Moyes So Far!

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Mourinho make so much sense it baffles me that we didn't go for him. Not only his confidence and and swagger reminds me of Fergie, he's already experienced with the English game and media.

Klopp would be my second choice. Title winning experince, good record in Europe. He must've relished the opportunity to manage a club of our stature. Reminds me a bit of when Fergie when he start at United tbh
 
digitalnirvana said:
Serious question

What is the timeline for deciding "failure" (if anything below top 4 is the definition of failure)

Because based on this season failure is a certainty not a possibility (not because we say it or we don't - but because the club's financial forecasts were based on certain criteria which will not be met)

Next season? Half next season? Next season and the next to that? What is the point when the jury's out?

Again - not a wum, genuinely curious to know the majority view
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I can only imagine the plan was to let Moyes have his first season to assess his squad; keep those he like and get rid of the ones he dislikes. While doing this, he was to make sure we stayed competitive and would have the financial backing should he need immediate reinforcement.
At the end of the season, the goal is to have qualified for Champions League and no pressure on him bringing in titles. Should we fail to qualify, then that the first failure for everyone involved.

The second season should, in theory, be much tougher, with a more aggressive approach to squad tuning and end of the season goals. Failure past this point should be indicative enough to the board that they'd really consider getting rid.
 
Siorac said:
The press was all over Villas-Boas whose side was (still is) above the champions in the table.

Didn't help him much, mind you. Certainly seemed to light no fire under his arse.
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Some journalists have began to turn. Your man Miguel Delaney has pretty much said Moyes isn't up to it.
 
reelworld said:
I can't help but falling back on why Ferguson was successful. On this day and age, where players ego as big as their paycheck, he managed to get them to set aside their ego and work towards the same direction. No wonder that he was invited to give lectures at Harvard. It's a skill that can be transferred to any other job.
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Exactly. You don't need to see the work of 7 months, to tell whether someone is a leader who command respect. Leadership still can be learn, but just as with talent, the likes of Anderson won't be able to reach Iniesta's level, even if they train 24/7.
 
reelworld said:
Klopp would be my second choice. Title winning experince, good record in Europe. He must've relished the opportunity to manage a club of our stature. Reminds me a bit of when Fergie when he start at United tbh
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People who say this are either arrogant or don't have any idea about Klopp.

I am not saying that it is impossible to hire him, but at the moment it is as difficult as signing Messi. He's at BVB to stay and make a dynasty. Maybe in a few years if things don't go right he'll change his decision, but as of now, he is a more impossible choice than Pep.
 
Isotope said:
(some of) The team Moyes seems like a rather angry bunch.
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I'm not even team Moyes, if you'd read my posts you'd have realised that.

I'm not on either side at the moment, I don't know if Moyes is the man or not yet. I don't see how anyone's jumped to a conclusion either way yet. He could be the man, he could not be the man.

And yes, the people stuck in the middle are getting quite pissed off, naturally.
 
KiD CaNtO said:
Some journalists have began to turn. Your man Miguel Delaney has pretty much said Moyes isn't up to it.
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Good then. If he is on pressure maybe he will try to do smoething else which might be good. Even if it backfires, I doubt it could be worse.

As it is, he simply doesn't look to bother about changing anything.
 
Tomalonge said:
If that's how you feel then that's fine, I won't get in the way, the problem stems from when I get insulted for thinking how I think and the people demanding that their way is the only way people should think.
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Perhaps you should do an irony check before your hissy fit.

Tomalonge said:
12 pages dedicated to watching Moyes' sack.

fcuking perverts.
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Tomalonge said:
Anyone else getting sick of people predicting the future and presenting it as fact?
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Tomalonge said:
I'm listening to the side not forcing their idiotic predictions.
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Tomalonge said:
Twats, I'm out.
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Tomalonge said:
I'm not even team Moyes, if you'd read my posts you'd have realised that.

I'm not on either side at the moment, I don't know if Moyes is the man or not yet. I don't see how anyone's jumped to a conclusion either way yet. He could be the man, he could not be the man.

And yes, the people stuck in the middle are getting quite pissed off, naturally.
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I respect everyone's opinion on Moyes but I find this bit odd. Based on his time at Everton and what he's shown so far at united (transfer market, tactics, motivation etc) it's not absurd to be able to form an opinion.
 
soapythecat said:
Guys, it's ok. Let me explain.....

