I do not think United will spend as much as 120 mill, but if we want to become a top team again I feel we will need at least 2 top class midfielders A central defender and a Left full back. Unless we have fantastic scouts we could end up paying up to 30 million for a top midfielder. Central defenders do not grow on trees these days so at least another 20 mill, a top class left bck would set us back say maybe 20 mil unless we have top class scouts that can identify this And sign a guy that no one else has noticed. So maybe 100 mill needed. Wait and see if the club puts its money on the pitch or not.£120m? Even City and PSG wont spend that much. What makes you think we are going to? We dont have that much.
Moyes So Far!
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The club wont spend 100m this summer (unless a big amount of it will get refounded by sales of players).
If we have a net spend of 50m it would be excellent and is up to Moyes to use them wisely. You can't expect to give to any manager 200m in such a short period. We don't have the money (and the will) to do that. We are rich but we don't have a sugar dady as our owner.
Everyone is calling for signings to make us 'world class again'. But we can improve and at the very minimum, look like a team again by just shifting our tactical mindset. Stop hoofing the ball forward. Stop relying on crosses and add a little variety and unpredictability. Work on the linkup play and get the players to read Mata's incisive runs. The main problem right now isn't even a lack of a midfield. It is the approach to our game.
I do believe that the club will have money coming in too, I feel Cleverley, Valencia, Evra,maybe Wellbeck, Young (I wish) Vidic, will either be sold or leave.
If there is a very big cull then obviously we'll spend more, but I think that we will go around 50m net spend which is very fair.
But we certainly have a midfield that can frighten no one except ourselves. That needs to change big time this summer.
There is talk of a major cull and a 150 mill war chest, ok we have bought Mata since then so maybe it is now a 113 mill warchest. But we will also be selling players. United need at least 2 top midfielders, a Center back and a left full back. That will not come cheap if you are after the needed players.
It needs but if people really think that we will go and sign two very expensive midfielders, and then an expensive left back and then possibly a new expensive center back and an expensive winger they are a bit deluded. No-one works like that, even the likes of City and PSG usually don't do that in a window.
With the money we have (and that from transfers) I think that Moyes will have at-most money for two top players and maybe another lesser one. If he wants more then he should go for someone cheaper like Rodgers has done with Sturridge, Coutinho, Sakho, Toure etc.
People who are expecting 4-5 Matas in the summer are going to get dissapointed. It doesn't make sense anyway, in that case we should hire Roberto Mancini cause he has proven that if he'll spend 200m he'll eventually win the league.
If he loses against Fulham do we all agree to sack him?
@Im red2, you seem to be forgetting the likely departure of Kagawa, Hernandez and Nani in your calculation.
We may end up with an improved central midfield once all is said and done but have little to no depth elsewhere. I don't think Rio will continue on in football the way things are going, in which case i think the defence could do with keeping Vidic around as his experience should be harnessed if possible.
Moyes has to stand up be counted for his coaching ability else he might as well sit in his office at Carrington and play Football Manager everyday.
We may end up with an improved central midfield once all is said and done but have little to no depth elsewhere. I don't think Rio will continue on in football the way things are going, in which case i think the defence could do with keeping Vidic around as his experience should be harnessed if possible.
Moyes has to stand up be counted for his coaching ability else he might as well sit in his office at Carrington and play Football Manager everyday.
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No you have me totally wrong, I am a fan of Manchester United, this club is up there with Real Madrid as largest football club in the world we are currently sitting mid table in England. With a midfield of Carrick, Cleverley, and Jones, Giggs(great player but now too old) Fletcher(should be played more) and I forget the others. Which team do you think is going to worry about playing against those players? United need to spend mega big this next window. And yes under the prices of today that will mean it will take at least 100 mill to get this team back challenging for the title in England. And not just money will do it.
Agree with this. We need much more than money. In order for us to be succesful in short term I think that a vision is much more important than money. And then it would be nice if we get some good players at cheap (there are always some cheap players right there, just ask BVB and Juve). Maybe big investment is needed but that will come gradually. Not 4-5 world class players in a single summer. If we get a world class player and another two good players on the summer I'll be delighted.
