Moyes So Far!

[BennyBlanco]

We've already had this conversation. Senior players not playing for him, no midfield, no backup left back, poor wingers.

So far he has bought a midfielder who has been injured for 90% of the season and his other signing had had 2 games with us.

It's blindingly obvious that we are going to have a big clear out and bring in some top class players. When it happens, it'll be Moyes squad. If it doesn't happen this summer he'll have no excuses next season.

I thought one of the reasons we decided against Mourinho/Pep and others of their ilk, was the theory of them ripping up the current squad and demanding substantial cash for their own style of players,
We seem to have gone for someone who was "safe" to carry on where Fergie left off, except for the fact we're playing so poorly under him it appears we need half the damn side replaced... and we're about to start spending a fortune to keep his head above water, the same fortune we were hoping to save by not apointing "wholesale change Mourinho".

 

[Getsme]

It's blindingly obvious that we are going to have a big clear out and bring in some top class players. When it happens, it'll be Moyes squad. If it doesn't happen this summer he'll have no excuses next season.

Id agree you with and I’d imagine this is the thought of the board. They have gave him plenty of money and made in public that there is plenty more.

My worry with this is he is building his own team and buying his players, by this I mean if he can’t put his stamp on the team with the current squad in preparation for next season then what difference is it going to make next year. I strongly believe that if we saw a style of play or at the very least a direction in which he plans to take us a lot of fans would be slightly less worried.

It’s going to be a massive gamble that will either pay off or set us back for a few years, that’s the worry that a lot of fans have including myself.

 

[Revan]

Capello is 67, Van Gaal 62, Heynckess 68 and retired, Hiddink is 67 and Bielsa I wouldn't be adverse to but is also nearly 60.

Prandelli's club career is about as inspiring as Moyes' and I'm not convinced Simione could be pinched from Atletico.


You then go on to say we should show faith in an unproven manager? That's what I'm doing, giving him the summer to build his own squad.

If you think what he did last summer was bad, try and think of it in the longer term rather than short term fixes. Had Moyes just bought any old players what could that have done in the long term? Without time to see the strengths and weaknesses in this squad he could have bought incorrectly and given the squad even more problems. Some even think that happened with Fellaini but it was obvious we needed a midfielder and he needed someone he trusted.

I think he's sensible to take a season to get a real measure of the squads issues, it's how he addresses them this summer that is the deal maker or breaker for me.


This is just one season in a club that has been here for well over a century. There's been a lot worse years than this. Let's just sit tight and have a bit of blind faith in United for a change.

Here we disagree then. I just don't base anything on blind faith.

I don't even want to talk about the summer cause it has been done to death and likely anyone knows what I think. I don't think that giving a hundred million in the summer to Moyes will be a good idea cause I don't trust him, and if he fails again in the summer and spends a lot of money (like in Fellaini) then the new manager will have it more difficult to take us back into the top. For a start he won't have 150m. You can't give a lot of money to every manager.

It is also clear that we have very different opinions on how much we rate Moyes. You say that you want to have faith in an unproven manager, while I think that Moyes has proved to be very mediocre.

Also, I never thought that longevity is as important as you. If we get a manager even for three years who improve the club, then job well done. If that manager is young and stays longer even better. Prandelli has done more than Moyes, for a start he has managed Italy and send them to the final of European Cup.

I don't think that there is any point to continue our debate as long as Moyes doesn't do something to change your or mine opinion. You think that he is good and maybe will be a good success for us, I think that he is average and at best his success for us will be competing for the fourth trophy in the next few years.

 

[Bestie07]

I must admit that when we decided to go the Moyes route after Ferguson, the cynical side of me thought that it's because Moyes had shown his ability to overachieve on a tight budget and that's what our owners would have liked about him. But the players we have been after since have been anything but cheap.

 

[Siorac]

Ferguson, who was a hundred times the manager Moyes is, couldn't get 'the best' out of Nani, Cleverley, Valencia or Young last season. Why would you expect Moyes to get anything out of them ?

If we don't expect to get anything out of our players then why did we hire him? That's his job, you know. If he can't do it... then what's the point?

Your point about Ferguson is obviously nonsense, considering he got 89 points with this squad and that's with easing up after the title was all but won.

 

[Pexbo]

And if we spend 100m on top class players and Moyes still fails with them, then what? The next manager will spend another 170m on new players to make it 'his' squad?

