What position do you think United should be in this season, before you say enough is enough? 8th, 9th, 10th? or any manager should have a free reign on their first year, regardless of performance and result?
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Moyes So Far!
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What position do you think United should be in this season, before you say enough is enough? 8th, 9th, 10th? or any manager should have a free reign on their first year, regardless of performance and result?
It's not United way. You see, if we finish 7th or 8th next season we should also keep him. It's in United philosophy to give managers time and Moyes deserves at least 4 seasons to build his team.
Aye. The seven game losing streak, rebounding from the relegation places to finish the league in 13th place, losing 5-1 to a newly promoted very poor City team after 3 years in charge might be a reason for whining I suppose but it has nothing like the credibility the Moyes haters have
Aye. The seven game losing streak, rebounding from the relegation places to finish the league in 13th place, losing 5-1 to a newly promoted very poor City team after 3 years in charge might be a reason for whining I suppose but it has nothing like the credibility the Moyes haters have
Now now....Let's all calm down....There is no point in turning on each other!
We need to focus all our energy and attention on the real enemy if we are to get out of this mess....Phil Neville and his gimpy ear piece!!!!
Yes. Football's a fickle game, a stroke of luck, a poor refereeing decision, a key injury or two can mean the difference between the gutter and the stars. Anyone sacking a manager with less than 12 months under his belt understands nothing of the game, unless there is some major disciplinary reason for the sacking.
"Understands nothing of the game". Not bigoted at all.I know Wibble is a smart man. It just feels like a mod takes turns every day on being this super pro-Moyes, just because. But perhaps it just my lack of sleep brain, thinking that
So Liverpool understood nothing of the game when they sacked Roy Hodgson after less than 12 months under his belt?
There's nothing terribly wrong with sacking a manager within 12 year months if he's looking grossly inept and you don't see the potential for him being good enough. Usually I'd say 12 months is the minimum but exceptional situations do usually lead to exceptional treatment, and that's not just the case with football.
Having said that, I'd sack him at the end of the season.
Having said that, I'd sack him at the end of the season.
I'm sure they regret that every minute of the dayRussian oligarch, Emirati Sheikh, Indian chicken baron or US tycoon looking for somewhere to launder their dodgy cash haul or avoid inheritance taxes having no idea of the game doesn't sound unreasonable to me. Certainly isn't bigotry either but I'll not get into your semantics.
Yeah, agree with that.
Yeah, the implications you can draw from that are far too varied but it does back up what everyone feels about our play.
Sacking Hodgson quickly and going for Rodgers was clearly an excellent decision. So no, sacking someone quickly doesn't always equate to not knowing anything about the game. Sometimes it's just making the right decision.
He's since been appointed England Manager while I don't think John Henry does understand much more about the game than Hicks and Gillett did and the "most knowledgable fans in the world" TM pro King Kenny campaign that eventually ousted Hodgson really worked out well for them.
They didn't go for Rodgers, they let Dalglish take charge and then sacked him also within 2 full seasons.
He was quite clearly out of his depth at Liverpool and being appointed England manager doesn't change that in the slightest. Dalglish was always a relatively short-term option unless he absolutely took off, and Rodgers was a clearly superior manager to Hodgson.
Incidentally, Rodgers last season at Liverpool, that's where you give a manager time when the results aren't all that impressive. When the manager is clearly trying to impose a new philosophy that you have a good idea will come good in time, something that needs time and will have invariable teething problems.
With Moyes, there's nothing. In fact, it's less than nothing, as his only real philosophy involves reducing the game to percentages, something which favours the likes of Everton in a lot of match-ups, but actively hurts the likes of van Persie, starving them of quality chances as cross success rates are so low.
The only reason to be at all optimistic about Moyes at United is to talk in generalities about managers being given time and to criticise the general concept of impatientness. Because when you look at the specifics, they scream "out of his depth, and badly so".
This, a million times this.
We're shown nothing of a longterm ideology being imposed, not a glimpse, nor have I ever seen one in his decade at Everton, we're currently asked to have blind faith and criticised for airing concern.