In 89 I bought a United mug, souvenir toy and key ring. I've used the key ring pretty much every day since and had the mug and souvenir placed together since. Whenever I moved I placed the mug and souvenir in different places until results picked up.
I firmly believe that I alone have been the reason behind many, many success over the years (and a few defeats)....not Fergie.
So, since Moyes took over these 'lucky charms' were useless as they were all attached to Fergie. Therefore, since the defeat on Saturday, I have paid the superstore a visit and replaced them all.

Relax....I've got this. Season saved and 4th place sorted.
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I am pretty sure that similar logic was applied in the United board room when they decided that Moyes was the right man to succeed Sir Alex

@RTID

Mourinho might be a one off but you don't have to look too far to find a better manager than Moyes. Personally I like Simeone, he has his players going beyond all expectations.
 
Rory 7 said:
IF the season had gone this way under Ferguson, do you think we would have had fans calling for Ferguson to be sacked?
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Probably, yes. That would have been idiotic though as we know Ferguson's quality.

Then again, no season has ever gone this way under Ferguson in the last twenty years. That's probably not a coincidence.
 
Revan said:
People who say this are either arrogant or don't have any idea about Klopp.

I am not saying that it is impossible to hire him, but at the moment it is as difficult as signing Messi. He's at BVB to stay and make a dynasty. Maybe in a few years if things don't go right he'll change his decision, but as of now, he is a more impossible choice than Pep.
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If you think Dortmund is as a big as United you're dreaming. In terms of size we're similar to Munich. You think he's happy to get his best players get poached from him every year?
 
Rory 7 said:
IF the season had gone this way under Ferguson, do you think we would have had fans calling for Ferguson to be sacked?
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I think that's a bit of an unfair comparison to make though mate. Ferguson is entitled to a bad season after the success he's had as you'd have confidence from past history he could get a team back to a high level again and play to what he has done in the past. The same can't be said for Moyes. It's the same with any job, if you've got history of success you have probably earned a "second chance" or more time. Moyes unfortunately hasn't got that, especially at United.

It's the same situation with Moyes now getting off on a bad foot, if he wins the next game 5-0 people will (arguably rightfully) worry that we'll still lose the next one, it's hard to shake the tag. The difference is Ferguson, Mourinho, Guardiola etc have the tag of success.
 
Siorac said:
Probably, yes. That would have been idiotic though as we know Ferguson's quality.

Then again, no season has ever gone this way under Ferguson in the last twenty years. That's probably not a coincidence.
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Its a very interesting debate. I mean if Ferguson hadn't 'fixed the midfield' in the summer we could be in the exact same position.
 
soapythecat said:
Guys, it's ok. Let me explain.....

In 89 I bought a United mug, souvenir toy and key ring. I've used the key ring pretty much every day since and had the mug and souvenir placed together since. Whenever I moved I placed the mug and souvenir in different places until results picked up.
I firmly believe that I alone have been the reason behind many, many success over the years (and a few defeats)....not Fergie.
So, since Moyes took over these 'lucky charms' were useless as they were all attached to Fergie. Therefore, since the defeat on Saturday, I have paid the superstore a visit and replaced them all.

Relax....I've got this. Season saved and 4th place sorted.
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Phew! That's alright then. I feel better now.:)
 
niMic said:
This is an internet discussion forum, everyone is "forcing" their views. The irony part is where you're clearly very offended by people insulting you, when you're not really any better.
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No, I've already pointed out a few posts where I've been happy to agree to disagree with them because their view is put forward and not forced.

I'm offended by the "Think this way or you're a complete moron" crowd on both sides.

Learn to read, and could people also stop picturing me frothing at the mouth in rage? The level of rage is at "eyebrow slightly raised" and hasn't been elevated above that. I can voice dissatisfaction without completely losing my temper, it's a talent.
 
reelworld said:
If you think Dortmund is as a big as United you're dreaming. In terms of size we're similar to Munich. You think he's happy to get his best players get poached from him every year?
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Of course they aren't, though they have a better squad and I think in the next few years will have more chances than us to win trophies. What does it matter if they are as big as us though?

We were a smaller club than Real Madrid 20 years ago (and now at around the same level) but I don't think that Sir Alex would have left us if he had received an offer from them. There are plenty of clubs bigger than Arsenal, but Wenger won't leave them if someone bigger gives him a bigger contract.

Klopp will leave Dortmund if he really thinks that he won't be possible to advance Dortmund more - but as for now - he is there to build a legacy.
 
Rory 7 said:
Its a very interesting debate. I mean if Ferguson hadn't 'fixed the midfield' in the summer we could be in the exact same position.
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Theoretically we could have been on 0 points after 24 games. Though chances for both of them (being on 0 points and being in the exact same position with him in charge) are extremely low. It's not that last year he had Gundogan, Vidal and Schweinsteiger in midfield.
 
soapythecat said:
Guys, it's ok. Let me explain.....

