If he got sacked tonight I'd become excited for the final stretch of the season.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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It's not even about winning the games for me right now, I just want to see a good performance. There's no sign of us playing well, or our attacking players clicking, or anything really.
I think you're chasing a red herring looking at it like that.
Also, attacking through wide positions isn't the issue - it's the lack of variation.
We're very predictable, which you could see for yourself without statistics telling you so. It makes it easier to defend against.
City, for example, regularly stretches play and relies on their wide players to create opportunities - but they use it as a means to give Silva, Touré and Aguero space through the middle. Their movement and variation makes it difficult to resist. If you try to play it compact they'll switch play and hit you through Zabaleta or Kolarov overlapping. If you try to get close to their wide players, they'll wander into the middle to find space and overload your midfield area. If you try to push up, Aguero and Negredo will run into the channels.
Whereas we slowly moves the ball out wide, before relying on someone to get a cross in, usually Valencia.
Our games this year
United 1-2 Spurs PL
United 1-2 Swansea FAC
Sunderland 2-1 United LC
United 2-0 Swansea PL
Chelsea 3-1 United PL
United 2-1 Sunderland LC (beaten on penalties)
United 2-0 Cardiff PL
Stoke 2-1 United PL
Played - 8
Won - 3 (2 if you include the cup game as a loss)
Lost 5 (6 see above)
Drawn - 0
For - 11
Against - 12
That's terrible form in anybody's books, in fact if they were all league games it wouldn't be far off relegation form. I've said it before,mbut it's the fact we are going backwards that's worrying, with no sense of direction and one dimensional football I can only see it getting worse.
United 1-2 Spurs PL
United 1-2 Swansea FAC
Sunderland 2-1 United LC
United 2-0 Swansea PL
Chelsea 3-1 United PL
United 2-1 Sunderland LC (beaten on penalties)
United 2-0 Cardiff PL
Stoke 2-1 United PL
Played - 8
Won - 3 (2 if you include the cup game as a loss)
Lost 5 (6 see above)
Drawn - 0
For - 11
Against - 12
That's terrible form in anybody's books, in fact if they were all league games it wouldn't be far off relegation form. I've said it before,mbut it's the fact we are going backwards that's worrying, with no sense of direction and one dimensional football I can only see it getting worse.
The tiem for full and unconditional support was last summer, give him the cash and then take a watching brief over the following months to see how he fairs. Whilst Moyes and Woodward share blame for what eventually occurred in that first transfer window, the manager has demonstrated little capability of being able to improve even decent players and that must now come into play IMO. Dave is if anything too secure in his position, too complacent that he can buy his way out of trouble rather than working to that end [a laziness which would never have answered the purpose at Everton].
Well, the money is only part of the issue. He may spend the money on good players, the right players, but fail to get the best out them - like he's failed to do so with the players he already has. It won't be a total disaster as another manager will be able to get more out of them.
Yeah, but what do you do? If he comes to the board and says he wants to sell X and Y? Refuse? Say he wanted to sign a player that costs a lot of money, but not a huge amount, say 25m, do we say no?
I agree that he's failed to get the best out of what he already has. Which is part of the reason I would like to see him replaced. Going through a situation where he's at the club but only partly backed would lead us nowhere. It'll just delay the inevitable.
Yeah, I've already written the season off in terms of results and achievements. The only reason to keep Moyes at the job for another year would have to be clear progress, good football, something clicking. If not, I just don't see any reason why he should stay other than 'We're United and we're great that say, so better than anyone else'.
Everything is going to plan. Fergie's successor was always going to fail. Moyes is a patsy.
I just got a feeling that regardless of who he buys in the summer it won't make much of a difference, i don't think he has the ability to inspire or has the tactical aptitude to take us to the next level.
The club will have to decide if they want to give him £100m plus to spend or cut their losses early on and give the money to a more deserving manager.
The club will have to decide if they want to give him £100m plus to spend or cut their losses early on and give the money to a more deserving manager.
The board could impose an age restriction on sales barring one or at the most two exceptions, if he wants to trim the squad then restrict such departures to the older players.
Alternatively we might reduce some of the complacency by infomring him that his transfer budget is performance related, shatter this possible illusion that the worse he does the more money we'll throw at the problem.
Either way let's not sell half of the family silver to fund each and everyone of Moyes' ideas.
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I somehow doubt he feels calm and secure in his job...
This. I feel like most of the opportunities we make come from set pieces (less so recently, but at the start of the season I feel like almost all of our goals came from them).
Man Utd play through centre of pitch: 09-10: 30% (5th in PL); 10-11: 29% (11th in PL); 11-12: 30% (6th); 12-13: 28% (8th); 13-14: 24% (20th)
Cheers.