Managers simply cannot be given a free right with the chequebook if they cannot get even anything remotely decent out of the playing staff they have at their disposal. We can't afford that, we're not an oil club. We need a manager who can get the best out of the players we have. Moyes has to show remarkable, drastic improvement this season, otherwise it's lunacy to entrust him with huge amounts of money.

The club aren't going to let him spend £100m+ incorrectly. It's his squad but you can see how thoughtful (tight) we are with our money. We will strengthen the club and worse case scenario if we spend big on quality players, someone else will come in with a better foundation than Moyes had.

 

[Bestie07]

The good thing about going after players like Mata, Kroos and Reus is that if we get them but even if things don't work out with Moyes, the new manager will come in and surely love to work with players of this caliber.

 

[Kostur]

If we don't expect to get anything out of our players then why did we hire him? That's his job, you know. If he can't do it... then what's the point?

Your point about Ferguson is obviously nonsense, considering he got 89 points with this squad and that's with easing up after the title was all but won.

No, it's not nonsense because I was not talking about the squad ( which you tried to imply here ) but about particular players who underperformed last season and are still underperforming. He won't get anything out of players that have nothing to offer.

 

[Siorac]

If he's really going to be backed like the reports say he is with "4 or 5 Mata's" then I'd say a title challenge is the expectation but you'd settle for top 4 as long as we keep progressing.

So, we have to sign a host of top class players and then still settle for only the top 4. Why are we lowering our expectations so drastically?

 

[Genius Me!]

And if we spend 100m on top class players and Moyes still fails with them, then what? The next manager will spend another 170m on new players to make it 'his' squad?

Managers simply cannot be given a free right with the chequebook if they cannot get even anything remotely decent out of the playing staff they have at their disposal. We can't afford that, we're not an oil club. We need a manager who can get the best out of the players we have. Moyes has to show remarkable, drastic improvement this season, otherwise it's lunacy to entrust him with huge amounts of money.

We all know that vast sums are needed to be spent. Fergie ignored central midfield for years, our wingers are on a downward spiral. Our 2 rock solid centre halfs of the past are getting older and looking on their way out.

He didn't get to make the signings he wanted to this summer, and considering our targets and the signing of Mata, it seems we're going for a real quality team rather than a big average squad that Fergie got the best out of. Okay that's unfair, they weren't average, they were really good but thr other teams at the top were poor and have all strengthened.

I'm not going to jump on Moyes back, i'm going to allow him to bring in the players he wants and see what he does with this team next season.

And yes I expect us to be challenging for the title next season.

 

[Siorac]

The club aren't going to let him spend £100m+ incorrectly. It's his squad but you can see how thoughtful (tight) we are with our money. We will strengthen the club and worse case scenario if we spend big on quality players, someone else will come in with a better foundation than Moyes had.

Fellaini for 27m. Thoughtful indeed.

And who will tell him who to spend the money on? Who will judge what is correct and what is incorrect? Are you saying he'll get a sporting director above him? Nothing suggests that might happen.

 

[Pexbo]

So, we have to sign a host of top class players and then still settle for only the top 4. Why are we lowering our expectations so drastically?

Because you don't buy a title. I'd give him a season to get the team playing together. The following season I would expect the title, don't get me wrong.

 

[sglowrider]

4 or 5 Mata's? To start with, we will have to pay over the odds for these Matas.. do we have £150-£200 million to spend in view of the FFP?

What if he fails then what? Another new manager comes in -- and for sure, none will come in if they have no cash to spend..

If I were the Glazers this summer, I would hedge my bets (especially based on the rapid downturn of events and) give him some cash but not blow the wad on his 4 or 5 Matas this coming summer.

Save like 100 million in the bank to entice a new manager the season after next if Moyes fails... which is looking likely at the moment. In this scenario, we won't get 4 or 5 Matas

 

[Getsme]

The club aren't going to let him spend £100m+ incorrectly. It's his squad but you can see how thoughtful (tight) we are with our money. We will strengthen the club and worse case scenario if we spend big on quality players, someone else will come in with a better foundation than Moyes had.

So if the club don't let him spend the money on the players he wants will it still be his team? The club either have to back him and let him spend the money on who he wants or sack him.