The worrying thing for me is how long the manager has let a failed way of playing go on. It's been clear well before Christmas that we won't be successful playing this manner of football with these players, you need to be pro active in this game and we just seem to be ambling along doing the same thing every week in the slight hope things will click. Moyes seems to be waiting for a clear out and a chance to sign players as his main focus when the football and results should be top if the list, I fear he just hasn't got a clue how to play any other way and even now if we start to play well "differently" it will taken far to long for that realisation to hit home.
Oh yeah, this post has it all.
Just fire his sorry ass and get in Guus Hiddink to steady the ship. He's 67 but he's good for a couple of years until Mourinho and Roman have clashed again.(*)
* One can only hope Sir Bobby has resigned from the board by then due to age.
So were they wrong to sack Hodgson quickly?
Or would the sacking have become correct if it was Rodgers and not Kenny who followeD?
Oh yeah he's doing great with England and that's totally related to whether Liverpool made the right choice.
Simple question, were they wrong to sack Hodgson at the time they did?
This! And also, some of his comments have made me believe he's just "happy" to be here.
Examples include:
After winning the CS, "Well, what can I say, it's a proud day for me, my family and anyone I've worked with. I'd like to dedicate this to Sir Alex as he put the work in that made this possible"
RVP went on later to remark that Moyes was stunned that the players didn't celebrate winning the community shield
After coming from behind to beat Stoke, "Well, it's a great honour and a great feeling to be apart of a one of those famous Manchester United comebacks"
They say that he doesn't tell his players the tactics till match day....So we do not work on tactics in training? Right so how are we supposed to improve our play?
And trust me, I do not want to be having a go at the man. He is a good manager and seems to be an all round decent bloke. I just don't think he's right for us and can cut it at this level
Moyes so far?
I can't imagine any other manager doing any worse, both in terms of point and style.
He took over the runaway Champions and are now sitting in 7th and out of both domestic cups.
Let's be honest, that's beyond our wildest nightmares.
So yeah, not so great.
I can't imagine any other manager doing any worse, both in terms of point and style.
He took over the runaway Champions and are now sitting in 7th and out of both domestic cups.
Let's be honest, that's beyond our wildest nightmares.
So yeah, not so great.
If this was his mid term report in school, the headmaster would be phoning his parents to come in for a chat
My feeling is that things will obviously improve. That's a given. But I dont see him as ever been going good enough based on what I've seen so far.
If we stick with him, really hope he does.
If we stick with him, really hope he does.
I agree. I have changed my mind during the last few days.. Moyes is finished. I'd be extremely happy to be proven wrong, but I just can't see it.
This just cracks me up.I don't want it to be the case, but he really does seem to be our Roy Hodgson.
I don't want it to be the case, but he really does seem to be our Roy Hodgson.
Yeah. A Manchester United manager should come in and instantly take control, not be overawed by the club or just happy to be here.
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I'm now over the anger at the poor result at the weekend, and back in the 'give him time' camp.
Impossible to say whether or not he'll turn this around, but when I think back to Everton - they were pretty much hard to beat, we just have to have the vision that he can get us playing better than we are, in the style he wants.
The season is a right off, so anything better than 7th is going to be a bonus really. A good result this weekend against a deflated Fulham, followed by a competent performance against the bubbles, then we can definately get something out of the Arsenal game. Imagine what a good performance and 3 points at the Emirates would do for the squad?
He really has got no excuses now with RVP, Rooney fit and Mata in the squad. I'm in the Fellaini will come good now he's supposidely fit and recovered.
A front 4 of RVP up front, Rooney in the hole and Mata/Adnan either side cutting in, with Rafael and Evra overlapping - that is what he wants, and he now has it at his disposal, we could start to see the shape of the way he wants us to play. I personally don't think he does want to play with out and out wingers, but injuries and the squad has kind of dictated that he does.
Lets see on Sunday eh?
COME ON MOYES!