I agree Kagawa could be on his way out
He came to a team that played a totally different style than he needed, Vidic being around could only be a good thing. I just hope United use their financial muscle as then they can compete with anyone. Ok, City got bought by some rich cuntry, and have unlimited resources. Let's face it that was all that could get City up where they are. But United still ahve the finances to compete with anyone. You cannot buy all the players no matter how much cash you have, and you can still only put 11 on the pitch.Yes, I wonder sometimes, what kind of scouts do teams like BVB, Athletico Madrid and certain other teams have? They always seem to have great players coming through and then sell them for millions, only for the next player coming through to be almost as good if not better. Look at all the players that Athletico Madrid had over the last 10 years. Sporting Lisbon, Dortmund. Who is scouting for these teams?
Although its not all big Dave's fault, after all sir alex is the one that was in charge when the future of our midfield left the club, the man simply has to be doing better than he is. He just has to go. Horrible stuff by him since the start of the season, absolutely horrible. Doubt any of the other prem managers could've done a worse job.
With this season being a total wipe-out, the good thing is that next season will begin with such low expectations that it can only help Moyes.
You would had SAF sacked before he won anything.
I read that as I would have had SAF in the sack before he won anything
No I wouldn't have because quite simply, in his first full season in charge we finished 2nd..The highest we had finished in 9 years at that point and he made a big improvement on our league standing at the end of the season, in which, he arrived.
The following season was a disappointment alright looking at it...The following season, he won the FA cup. A trophy that was still very prestigious at the time and our first trophy in 5 years.....Fergie also broke the Rangers/Celtic dominance in Scotland and won a european trophy by beating Madrid. He was obviously a highly talented manager.
And if you're counter argument to my original post is "you would have wanted Fergie gone" then, there really is no hope
I don't see how that can perceived as positive to anyone but Moyes.
I read that as I would have had SAF in the sack before he won anything
No I wouldn't have because quite simply, in his first full season in charge we finished 2nd..The highest we had finished in 9 years at that point and he made a big improvement on our league standing at the end of the season, in which, he arrived.
The following season was a disappointment alright looking at it...The following season, he won the FA cup. A trophy that was still very prestigious at the time and our first trophy in 5 years.....Fergie also broke the Rangers/Celtic dominance in Scotland and won a european trophy by beating Madrid. He was obviously a highly talented manager.
And if you're counter argument to my original post is "you would have wanted Fergie gone" then, there really is no hope
SAF is a fine figure of a man but ......
I though my argument was quite obvious. If you make knee jerk sackings you will never know if you have employed the next Kenny Dalglish or the next SAF.
I don't think anyone is knee-jerk reacting really. If that was the case we'd have called for Moyes' head when we lost to Everton and Newcastle on the bounce. The fact is it hasn't improved, and I fail to see Moyes improving. For what it's worth I'd still give him to the end of the season, mainly for lack of a better option but also to give him the chance to see if he can even improve on a disastrous season. I don't think he will though.SAF is a fine figure of a man but ......
I though my argument was quite obvious. If you make knee jerk sackings you will never know if you have employed the next Kenny Dalglish or the next SAF.
It's not even a positive for Moyes. He would have more chance of long-term success if he had made a winning start.
SAF is a fine figure of a man but ......
I though my argument was quite obvious. If you make knee jerk sackings you will never know if you have employed the next Kenny Dalglish or the next SAF.
While that is true and while I do hope, for his sake if not ours, he does pull it off, I've seen nowt in Moyes in 12 years in the premiership that suggests he is capable of handling this job...I've never rated him as high as others have. Even before he became United boss, I was having a go. Sometimes on here....For me, it's not a kneejerk....But yes, SAF
Not even comparable. Let me explain the differences:
Fergie United were floundering and near relegation, when Atkinson was dismissed.
Moyes United were champions and that too by a huge margin
Fergie even at time of taking over had pedigree, having tasted incredible success both in Scotland and in Europe.
Moyes at time of takeover has no pedigree except decent midtable management and that he is Scottish.
Fergie started ringing in the changes, eliminating the drinking culture, reigning in the like of Norman Whiteside, Paul Mc Grath etc. Fans took the shakeup as a positive sign.
Moyes meh ???
Fergie first transfer window bought in Steve Bruce, Jim Leighton, Brian McClair etc. Positive transfers who immediately contributed to the team.
Moyes first transfer window was disastrous, where we ended up under bidding top players and ended up over paying for a decent player.
Fergie had a reputation for a firebrand disciplinarian who can take the team by its horns and can shake things up.