 

[Siorac]

No, it's not nonsense because I was not talking about the squad ( which you tried to imply here ) but about particular players who underperformed last season and are still underperforming. He won't get anything out of players that have nothing to offer.

So it wasn't nonsense, it was simply a pointless post as we were talking about the overall quality of the squad and how he needs to make it his 'own' squad.

You can call Valencia and Young useless, you can say that it's unreasonable to expect Moyes to get anything out of them - but in that case he should fecking stop playing them!

 

[Revan]

If he's really going to be backed like the reports say he is with "4 or 5 Mata's" then I'd say a title challenge is the expectation but you'd settle for top 4 as long as we keep progressing.

1) He won't sign another 4-5 players who'll cost 30-40m pounds. Even Manchester City will struggle to do that.
2) Let say we will. And we spend 200m on them. No-one would settle for top 4 if that is the case. You should win the title by 90+ points after that investment.

 

[Kostur]

So it wasn't nonsense, it was simply a pointless post as we were talking about the overall quality of the squad and how he needs to make it his 'own' squad.

You can call Valencia and Young useless, you can say that it's unreasonable to expect Moyes to get anything out of them - but in that case he should fecking stop playing them!

And this is a fair point that you've made. I'm just saying that you shoudn't expect the impossible from him.

4 or 5 Mata's? To start with, we will have to pay over the odds for these Matas.. do we have £150-£200 million to spend in view of the FFP?

What if he fails then what? Another new manager comes in -- and for sure, none will come in if they have no cash to spend..

If I were the Glazers this summer, I would hedge my bets (especially based on the rapid downturn of events and) give him some cash but not blow the wad on his 4 or 5 Matas this coming summer.

Save like 100 million in the bank to entice a new manager the season after next if Moyes fails... which is looking likely at the moment.

First bolded: nobody cares, FFP is a myth that doesn't exist.

Second, Moyes seems to be aiming for the right players - 4 or 5 Matas as we call them - so the squad will be upgraded for the next manager to come, he won't have to buy as much.

If they don't want to back him up financially and have to 'hedge their bets' then what was the point in hiring them? It's them who decide and nobody else.

 

[jeff_goldblum]

I've sorted of stayed off here since the Stoke loss because I knew the caf would be kicking off but I didn't think it would be this bad. It feels like people were watching a different game to the one I was. We battered Stoke and would have won comfortably if it weren't for poor finishing and a freak deflection and Moyes is getting blasted. I know everyone's a lot more highly strung this season because of our league position and the thought of not being in the Champion's League, but a narrow loss against a team who parked the bus, time wasted and fouled constantly without punishment isn't really enough justification for this level of hysteria.

 

[Pexbo]

Fellaini for 27m. Thoughtful indeed.

And who will tell him who to spend the money on? Who will judge what is correct and what is incorrect? Are you saying he'll get a sporting director above him? Nothing suggests that might happen.

We wouldn't spend £33m on Herrera, we spent £37m on Mata.

That's what I'm talking about. We have a valuation of players because we're sensible with our money and take resale into account.


Regarding Fellaini for £27m, it was a panic buy of sorts. He recognised we needed a midfielder desperately and went for someone he knew and trusted. He recognised that this squad would struggle without another midfielder and considering where we are and Fellaini being out all season he wasn't wrong.

That's not to say Fellaini is the miracle cure but you'd hope we would have done better if he'd have stayed fit and settled into the side. We could have done with him instead of Cleverley against Stoke, that's for sure.

 

[Revan]

The profit everyone thinks they are in for isn't from selling the club though. Nobody is going to spend £2bn+ on a club.

Of course not. A single person won't spend 2b to buy us.

However there might be a lot of people who would be willing to buy a few stocks and Glazers might sell part of the club in that way. So in that case, stocks going down isn't good for them.

 

[Siorac]

Second, Moyes seems to be aiming for the right players - 4 or 5 Matas as we call them - so the squad will be upgraded for the next manager to come, he won't have to buy as much.

If they don't want to back him up financially and have to 'hedge their bets' then what was the point in hiring them? It's them who decide and nobody else.

Yes, this keeps being repeated but this logic is very dangerous. What if the next manager doesn't feel like the squad has been properly upgraded? Will we give him another 100m to spend on his own players? As I said, we simply cannot afford to spend that kind of money every summer.

