worth waiting for more from. When you can see a manager implementing something new and different and results don't go your way because the players are learning a new system (or struggling to adapt to it), that's when the argument for patience in spite of results is merited.
I honestly don't see anything worthwhile in what Moyes is doing. There's nothing about his tactics that suggests a winning formula that needs more tweaking or training. Your only hope is that old dogs can learn new tricks. But then, who is he going to learn from? He's taken his old guard with him.
I dearly hope Moyes gets the summer window to rebuild. He'll be needing to sign a leftback, centreback, midfielder and winger for the first team. Possible a forward as well if one of Rooney/Van Persie leaves. I can't think of many I'd rather have signing those players for you. You could be starting next season with as much as seven Moyes signings in the starting XI.
I don't think it's about transfer windows as much as what happens on the pitch.
Rodgers struggled bad to begin with, but even if he didn't signed Sturridge and Coutinho, what he was trying to implement on the pitch was still worth waiting for more from. When you can see a manager implementing something new and different and results don't go your way because the players are learning a new system (or struggling to adapt to it), that's when the argument for patience in spite of results is merited.
I honestly don't see anything worthwhile in what Moyes is doing. There's nothing about his tactics that suggests a winning formula that needs more tweaking or training. Your only hope is that old dogs can learn new tricks. But then, who is he going to learn from? He's taken his old guard with him.
I dearly hope Moyes gets the summer window to rebuild. He'll be needing to sign a leftback, centreback, midfielder and winger for the first team. Possible a forward as well if one of Rooney/Van Persie leaves. I can't think of many I'd rather have signing those players for you. You could be starting next season with as much as seven Moyes signings in the starting XI.
I find the whole 'he needs to build his own team' reasoning a bit off. Fair enough, he didn't inherit a brilliant team, I think we all accept that. But it's better than what he's been able to make of it. He's also been allowed to spend over 60m on two players and got the added bonus of a great talent like Januzaj. Now, if he can't get that team with those three new players playing good football by the end of the season - not Bayern level, just good enough - then why should we give him another 100m to spend in the summer?
Yeah, there basically doesn't seem to be any playing style at the moment, which I think is what pisses people off more than the fact we are not challenging for the title..since that was kind of inevitable after the biggest upheaval at the club for some 26 odd years. But you go regularly to Old Trafford, and I think it's great that the crowd haven't got on Moyes' back yet. However...if we were in this position this time next year...do you think the crowd would turn. I always think matchday going fans who vocalise their frustration and end of patience scare the living shite out of directors and owners!!!!!!
Just as a matter of interest, does this thread have a shelf life? Will there be a point at which it's accepted Moyes isn't going to be sacked? Will it go on for the next 20 years?
True, I really hope that changes.
Having said that, which manager do you think would have made us a highly entertaining unit with the same bunch of players? We hardly played football that was enjoyable to watch over the last 2-3 seasons, the difference was that we were able to grind out results despite not dominating oppositions. While it is true that Moyes has made it even worse with his obsession with wing play even when it is not working, it's a bit harsh on him to expect him to completely transform the team into something they haven't shown to be even under Sir Alex.
The worrying thing for me more than what we have seen so far is Moyes' history and the fact that he's never been known to play an attractive style of football.
This, a million times. The idea that a manager should be judged only when he made the squad 'his own' is utterly absurd.
He was vast improvement for me. He gave us Andy Carroll for £35 million. When I'm down, like losing to stoke, that STILL brings a smile to my face when I think about it.
Another 6 months of Dalglish would have been Golden, who knows who he could have bought in that time.
I don't think Roy was a better manager than Dalglish, but I also do not think he was worse. Dalglish was just as an almighty feck up, he just had the sense to pander to his audience better.
We've no way of knowing.
However I don't for one moment believe that had SAF stayed in charge, he would have done nothing in the transfer market last summer. Nor would he have discarded the coaching staff. I even think he'd have given a few games to Zaha. Nor would we be hearing about older players lacking faith or the team as a whole lacking drive and confidence.
