And let's pretend that nothing else affects the teams performance, such as injuries, losing SAF etc?
And over what period do we judge him?
Moyes So Far!
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And let's pretend that nothing else affects the teams performance, such as injuries, losing SAF etc?
And over what period do we judge him?
We've been judging him since day one. We continue to judge him over his period with the club until the Glazer's decide enough is enough. The same level of scrutiny will follow his successor. This is one of the biggest jobs in world football.
Because he didn't just feck people off over two bad games. Maybe if they just weren't good enough. He isn't a complete idiot. He may have been ruthless, but as he said he 'can see the potential in people where most other people are unable to'. How fitting are his words right now.
It's important you realise Ferguson isn't some footballing god immune to poor decisions. He made some extremely questionable calls in his final years with us as manager, mainly not addressing the midfield. That was an issue everybody in the entire world acknowledged bar Ferguson. Who's to say he hasn't made another bad call with Moyes?
He can't lose to Fulham, he seriously can't but he probably will. Then he'll have the blind backing of those who don't actually believe he is qualified to turn this around but are too proud to criticize for fear of being called spoiled. As if the man has had a dream to play a style of football the world has never seen but was never given the players to make his dream come true. Now he has a way better squad but still seems to underachieve. I didn't expect us to beat the big hitters but we're consistently losing to lesser opposition.
I expected Moyes to be able to realize what are strengths are as a squad and focus on them to win the games we should be winning. Instead I feel he's tried to in force a style of play that doesn't seem to mesh with any combination of players thus leaving us looking like a misguided group of individuals on the pitch.
Yes we need players, yes Moyes should get time to get them in but we have the talent to beat teams like Stoke and Sunderland. He is just as guilty of underperforming as any player on the pitch.
I expected Moyes to be able to realize what are strengths are as a squad and focus on them to win the games we should be winning. Instead I feel he's tried to in force a style of play that doesn't seem to mesh with any combination of players thus leaving us looking like a misguided group of individuals on the pitch.
Yes we need players, yes Moyes should get time to get them in but we have the talent to beat teams like Stoke and Sunderland. He is just as guilty of underperforming as any player on the pitch.
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To be fair he fecked alot of people out that have gone on to be a success elsewhere when he thought they weren't good enough....But what do I know? It's half 2 in the morning, I'm in my boxers, eating a jar of cookies, a family bag of cheesy puffs and I'm watching wrestling....No one should listen to me
Poor Moyes....Maybe we could make a film out of it?
That doesn't answer my question. You said he should be judged on results and football played. Over what period? 1 game? Half a season? Two seasons?
There's nothing to say that he definitely can't be a success here. The club know his plans so they must be pretty convincing if they're going to stand by him.
Well we can judge him on his first season, barring some sort of minor miracle it's been a failure. His summer was also a massive failure. We'll see what he does in the coming summer, if next season starts in anyway similar he has to go. Has to.
From my point of view, it's the continued "style" of football that he has us playing that I am judging him on....It's clearly not been working since day 1 and he's done nothing to try and change that...Take the Tottenham game at home for example, Spurs knew all they had to do was defend the wings, block the crosses and they'd stop us. And they did. In that match, Januzaj grew a set, threw the plan out the window and created our goal....Through the middle!!
The fact Moyes hasn't done anything about the way we play amazes me...He works with the players every single day. He knows their strengths and weaknesses....Surely he can base a game plan on this that doesn't involve Valencia trying to get a cross into the box
What about in the rare event we put in a good showing in the champions league and get to the semis without getting mauled? Would that give him a stay of execution or is the league the barometer?
Seems like if Barcelona hired Moyes, they had to ship out half of the team, just because "they don't suit Moyes football philosophy and vision, thus he needs to get his own players". And some (few) in here would agree with that.
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There aren't many that he deemed not good enough that enjoyed success at the very top. Though players like Stam he admits he let go too early.
I can't be bothered discussing this at 2am either. Enjoy your cheesy puffs and cookies mate!
I don't understand it. Just about the whole team are playing terribly yet are they really worse than some of the teams who have given us some real tough games and beaten us? If players like Britton, Shelvey, Ki, Mulumbu etc are all capable of keeping the ball and playing some good football against us, how has it gotten to the point we can't even have more of the ball against teams like Cardiff or Sunderland at home. Even at at Everton I'd expect Moyes' teams would have done better. There is something seriously wrong with our set-up and that surely is the manager's responsibility.
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Does Moyes have a football philosophy? from his decade at Everton, all i've been able to tell is, be stubborn, be organised and crowd midfield to make it difficult.
Right now hes not even playing his own brand of rigid boredom, it's like Sir Alex has filled his head with notions of "Man Utd Football": 2 always upfront, wingplay and god knows what else, the end results are utter trash and I've really no confidence Moyes can fix our style of play judging on his decade at Everton.
Just a year ago, we are creaming about how our young crop of players would be the backbone of United for years to come.
Now half of them are not good enough and needs to be sold...
Make up your mind will you
Now half of them are not good enough and needs to be sold...