I maintain that the owners must back the manager financially - if the manager shows he's got what it takes to match expectations here. In that case let him build. They can't show blind faith though. Fans can if they wish, the owners must not.

 

[Genius Me!]

We wouldn't spend £33m on Herrera, we spent £37m on Mata.

That's what I'm talking about. We have a valuation of players because we're sensible with our money and take resale into account.


Regarding Fellaini for £27m, it was a panic buy of sorts. He recognised we needed a midfielder desperately and went for someone he knew and trusted. He recognised that this squad would struggle without another midfielder and considering where we are and Fellaini being out all season he wasn't wrong.

That's not to say Fellaini is the miracle cure but you'd hope we would have done better if he'd have stayed fit and settled into the side. We could have done with him instead of Cleverley against Stoke, that's for sure.

Let us not forget that we didn't sign Fellaini until what, the last couple of hours on deadline day? It was clearly a case of, "okay we didn't get our targets and we badly need a CM so let's just get Fellaini." I mean Jesus, feck, would people have been happier if we had signed no one instead of Fellaini?

 

[Varun]

As long as he buys players of Mata's quality rather than Fellaini's, we'l be fine even if we have to sack him and get someone new in.

 

[Varun]

Let us not forget that we didn't sign Fellaini until what, the last couple of hours on deadline day? It was clearly a case of, "okay we didn't get our targets and we badly need a CM so let's just get Fellaini." I mean Jesus, fcuk, would people have been happier if we had signed no one instead of Fellaini?

Moyes's comments later pointed to that too. I remember it being something along the lines of we didnt get who we wanted or something.

 

[Kostur]

Yes, this keeps being repeated but this logic is very dangerous. What if the next manager doesn't feel like the squad has been properly upgraded? Will we give him another 100m to spend on his own players? As I said, we simply cannot afford to spend that kind of money every summer.

I maintain that the owners must back the manager financially - if the manager shows he's got what it takes to match expectations here. In that case let him build. They can't show blind faith though. Fans can if they wish, the owners must not.

Well if the upgrades will be Valencia -> Reus ( just an example ) then it would be pretty hard for the next manager to complain about it to be fair, we're buying undoubted quality. If we're however upgrading, say, Valencia -> Osman for the Mata-esque money then definitely he won't get the money for such 'upgrades'. Of course we can't afford to spend that kind of money every summer, but we'll have to do it this summer. Our midfield cries for help, our wings bar Januzaj and Mata are fruitless and 3 of our core defenders are ageing, Rio is well past it. You can't deny that we simply have to spend in order to re-build because some kind of cycle is coming to an end here.

 

[Mersault]

He won't destroy the club, but he will certainly hasten the 'Realification' of the club which I worried about previously and which I actually thought he would delay. When he goes at the end of next season we won't have a choice but to start spending like maniacs on world class players in their late 20s.

If he goes at the end of the season I don't think we need to acquire loads of players, especially not world class players at their peak. Whether he stays or goes we still need at least one supreme midfielder, if not two. We need a left back. But we've got a good squad. What our players need is belief, confidence and a system that suits them. Something we can attain through the right managerial appointment.

 

[Siorac]

Let us not forget that we didn't sign Fellaini until what, the last couple of hours on deadline day? It was clearly a case of, "okay we didn't get our targets and we badly need a CM so let's just get Fellaini." I mean Jesus, fcuk, would people have been happier if we had signed no one instead of Fellaini?

Yes, signing no one would have been preferable to Fellaini. We'd have 27m more to spend and would have one less unsellable player in our squad.

 

[sglowrider]

And this is a fair point that you've made. I'm just saying that you shoudn't expect the impossible from him.



First bolded: nobody cares, FFP is a myth that doesn't exist.

Second, Moyes seems to be aiming for the right players - 4 or 5 Matas as we call them - so the squad will be upgraded for the next manager to come, he won't have to buy as much.

If they don't want to back him up financially and have to 'hedge their bets' then what was the point in hiring them? It's them who decide and nobody else.

Business people do that. Its never all or nothing but a Plan B, C and D.

 

[Spider]

For anyone who belives in the Moyes magic here are a few points that show that we are struggling big time..

This summer was the start of what has become a farce-like episode in the history of our club and signing Fellaini was the sad punchline!

1. Many games this season we had no shape at all, our last game vs Stoke was a clear example of bad tactics and bad management.