Moyes meh???
Even without success, Fergie had enough qualities and did stuff that deserved giving him a longer time..... and that Moyes has done nothing to warrant.
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Well, your answer to the "meh" are as follows,
Rio being a insolent little prat, Smalling dressing as a suicide bomber and getting hammered at a house party and now, to top it off, Beavis and Butthead do Newcastle tonight
I find it extremely disrespectful to the club and it's fans that these players can blatantly do feck all for us this year and but will breach club, not Moyes, rules!! Especially them two arses tonight
What's the logical reason for this? Is one year time not enough to judge one's capability? Is sacking people/manager after one year of work deemed 'knee jerk' in your professional opinion?
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Don't worry, the club will blame the World Cup for making it difficult to sign the players they are targeting.
Couldn't agree more! Cleverley seems like a proper idiot. I don't mind him being as untalented (for a United player) as he is but his pretentiousness and delusions of grandeur are absolutely annoying. Should get rid of him, regardless of what happens with Moyes. I have a bit more time for Welbeck but he needs to sort himself out soonish too.Well, your answer to the "meh" are as follows,
Rio being a insolent little prat, Smalling dressing as a suicide bomber and getting hammered at a house party and now, to top it off, Beavis and Butthead do Newcastle tonight
I find it extremely disrespectful to the club and it's fans that these players can blatantly do fcuk all for us this year and but will breach club, not Moyes, rules!! Especially them two arses tonight
Thats my point. He will be able to manage expectations by next season.
Ok, I might exaggerate a bit. But the point still remains. Getting 'his player' in is only a small part of the solution. If he doesn't deliver the result, even 'his players' might turn against him, and the current situation will repeat itself.
If Moyes lets this shit go unpunished he should be sacked.
Thought his punishment of them was quite apt to be honest
The stuff people are willing to sling at Moyes as reasons for him being ousted are getting increasingly pathetic. It's not like Giggs, Becks, Rooney, Keane, Ronaldo or virtually any other United player you'd care to name with the possible exception of Scholes hasn't at some stage screwed up in public and been vilified in the press over it. Fergie very rarely dealt with it publicly though and I doubt Moyes will either although the club featuring these 2 in this photo 3 days after their night out suggests he may at least have a sense of humour.
But the things are different now though. Fergie was at least a proven winner, even though it was in Scotland, he still won the league and also in Europe. But what has Moyes shown to deserve another year?
I'd say that what Moyes did at Preston was reason enough to give him time to see if he can turn things around. He took them from the brink of relegation when he arrived to the Division 2 play off in his first year, won Division 2 in his second full season and took the same squad to the Division 1 play off final the following year where he missed out on promotion to the Premier league against Bolton.
People may try and belittle what he achieved at Everton despite their budgetary constraints but his fellow managers have made him league manager of the year 3 times, only Fergie with 4 awards has lifted it more times. Clearly football managers, other than Fergie, think he knows what he is doing and is doing at least some of it well. He may never win an award from people that play Football Manager but I'd count that as a blessing too
BTW even Frank O'Farrell got 18 months and he really was dreadful. We are not a team that have ever sacked managers after a few months and I for one don't want to ever see us become one. I've laughed far too long and hard at the likes of City, Chelsea and Liverpool to ever want to see us turn into the same kind of shambles.
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They already losing their best player 3 years in a row (Kagawa, Goetze, Lewandowski). I'm not saying he definitely move, but if he doesn't have any reason to leave Dortmund because they're so wonderful, then at least we can make that reason for him. I maintain that United are still a bigger club than Dortmund, at least on par with Munich. Stability and improvement at one club all good reason for him to stay, but so are challenging at an elite club with bigger budget and prestige.
We should at least try to get him if push come to shove. And oh regarding Madrid offer for him, maybe he's just a reasonable bloke and see what a circus Madrid was. United was a different beast.
Of course it is. Unless they have done something specifically worthy of disciplinary action.
Just what all of the knee jerkers were saying just before we won the FA Cup. I don't think.
Maybe at that time, it could have been genuine whining, but surely this time around it has more credibility!
There's no logic behind it. Two seasons is the prerequisite for judging Moyes because woe to him who creeps through the serpent windings of knee-jerkery to consider what every other club would do. But we're Manchester United and we're morally better. Apparently.
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