Make up your mind will you
Who knows, man. People talk about us being unlucky: injuries, referees, players mistakes. Those things can be forgiven if we've played like a big team supposed to play: comfortable on the ball, smart play, good on possession; just those basic stuff in good team. And surely a big team like us are not supposedly still 'unlucky' until February.
Deadwood?
He marginalise Kagawa, loaned Zaha out, sold Fabio (who probably can do as backup, he played in CL final afterall). Not to mention Smailing might never be the player he was if he's shifted right while he supposed to be playing in the middle.
The result will piss our star players, and the domino effect will be felt more than just a mere 1 season without CL football.
All thanks to him
I'm thinking of making a thread, but I guess i'll just keep it here:
Does teams above us at the moment really strengthening beyond us?
Arsenal
Bought Ozil after losing their talismanic RvP
Chelsea
Bought a couple of players, brought back Mourinho, but they practically left out their best player last season, haven't bought a striker bar Eto'o
City
I forget who they bought bar Negredo
Spurs
Lost Bale but reinvested in several very good player
Liverpool
Managed to hang on to Suarez and bought a decent keeper in mignolet
Newcastle
Cabaye?
Southampton
Seems to be building from last year
Everton
Martinez and 3 loanee
Manchester United
Hang on to Rooney, Januzaj emergence, Zaha, Fellaini, Mata and... Moyes
We keep on hearing teams around us strengthening to no end, I believe that's just a myth, they're simply doing what any club will do each year, strengthening some areas while having problems of themselves.
Point wise they're not flying high at the moment, they are where they are or thereabout last year (city, chelsea)
Thoughts?
Does teams above us at the moment really strengthening beyond us?
Arsenal
Bought Ozil after losing their talismanic RvP
Chelsea
Bought a couple of players, brought back Mourinho, but they practically left out their best player last season, haven't bought a striker bar Eto'o
City
I forget who they bought bar Negredo
Spurs
Lost Bale but reinvested in several very good player
Liverpool
Managed to hang on to Suarez and bought a decent keeper in mignolet
Newcastle
Cabaye?
Southampton
Seems to be building from last year
Everton
Martinez and 3 loanee
Manchester United
Hang on to Rooney, Januzaj emergence, Zaha, Fellaini, Mata and... Moyes
We keep on hearing teams around us strengthening to no end, I believe that's just a myth, they're simply doing what any club will do each year, strengthening some areas while having problems of themselves.
Point wise they're not flying high at the moment, they are where they are or thereabout last year (city, chelsea)
Thoughts?
Take a look at the list below and see for yourself on how many of the new additions have playerd parts in the team's performances this season. Compare that to ours.
Not just the number of players, bur the teams bought what they need! We've been drumming about for a CM for about 2 seasons now and get Fellaini (wo was out first choice and also the last choice as none better wanted to come!). Then comes Mata who is the cherry, when we don't have a fcekin cake! Cannot fault Mata purchase, but was there no CM available for the same 37mil or more?
Arsenal
Yaya Sanogo (Auxerre) Free
Mathieu Flamini (AC Milan) Free
Emiliano Viviano (Palermo) Loan
Mesut Ozil (Real Madrid) Undisclosed
Chelsea
Manager: Jose Mourinho
Andre Schurrle (Bayer Leverkusen) Undisclosed
Mario van Ginkel (Vitesse Arnhem) Undisclosed
Mark Schwarzer (Fulham) Free
Cristian Cuevas (O'Higgins) Undisclosed
Willian (Anzhi Makhachkala) Undisclosed
Samuel Eto'o (Anzhi Makhachkala) Undisclosed
Christian Atsu (Porto) Undisclosed
Liverpool
Kolo Toure (Manchester City) Free
Luis Alberto (Sevilla) Undisclosed
Iago Aspas (Celta Vigo) Undisclosed
Simon Mignolet (Sunderland) Undisclosed
Aly Cissokho (Valencia) Loan
Tiago Ilori (Sporting Lisbon) Undisclosed
Mamadou Sakho (Paris St Germain( Undisclosed)
Victor Moses (Chelsea) Loan
Manchester City
Manager: Manuel Pellegrini
Fernandinho (Shakhtar Donetsk) Undisclosed
Jesus Navas (Sevilla) Undisclosed
Alvaro Negredo (Sevilla) Undisclosed
Stevan Jovetic (Fiorentina) Undisclosed
Martin Demichelis (Atletico Madrid) Undisclosed
Manchester United
Manager: David Moyes
Guillermo Varela (Atletico Penarol) Undisclosed
Marouane Fellaini (Everton) Undiclosed
Tottenham Hotspur
Paulinho (Corinthians) Undisclosed
Nacer Chadli (FC Twente) Undisclosed
Roberto Soldado (Valencia) Undisclosed
Etienne Capoue (Toulouse) Undisclosed
Vlad Chiriches (Steaua Bucharest) Undisclosed
Erik Lamela (Roma) Undisclosed
Christian Eriksen (Ajax) Undisclosed
I used to agree on giving Moyes time. Then I realised time for what?