2. Strange comments to the press. How many times have we been better even if we are clearly playing without a clue?? How many times haven´t we had any luck?? It´s said that teams achive their luck with work ethic?? And there are many more.. I got news for you Moyes, managers who kling on to luck and other hokus pokus things are never in control of their own fate.

3. No progress.. Same tactics with few good results, no youth (Januzaj apart, he was clearly on his way last year) and no entertainment value what so ever.

I could go on and on about our no progression under Moyes we have constantly been apalling this season. Well 4-4-2 (4-4-1-1) with average wingers has been shown to be not effective at all. And with our midfield lacking why haven´t we changed our tactics to 4-2-3-1 ?? And when we are loosing why not throw the kitchen sink?

We won the league last season with apparently terrible squad some have been saying, Moyes has said we need 4-5 players. We won with 89pts the same total as City the season before and the 3rd or 4th highest total in the history of the PL, now we could manage 25 - 30pts less than last season with the same squad..

We could argue that Moyes has given youth a chance in the past. But I see it differently he had to because of lacking funds at Everton, Ross Barkley had little playing time at Everton under Moyes but this year.... He has shown no desire to use youth and looks stubborn and dated in his approach.. Wilf Zaha anyone? Why hasn´t he had a chance when we had wingers giving us fcuk all? RB we have a couple of them on our papers in the youth deparment why use CB there? And this could be a great tool to motivate and give clear messages to the under performing players.

We have scored an impressive 39 goals in the PL this season, 16 came at Old Trafford.. Well you could argue that we are defensively setup? Well we have let in 29 that´s very impressive! 10 goals in plus after 24 games... Hull have let in 30 and Everton have scored 37... We have scored less than most of our rivals and let in more goals so if we are defensively minded we are doing a terrible job of it and clearly we aren´t attacking!

4. Fear factor. Moyes looks like a Deer in the headlights and our players are catching that virus fast.. Teams are having a go at us any given chance and we can´t punish anybody that´s trying!

5. He has no control over the players and they don´t seem to believe in his approach.. When that happens normally the writing is on the wall, but Moyes never has a go at anyone out there. He looks delusional when he speaks out about our performances, players look like they don´t give a shit.
He has lost the locker room and his compatriots that he brought with him look out of their depth! I could name a few times this season when the camera has panned over to us and Moyes and co look like they don´t know what to do next...

We need a manager that has balls, likes to take chances and plays modern football, Moyes sadly ticks very few of these boxes.
Sadly I think this experiment has run it´s course.. The sooner he goes the sooner we can start the rebuilding that is needed.

good post and couldn't have said it better!

 

[Revan]

Let us not forget that we didn't sign Fellaini until what, the last couple of hours on deadline day? It was clearly a case of, "okay we didn't get our targets and we badly need a CM so let's just get Fellaini." I mean Jesus, fcuk, would people have been happier if we had signed no one instead of Fellaini?

I really don't think that this was the case. Moyes has mentioned plenty of times that he wanted Fellaini and an another midfielder. We made 3 or 4 offers for Fellaini during the summer. It is clear that he was a priority, not a backup. If he was a backup and other players were priorities then we would have signed the available De Rossi for 20m or the available Herrera for 30m.

And personally, I would have been probably more happy if we didn't sign anyone, because we would have now have 30m to sign someone good. Of course, it would have been better to sign someone good in the first place. If we wanted a squad player just for the numbers then players like Schneiderlin, Cabaye and McCarthy were available for less money. And all of them are better than Fellaini for that particular position we hope Fellaini will play.

 

[Genius Me!]

Yes, signing no one would have been preferable to Fellaini. We'd have 27m more to spend and would have one less unsellable player in our squad.

Can't really agree with this. Yes £27m on Fellaini is £5-10m more than what we would have liked to have paid for him, but we all know what a sorry mess our midfield is. That extra £10m in the grand scheme of things won't be a hindrance to our transfer plans. Had Fellaini not have to go for his operation, then he may have settled by now and made a bit of a difference.

 

[Pexbo]

Let us not forget that we didn't sign Fellaini until what, the last couple of hours on deadline day? It was clearly a case of, "okay we didn't get our targets and we badly need a CM so let's just get Fellaini." I mean Jesus, fcuk, would people have been happier if we had signed no one instead of Fellaini?