Impossible to say whether or not he'll turn this around, but when I think back to Everton - they were pretty much hard to beat, we just have to have the vision that he can get us playing better than we are, in the style he wants.
The season is a right off, so anything better than 7th is going to be a bonus really. A good result this weekend against a deflated Fulham, followed by a competent performance against the bubbles, then we can definately get something out of the Arsenal game. Imagine what a good performance and 3 points at the Emirates would do for the squad?
He really has got no excuses now with RVP, Rooney fit and Mata in the squad. I'm in the Fellaini will come good now he's supposidely fit and recovered.
A front 4 of RVP up front, Rooney in the hole and Mata/Adnan either side cutting in, with Rafael and Evra overlapping - that is what he wants, and he now has it at his disposal, we could start to see the shape of the way he wants us to play. I personally don't think he does want to play with out and out wingers, but injuries and the squad has kind of dictated that he does.
Lets see on Sunday eh?
COME ON MOYES!
Would love it if that happened and suddenly it just clicked.
They banned me, the changed my user name, they tried to humiliate me but my spirit will not be broken. Fight on until he is gone.
It's just 4% and we've had Carrick out for a long period of time compared to 12/13 when he was having a blinder season, how can 'nobody defend him for this' ? Not that I like spraying it to wings all the time, but if anything, this stat shows that style wise, we've hardly changed.
When Fulham puts us to the sword later this week even the mentals will turn on him.
It’s clear the general opinion on Moyes has shifted, for me it was the result against Stoke, for others it’s our style of play, poor results or league position, it doesn’t matter what the main reason is, it’s the fact that there are so many reasons that is the major worry. The one dimensional football even though we had three of the best forward players in Europe on the pitch, bringing on Welbeck when we had Fletcher on the bench, playing Smalling instead of Rafael, still playing football to the wings, and deservedly getting beaten against Stoke of all teams, a team who had got a massive one point from their last 6 games.
I usually don’t look at stats as they tend not to give a true reflection of what’s going on, but it’s hard to argue against them this season. Some are saying it’s not his team, he needs the summer to rebuild, and personally I don’t want our club to become a Moyes team. If he can’t get the current champions to play well against, let alone beat the likes of Stoke or Sunderland then I just can see what he is going to do with an extra 3 or 4 players.
The comparison to Fergie’s start at United have to stop, they are not comparable in the slightest, and its cringe worthy to do so.
I usually don’t look at stats as they tend not to give a true reflection of what’s going on, but it’s hard to argue against them this season. Some are saying it’s not his team, he needs the summer to rebuild, and personally I don’t want our club to become a Moyes team. If he can’t get the current champions to play well against, let alone beat the likes of Stoke or Sunderland then I just can see what he is going to do with an extra 3 or 4 players.
The comparison to Fergie’s start at United have to stop, they are not comparable in the slightest, and its cringe worthy to do so.
I am willing to put my house on that this won't be the case. Unless our best front 4 all get injured this week, then we will smash the s**t out of FFC....mark my words...i've seen it in the burning ashes!
I will not argue with your seer techniques. Plus Fulham may be the one Premier League club that's is in deeper shit than us.
If you really look at Moyes with open eyes what do you see? I see the walking, talking antithesis of everything Manchester United Football Club stands for. I don't see confidence. I don't see swagger. I don't see fearlessness. I don't see the "We'll take on the entire world" mentality. All I see is a guy with empty eyes who oozes defeatism and fear. All I see is a beaten and crushed man. He needs to be removed today before he destroys the soul of this great football club.
Wouldn't mind a technical assistant manager or just coach being brought in to work on some of these playing issues, someone like Rene or Queiroz brought back to work underneath Moyes, let's be honest our football has been slowly regressing since Queiroz left, the problem is I think Moyes is too stubborn to relinquish even 5% control of how he wants to conduct his training.
Well it will all come down to what he wants to do against Fulham, we have Arsenal coming up and the last thing we need is RVP getting injured before that. He wont play him against Fulham.
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