But, we've no way of knowing.
After our Christmas run I thought Moyes was going to prove to everyone he deserved to survive at least until next Christmas. Then came January and that pushed me into the, "If he doesn't show us more, we shouldn't waste another season (or a transfer window) on him." That's where I am now. I won't say it's all about fourth place, I will say for me it's all about seeing some positive changes on the pitch.
Ok, but if you take away the Stoke game. Mata's debut was good, sure we didn't set the world alight but there was a huge improvement from the games before.
The Britannia's always been a tough place for us to go, most of the time we just scraped draws against Stoke under SAF.
This is how I feel too. I was optimistic after our December run, I thought that there would be positive changes on the pitch, coupled with a signing or two in the transfer window to push on for 4th. However, our January results have been horrific and have pushed me into the 'Moyes should be out at the end of the season unless he shows changes to the way we play.' I thought that our early results were down to the players getting used to the new regime and style of play. But it's February now and there has been absolutely no changes to the way we play. I do not see what Moyes' plans for the squad are. I don't see what his vision of how he wants the team to play is, and that's my main criticism of him. We don't do anything besides hoof it out wide and cross the ball in (or rather, into the first defender).
So this is another criticise Moyes thread and has nothing to do with any sack watch. Pretty much everything in here could go in the Moyes so far thread.
Yup, any mods wanna merge this thread with that one?
Moyes So Far is a better title, too. Doesn't input the image of people watching a live feed of his testicles.
That's your opinion so fair play to you. But I maintain that half the people on here have very little idea of what Moyes did at Everton because they only ever watched them play against United, or other stronger teams. There's a lot to be praised about Moyes' style of play at Everton. What I always liked about them was that he drilled his attack well and emphasised team play, as opposed to United in recent years where we've tended relied on moments of individual brilliance to score rather than working as a cohesive unit. Obviously at the top level there has to be a balance between the two and that's what I hope Moyes will bring in the long run.
The one thing I will say is that the 'Moyes signs shite' bandwagon you're firmly a part of is ridiculous. With what he had he signed some great players for Everton's level, paying a bit over market odds for Fellaini (who I maintain will turn out a decent player if utilised correctly) doesn't change that. By the same logic you could say that Rodgers signs shite because he spent about £21m on Aspas, Ilori and Alberto who've played less than 25 games between them for Liverpool. Picking out singular bad signings doesn't mean anything.
Rio posted on facebook about how managers are getting sacked and asked fans who do they expect to get sacked next, i don't need to tell you how the comments went, then the post was gone, rio is a big wum.
Saw that, Rio knew what he was doing.Then why are a few of them using "We're a laughing stock" as an excuse to get rid?Nonsense
We are a laughing stock. But that's not the main issue, we've had plenty of results down the years that opposition fans could take the piss out of.
Saw that on twitter, the amount of replies he got telling him he knew what he was up to was hilarious. He's such a stirrer.
It's not being used as an excuse, it is merely another symptom. Plenty of posters have given myriad reasons (excuses?) in various threads, why they don't think Moyes is right for the job.
What a complete tit.
So you're suggesting I forget everything I know about football to listen to a scouser, just because he happens to agree with you?
Try & work it out.
I give up, you carry on, I'm out for the time being.
Rio launching a subtle, social media-based mutiny. The tweets yesterday, facebook today.
Keep it up
.No, it's your point, you explain it.
I for one hope that people like Tomalonge will prevail. Moyes Ought Not Go.
His career is nearly at an end, so he's got nothing to lose. I imagine if he wants him out, he's going to do something stupid.Rio launching a subtle, social media-based mutiny. The tweets yesterday, facebook today.
Keep it up
Have I once said he's the right man for the job?