In 89 I bought a United mug, souvenir toy and key ring. I've used the key ring pretty much every day since and had the mug and souvenir placed together since. Whenever I moved I placed the mug and souvenir in different places until results picked up.
I firmly believe that I alone have been the reason behind many, many success over the years (and a few defeats)....not Fergie.
So, since Moyes took over these 'lucky charms' were useless as they were all attached to Fergie. Therefore, since the defeat on Saturday, I have paid the superstore a visit and replaced them all.

Relax....I've got this. Season saved and 4th place sorted.
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:lol:

Quality.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
If anything though, I kind of wish he was getting MORE stick in the press... as opposed to the comparitively light treatment he's been getting so far. It might do good to light a fire under his arse... right now he seems far too sorry for himself.
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I don't really take much notice of the press if I'm honest, so I wouldn't be able to make a comment on that. But if he is getting off lightly, then I'd agree with that.

I have faith in Moyes to turn it around. I'm not sure how he's going to do it but yeah, that's why I'm not a manager.
 
Revan said:
People who say this are either arrogant or don't have any idea about Klopp.

I am not saying that it is impossible to hire him, but at the moment it is as difficult as signing Messi. He's at BVB to stay and make a dynasty. Maybe in a few years if things don't go right he'll change his decision, but as of now, he is a more impossible choice than Pep.
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Most posters seem to have this idea that all top managers will be lining up outside OT for the United job.
 
Tomalonge said:
I'm not even team Moyes, if you'd read my posts you'd have realised that.

I'm not on either side at the moment, I don't know if Moyes is the man or not yet. I don't see how anyone's jumped to a conclusion either way yet. He could be the man, he could not be the man.

And yes, the people stuck in the middle are getting quite pissed off, naturally.
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:lol: Relax, Tom. If you go against the wave, you must prepare to take the hit.
No one can force opinions on you on the internet (unless they are mods, and their rules!).
 
Big Ben Foster said:
Most posters seem to have this idea that all top managers will be lining up outside OT for the United job.
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I think that most managers would be delighted to get United job, but I think that Klopp is one of the very few who wouldn't accept it.

That doesn't mean that - if we sack Moyes - we shouldn't try to get him. Treble his wages, give him a blankcheckue and promise that we won't put clauses in our best players (and tell him that Bayern are cnuts) in order to tempt him. Chances are very unlikely that he'll accept the offer but if there is even a slight chance to get him, we should move heaven and earth to get him. And hell too.
 
soapythecat said:
Guys, it's ok. Let me explain.....

In 89 I bought a United mug, souvenir toy and key ring. I've used the key ring pretty much every day since and had the mug and souvenir placed together since. Whenever I moved I placed the mug and souvenir in different places until results picked up.
I firmly believe that I alone have been the reason behind many, many success over the years (and a few defeats)....not Fergie.
So, since Moyes took over these 'lucky charms' were useless as they were all attached to Fergie. Therefore, since the defeat on Saturday, I have paid the superstore a visit and replaced them all.

Relax....I've got this. Season saved and 4th place sorted.
Click to expand...

:lol: Our Messiah!
 
Revan said:
Of course they aren't, though they have a better squad and I think in the next few years will have more chances than us to win trophies. What does it matter if they are as big as us though?

We were a smaller club than Real Madrid 20 years ago (and now at around the same level) but I don't think that Sir Alex would have left us if he had received an offer from them. There are plenty of clubs bigger than Arsenal, but Wenger won't leave them if someone bigger gives him a bigger contract.

Klopp will leave Dortmund if he really thinks that he won't be possible to advance Dortmund more - but as for now - he is there to build a legacy.
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Really? what trophies are these exactly, can you really see Dortmund not losing players and challenging Bayern for the title?
 
Revan said:
Of course they aren't, though they have a better squad and I think in the next few years will have more chances than us to win trophies. What does it matter if they are as big as us though?

We were a smaller club than Real Madrid 20 years ago (and now at around the same level) but I don't think that Sir Alex would have left us if he had received an offer from them. There are plenty of clubs bigger than Arsenal, but Wenger won't leave them if someone bigger gives him a bigger contract.

Klopp will leave Dortmund if he really thinks that he won't be possible to advance Dortmund more - but as for now - he is there to build a legacy.
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Its all about the individual. Back in the day, there were plenty of bigger clubs then Southampton but Le Tissier sticked to them.
 