Exactly. Then despite signing Fellaini and using it as a stick to beat him with you get loads of fans in January screaming out for "a midfielder, just any midfielder". Despite the fact we've already got 6 "just any midfielder's".

 

[Mad Winger]

55 pages in a week

 

[Bilbo]

The players are getting off far too easily in all of this.

I would think otherwise if Moyes had completely revamped our structure, and gone three at the back or something. He hasn't. He has taken a title-winning squad and kept the shape that they are all familiar with (logical). He has given himself a season to evaluate every player and decide who he wants to take us forward (logical).

He created a well-drilled and well-organised team at Everton on a very low budget. Further logic suggests that it should be easier to mould a better group of players to play how he wants them to, but for whatever reason it hasn't happened yet. This is a club so intrisically programmed to doing everything the Ferguson way that it seems that most people are underestimating the rebuilding that needs to occur before we can change.

Many of these players have absolutely no excuse for under-performing to the level that they have done. They are the ones that go out and do the business on the pitch, the ones that make the decisions on the pitch. For me, they are equally as culpable in all of this. The fact is, some of them are being shown up as simply not good enough, or incapable of adapting to the changes that have happened at the club.

 

[Raoul]

55 pages in a week

A large portion of which came immediately after the last match.

 

[RedTillI'mDead]

By saying it is 'ironic' suggests that there is an element of luck or fate involved. There isn't. Mourinho plays a system, he doesn't play stars.

The Mata situation worked for him on multiple levels. He swanned back into Chelsea and told their best player for the past couple of seasons that he was out because he doesn't work in his system. He had legitimate tactical reasons for doing so but it was also a significant power play.

It said to the rest of the squad that Mourinho is boss, you either get in line with what he is doing or you are out, he doesn't care for what the fans want or who got the most assists last year, he cares about putting together a team that will win, when your team wins you can do whatever you like.

Now he has sold Mata and used the funds to further shape his team in his own image. He has also sold Mata to a team that is still to play his two title rivals. Moyes will probably negate and advantage that Mata might give us, but can you imagine if Mata proves decisive against City or Arsenal, all will hail the genius of Mourinho yet again. If City and Arsenal beat us then Chelsea will still probably win the title because Mourinho just gets the job done whatever happens.

How does this relate to Moyes at United? Well it just emphasises the gulf in managerial prowess between the two. One manager is full of confidence, daring and direction whilst the other flails, fumbles and makes excuses.

Mourinho takes fate by the hand and dances with it whilst Moyes gets to the byline and manages to hit it with one out of eight pull backs.

I think you missed the irony! The irony being we could have done with a player like Matic more so than Mata and yet we funded such a player going to Chelsea.

Other than that you are spot on! Mourinho was always the only manager we should have looked to have got. 10+ years of further success, another decade and instead what next. The sad thing about the Moyes situation is who else would you actually get?

Guardiola who has really only proven himself at two clubs with an embarrassment of riches and quality. He might command initial respect, but would he really seem to great without having a great team to start off with. For this reason I would also be surprised if he was even interested in the job. I think he'll always be a manager who goes straight to great established teams, as opposed to a team requiring substantial work.

Simeone, but would he come to the Premiership? Seems to be doing great results with Athletico Madrid, but again the Spanish league is very different to the Premiership. Would he make the transition?

Conte, doing an amazing job at Juve, good eye for talent, knows how to get the best of young players. Might be a good fit if we could get him.

Klopp, solid job with Dortmound, quality tactically. Similar question to Moyes in terms of ability to step-up, but already seems a level or two above.

Bianchi, at Boca Juniors, only coach to win four Copa Libertadores.

Del Bosque, at 63 maybe a touch too old, but only manager to win the Champions League, European Championship and World Cup, but then with the Spanish team he had that should be a given.

So there are options, but not exactly vast and far from any guarantees on any of them. Conte would probably be my choice if we sack Moyes.

 

[Genius Me!]

I really don't think that this was the case. Moyes has mentioned plenty of times that he wanted Fellaini and an another midfielder. We made 3 or 4 offers for Fellaini during the summer. It is clear that he was a priority, not a backup. If he was a backup and other players were priorities then we would have signed the available De Rossi for 20m or the available Herrera for 30m.