What is defined as play through the center of the pitch? I'm surprised we're ranked 6th and 8th in the last 2 seasons... I don't recall much play through the center.
What is defined as play through the center of the pitch? I'm surprised we're ranked 6th and 8th in the last 2 seasons... I don't recall much play through the center.
Is it surprising when the manager actually comes out after a loss and says we did well as we got to the byline 9-10 times? Its how he wants us to play. Combine that with the fact that our wingers have been piss poor for a while and you realize how mental this is.
Have a weakness in the team? Ensure you play to it.
Have some of the best technical players through the center like RVP, Mata, Rooney, Januzaj, Kagawa? Make sure they pass it out wide to Valencia and Young to whip it in.
We definitely tried to get a passing game going last season, we even went with a narrow diamond a few times, remember?
The only way we will improve is to drop the wingers and play Kagawa and Mata. Full backs can still provide width if needed.
Interestingly despite how bad the season has been Moyes is sitting at a win percentage only bettered by Fergie. Judging by the comments in here I was expecting to see it sitting much much lower. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Manchester_United_F.C._managers
So 76% of our attacks have come from out wide this season, compared to 72% last season. Also worth noting that 72% of Arsenal's attacks and 73% of Everton's attacks come from out wide, (making them 13th and 15th in the PL for attacks through the middle, while Aston Villa are 2nd and WBA are 5th), and no side from the top 4 in last season's 'attacks through the middle' table finished in the top 4 of the actual Premier League table.
Being top of that table isn't wanted either, though. Ideally, we'd be situated between 8th and 12th.
All the stats do is prove we've a lack of diversity in our attacking play under Moyes. There's no dimensions to his attacking tactics.
Norwich, Palace, and Fulham are all in the middle of that table, so were Stoke and Wigan last season. Chelsea are currently 3rd.
It is indeed a load of bollocks.
The stats yes. Our style being outdated and focused around our weakness isnt though.
The stat isn't a science. Admittedly, it doesn't prove an awful lot on its own. It is, however, a further indication of what we already know: our lack of football through the middle is obvious. Our reliance on wing play is unproductive, stale and simply not working.
I dont know if thats entirely true though. The stats dont show you the trend in use of crossing. It doesnt show whats been happening in the last few games. it doesnt show if there have or have not been any changes.
I agree with that. The lack of productivity from our wide play is certainly a major concern, as is our team cohesiveness in general. The stat, which has been quoted a lot in the last month since it was published in an article on the Sky Sports website, is more-or-less drivel though, and certainly not a reliable indicator of successful football.
I suspect it's too imprecise a tool to use. Some teams attack through the middle because they hoof the ball to the big bloke stood in the centre, and they don't have enough flair or attacking intent to use the wings. In other teams it means they actually play their best football on the floor and use each other to create space and movement at the heart of the opposition defence.
In our case though I think it just backs up that gut feeling that the "get it wide, get to the byline, cross" approach is not only deliberate, it's more pronounced than ever, despite us having players who can use the ball another way.
Moyes is gonna sort the shit out starting against Fulham, and we're going on a run of 10 WINS! Come onnnnn
... and some teams just don't have a high proportion of their attacks coming through the middle, relative to their peers; Arsenal and Everton this season, for example, or indeed Bayern Munich (8th in the Bundesliga for 'attacks through the middle', and 1st for crosses per game) and Atletico Madrid (12th in La Liga for 'attacks through the middle' and 3rd for crosses).
Our problem isn't that we attack a lot from out wide (other top teams do that, and many awful sides avoid it), it's that our attacks from out wide are proving to be totally ineffective. We simply must improve the quality of our play in the final 3rd.
That should go in the unpopular opinions thread.
Or the 'ridiculous football forum posts' thread.
Would want to see where we are in terms of rankings of most crosses for the same time period to form a better picture.
I don't have the stats but someone I know had a look at it and said a couple of weeks ago we were up about 1.5 crosses a game over last season. That in itself isn't much (though there have been some crazy stats like 46 crosses against Spurs or 33 at Stoke, in a windy game), but if you add the fact we go less through the center, you get a team that has less ideas and is more predictable, which makes its crosses less dangerous than previously.
With respect to the crosses stats do they differentiate between crosses from out wide and balls cut back from inside the penalty box?. The reason i ask is because the 2 are quite different and also come from different buildups. I noticed in the Stoke game that we had more balls being cutback from inside the penalty box. Half of those come from balls played through from more central positions to players making forward runs. That in itself comes from more central build up play. Some of the cutback balls from inside the penalty box did come from wide build up play as well.
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