TheGame said:
Really? what trophies are these exactly, can you really see Dortmund not losing players and challenging Bayern for the title?
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I think that BVB will be one of the best teams in UCL for the next three years and with their revenue significantly rising in those last years they'll be finally a team who won't sell their best players anymore.

Klopp is also absolutely the best manager in transfer market and always finds some gens. Even if they lose Gundogan - after losing Kagawa, Gotze and Lewandovski - they'll still be a great team. And yes, as stupid as it may look, I can see them challenging Bayern for the title next season. They have had the worst injury crisis I have ever seen in football this year and this won't happen again next season. Also likely, they'll add a bit more depth in their team in the summer.

Their first squad is on the category of Bayern, Madrid, Barca, City and co but their team unfortunately isn't. Klopp is working well though and slowly I don't see a reason why their full squad won't improve.
 
RedTillI'mDead said:
I think you missed the irony! The irony being we could have done with a player like Matic more so than Mata and yet we funded such a player going to Chelsea.

Other than that you are spot on! Mourinho was always the only manager we should have looked to have got. 10+ years of further success, another decade and instead what next. The sad thing about the Moyes situation is who else would you actually get?

Guardiola who has really only proven himself at two clubs with an embarrassment of riches and quality. He might command initial respect, but would he really seem to great without having a great team to start off with. For this reason I would also be surprised if he was even interested in the job. I think he'll always be a manager who goes straight to great established teams, as opposed to a team requiring substantial work.

Simeone, but would he come to the Premiership? Seems to be doing great results with Athletico Madrid, but again the Spanish league is very different to the Premiership. Would he make the transition?

Conte, doing an amazing job at Juve, good eye for talent, knows how to get the best of young players. Might be a good fit if we could get him.

Klopp, solid job with Dortmound, quality tactically. Similar question to Moyes in terms of ability to step-up, but already seems a level or two above.

Bianchi, at Boca Juniors, only coach to win four Copa Libertadores.

Del Bosque, at 63 maybe a touch too old, but only manager to win the Champions League, European Championship and World Cup, but then with the Spanish team he had that should be a given.

So there are options, but not exactly vast and far from any guarantees on any of them. Conte would probably be my choice if we sack Moyes.
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Wasn't Matic signed before the Mata deal, how do you know they weren't going to sign him anyway irrespective of the Mata deal.

Simeone is having a good season and everyone thinks he the best thing since sliced bread. I admit he's doing well but he's still uproven at the top level. Also do people forget his involvement in sending off Beckham? will that be a factor?

Conte, again doing well but the Italian league is weak at the moment and regarding youth, how does he exactly know how to get the best of young players? the first team is made up of signings, Pogba included.

Klopp will not be leaving anytime soon.

Bianchi already managed Athletico Madrid then left after a year, hardly proven in the European game.

Del Bosque has always been under rated however again not exactly long term is it?

Everyone new is a 'good fit' and all this and that, but some of these people are unproven and others won't leave. Then if a new manager fails then what? do we get another one?
 
Revan said:
I think that BVB will be one of the best teams in UCL for the next three years and with their revenue significantly rising in those last years they'll be finally a team who won't sell their best players anymore.

Klopp is also absolutely the best manager in transfer market and always finds some gens. Even if they lose Gundogan - after losing Kagawa, Gotze and Lewandovski - they'll still be a great team. And yes, as stupid as it may look, I can see them challenging Bayern for the title next season. They have had the worst injury crisis I have ever seen in football this year and this won't happen again next season. Also likely, they'll add a bit more depth in their team in the summer.

Their first squad is on the category of Bayern, Madrid, Barca, City and co but their team unfortunately isn't. Klopp is working well though and slowly I don't see a reason why their full squad won't improve.
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I think if they lose those players, they are going to have to improve the squad significantly to challenge Bayern. Rumours were that he was after Kovaecic from Inter, he certainly knows the talent in Europe.
 
TheGame said:
Really? what trophies are these exactly, can you really see Dortmund not losing players and challenging Bayern for the title?
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Well they did win back to back league titles, and only last season bayern reclaimed it. Klopp is there to build Dortmund up to the very top, and to keep them there. He most likely won't stay as long as fergie has for us, but I can see him staying for a decade, maybe even a bit longer and getting them up there. He's on a good wage, playing great football, he has a great team, at a club that has a good history and great fans and a great stadium, in his home country. Why exactly would he want to leave to join a struggling united side? Maybe when he's done with them in 5 years or so, but it's still too soon for him.
 
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