And personally, I would have been probably more happy if we didn't sign anyone, because we would have now have 30m to sign someone good. Of course, it would have been better to sign someone good in the first place. If we wanted a squad player just for the numbers then players like Schneiderlin, Cabaye and McCarthy were available for less money. And all of them are better than Fellaini for that particular position we hope Fellaini will play.

If Moyes really wanted Fellaini, then he would have just paid the £22m. Yeah he can paint it up how he wants that he tried to do a deal for both him and baines and that's the reason why he didn't trigger the release clause but he's not an idiot and I don't really buy it. Fair enough, yeah he tried to buy both but I think he would have tried harder before the release clause expired. He could have signed him a month earlier, taken him on tour and integrate him into the squad. Instead he plays a few games for Everton at the start of the season.

 

[Siorac]

Well if the upgrades will be Valencia -> Reus ( just an example ) then it would be pretty hard for the next manager to complain about it to be fair, we're buying undoubted quality. If we're however upgrading, say, Valencia -> Osman for the Mata-esque money then definitely he won't get the money for such 'upgrades'. Of course we can't afford to spend that kind of money every summer, but we'll have to do it this summer. Our midfield cries for help, our wings bar Januzaj and Mata are fruitless and 3 of our core defenders are ageing, Rio is well past it. You can't deny that we simply have to spend in order to re-build because some kind of cycle is coming to an end here.

There are players of obvious quality, like Reus, and there are players who are obviously not good enough. The issue isn't with these.

The issue is with the likes of Baines and Fellaini and Cabaye. The likes of Ashley Young and Valencia. Those who are the best players at mid-table clubs but do not have obvious, outstanding quality. They are, basically, gambles. Gambles all top clubs make from time to time, not even Real Madrid buy only proven star quality.

A talented youngster might turn out to be Ronaldo or he might become an Anderson. The best player of a lesser club in the Premier League might turn out to be another Carrick or another Young. And we cannot sign four or five or six players of obvious quality like Mata, Fabregas, Reus or Vidal. We'll have to gamble if we're rebuilding. If we let Moyes gamble a 100m or more without showing any improvement during the rest of the season - well that's a potential for disaster and the next manager might very well want to clear out the Fellainis and other signings Moyes makes. But we can't afford that.

I doubt we can sign more than two players of Mata's quality in a single summer so a big clearout is impossible if we don't gamble. It still won't be "Moyes' squad" in that case though.

 

[Mersault]

Guardiola who has really only proven himself at two clubs with an embarrassment of riches and quality. He might command initial respect, but would he really seem to great without having a great team to start off with. For this reason I would also be surprised if he was even interested in the job. I think he'll always be a manager who goes straight to great established teams, as opposed to a team requiring substantial work.

I don't think that rules him out really. Mourinho has pretty much done the same. Gone from one top team to another. Always with very good financial backing. What he's doing now is a first, at least him talking of building. Pep has so many arrows to his bow that had he been available it would have been criminal not to appoint him. Just thinking about how he'd revolutionize our youth set-up makes one

Maybe we didn't go after a top drawer manager because they might not tow the line with the Glazers...

 

[Revan]

If Moyes really wanted Fellaini, then he would have just paid the £22m. Yeah he can paint it up how he wants that he tried to do a deal for both and that's the reason why he didn't trigger the release clause but he's not an idiot and I don't really buy it. Fair enough, yeah he tried to buy both but I think he would have tried harder before the release clause expired. He could have signed him a month earlier, taken him on tour and integrate him into the squad. Instead he plays a few games for Everton at the start of the season.

Everton is a club who needs to sell in order to survive. If we have paid his release clause, they wouldn't need to sell anymore, so we wouldn't get Baines. Now after we know what happened looks very stupid, but at the time wasn't (I mean the strategy, going for those 2 players obviously was stupid). So Moyes and Ed decided to make all offers combined in order to force Everton to sell both of them. On the other side, they worked to get another midfielder. This is the reason why all the time the offer was for both of them, and Moyes confirmed that.

Only when it became clear (at around 11pm) that Everton won't sell both of them, the club divided the offer and went only for Fellaini. Then Kenwright gave them a lesson how this business works, making us overpay and send Powell in loan to Wigan in order for them to leave McCarthy go to Everton.

Fellaini was anything but a panic buy. Yes he was signed on the last hour, but so was Berbatov and Tevez and I don't remember anyone calling it a panic buy. If you chase a player all the summer and make multiple offers, it isn't a panic buy.