It's still very doubtful if Moyes can land any of his major targets over the summer....Mata was a god signing but...Is Kroos and Gundogan really gonna go to a team that has no champions league football and that plays 19th centruy football when otherteams like Chelsea, Real, PSG, and Man City will probably be bidding for these players too
Moyes will be fine. Manchester United will be fine. He will get time no matter how many 'Moyes out' threads are in the forums. It is unfair to judge the man on half a season. He has already started rebuilding the team. He is starting to get rid of the deadwood that should have gone a season or two before. The old guard will slowly move on i.e. Rio, Giggs, Vidic etc and the new core of the team has already started to take shape. Moyes is learning on the job. He has not had this experience before, even Mourinho would have struggled to replace a manager like SAF.
Why does a manager who has not won anything, but has been touted as an excellent manager on these forums and by his peers for what he did at Everton suddenly become a bad manager over a few bad results? Moyes has even received backing from his colleagues such as Arsene, Jose, some of the biggest managers in the world that have praised his work yet fans believe that is all complete bollocks and they are only saying that to keep him in the job so we don't threaten for the title.
Managers who are not deemed as 'world class' i.e. Jose, Arsene, rarely get a chance of managing a top club in the world. If they do, then unless success and results are achieved quickly then they generally get the boot. Even Roberto Di Matteo did not last barely half a season after just winning Chelsea the champions league the previous season. I just think it is too early to get rid of Moyes. This is not a normal circumstance, and he deserves time to get things right. I look forward to seeing the team push for a top 4 spot this season and then look forward to who comes in and goes out the door in the summer.
Why does a manager who has not won anything, but has been touted as an excellent manager on these forums and by his peers for what he did at Everton suddenly become a bad manager over a few bad results? Moyes has even received backing from his colleagues such as Arsene, Jose, some of the biggest managers in the world that have praised his work yet fans believe that is all complete bollocks and they are only saying that to keep him in the job so we don't threaten for the title.
Managers who are not deemed as 'world class' i.e. Jose, Arsene, rarely get a chance of managing a top club in the world. If they do, then unless success and results are achieved quickly then they generally get the boot. Even Roberto Di Matteo did not last barely half a season after just winning Chelsea the champions league the previous season. I just think it is too early to get rid of Moyes. This is not a normal circumstance, and he deserves time to get things right. I look forward to seeing the team push for a top 4 spot this season and then look forward to who comes in and goes out the door in the summer.
Rio launching a subtle, social media-based mutiny. The tweets yesterday, facebook today.
Keep it up
What was he saying on twitter?
The way he publically questioned Moyes' selection policy back in december, I've thought it fairly obvious that Ferdinand is one of those senior players who liked it just fine the way things used to be and doesn't care for how Moyes is doing things. He checked out in the summer basically.
If I were to speculate on the senior players not giving everything for the new manager, it'd be a lot to be honest. I'd wager Vidic, Evra, Carrick and Van Persie would all be moaning at the dinner table about him.
Good post, I hope you're right about us being fine. I agree with giving him time as it'd be unfair otherwise.
Well done Rio...With guys like him as our so called leaders in the dressing room, it's no surprise that half the guys can't be arsed to play to potential. Good thing though is that his days seem to be as numbered as Moyes's
Firstly, you've absolutely noway of knowing Moyes will be fine. In fact, if Moyes is to be fine it's gonna take a massive change in tactics, performance and luck.
Secondly, I don't think anyone thinks Moyes is a bad manager. The fact is he is a good manager. But that's the issue, he's exactly that. The biggest job in British football should not have gone to a good manager. Big Sam is a good manager. Tony Pulis is a good manager. He is out of his depth and he has us sinking, rapidly. The job should have gone to a great manager, a positive tactician with charisma.
Managers who are world class manage top clubs all the time. Madrid only line up world class managers. City and Chelsea go for European standard managers. We haven't and the romanticism has failed to pay dividends.
It's insane to suggest that a manager should not be judged until he builds his own squad. If he's not capable of getting the best out of players how can you possibly let him overhaul the team? What if he fails then, you're left with a squad that isn't good enough and employ a manager who will spend another £200m to overhaul the squad to make it his? And then again and again? Is this the United way?
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