He's been here more than half a season now and what exactly is he doing?
Any clue on how the 'rebuilding' is supposed to look like?
Any clue on his formation/strategy?
Any clue on his visiion for the future?
If we do give him time, will any of the above questions be answered?
He's been here more than half a season now and what exactly is he doing?
Any clue on how the 'rebuilding' is supposed to look like?
Any clue on his formation/strategy?
Any clue on his visiion for the future?
If we do give him time, will any of the above questions be answered?
Thanks for that.
Looking at that list, there's nobody we can't afford from that list alone...
Moyes has been exceeding all my expectation so far, far beyond my craziest dream. I never expect he could be that shite.
Arsenal had a good squad that didn't need much tweeking, that stability coupled with a world class signing has seen them capitalize on a transitional period for a few top teams. They could be in serious trouble if Giroud gets injured though.
Chelsea had a very good squad last season, just a couple of dodgy managers. They signed a couple of very good attackers in the summer and got, arguably, their best ever manager back.
City spent close to £100m on four excellent players; Jovetic, Fernandinho, Jesus Navas, and Negredo. They also hired a better manager than the one they gad last season.
Liverpool signed Sturridge and Coutinho last January. Obviously having both of them for a whole season has made a big difference, as well as Suarez raising his game.
We lost our manager of 26 years, Paul Scholes retired, and then we signed one midfielder who has been injured pretty much all season. We've been really unlucky with injuries all season actually and age has clearly caught up with a few members of the squad.
I wasn't sure about Moyes at first, but I'm not going to judge him after 7 months, especially after the luck he's had so far. Even Fergie would have struggled with this squad and these injuries.
Chelsea had a very good squad last season, just a couple of dodgy managers. They signed a couple of very good attackers in the summer and got, arguably, their best ever manager back.
City spent close to £100m on four excellent players; Jovetic, Fernandinho, Jesus Navas, and Negredo. They also hired a better manager than the one they gad last season.
Liverpool signed Sturridge and Coutinho last January. Obviously having both of them for a whole season has made a big difference, as well as Suarez raising his game.
We lost our manager of 26 years, Paul Scholes retired, and then we signed one midfielder who has been injured pretty much all season. We've been really unlucky with injuries all season actually and age has clearly caught up with a few members of the squad.
I wasn't sure about Moyes at first, but I'm not going to judge him after 7 months, especially after the luck he's had so far. Even Fergie would have struggled with this squad and these injuries.
I've never said Moyes out so far, (Feel far too guilty about Sir Alex last message to us to do so), but I'm really struggling to understand the thinking this will come good bar sheer blind hope right now, Has he improved us? not really, Has he shown any signs of building something ? again not really. Has he gotten the best out of his squad? obviously not. Has the football been enjoyable?.. hmm no, Has he shown any sign of implementing a playingstyle which we could continue to build upon though?.. again the answer is no. Did he show in 10 years at Everton that he has the capability of playing attack minded, fast flowing football? nope. Has he won anything to show future promise? nope. Do you think it's likely we could get top 4 still? nope, Do you think it's likely we'll even climb out of 7th based on results and game to game performances? Noooope.
Help me Sir Alex, I'm slipping..
Help me Sir Alex, I'm slipping..
I think we are all hanging on by a thread so usage of cliches would be apt. Otherwise there maybe a few less Caftards by next seasons.. permanently.
Let me start...
There is no winter before spring.
Let me start...
There is no winter before spring.
If....If we get anything less then a win on Sunday, it really could be the end of him regardless of what any of our opinions are....
Lots of money to be made pre season on that tour in the U.S...But we have to pull out because of his incompetence to try and qualify for the Europa league...Not so lucrative
Glazers are businessmen...That will not go down well
Lots of money to be made pre season on that tour in the U.S...But we have to pull out because of his incompetence to try and qualify for the Europa league...Not so lucrative
Glazers are businessmen...That will not go down well
Rvp and rooney only made 4 passes = kickoff passes...
I think for some of us here its wishful thinking. There will be no knee-jerk reaction with Moyes. Six years contract is expensive and besides who would we get in?
Dunno being honest...It's just my honest gut feeling.
To get to where we need to be at the end of the season Moyes needs to transmit an ironclad belief that we will do it. Right now he's just emitting fear, excuses and hopelessness.
We have stood by Bebe this long... its in our DNA, a family club.
No we haven't! We keep shipping him off on loan in the hope someone takes him ha
This illustrates how far he's dragged us.
Am I the only one who notices how other teams have improved points wise ? Arsenal by 17, as Barney said, Liverpool by 12, Chelski by 7, even fecking City improved by one point. Everton and Spuds can be blamed on us, we've given them each 3 points.
It is how it is, we've regressed ( points wise ) while other kicked off very well. City's got Aguero, Silva and Toure ( who's phenomenal I'd say, 6 goals 6 assists last season, 24 games in this season and he's got 12 goals and 4 assists already ) back in the form, Arsenal get the best start in the league since 1410, same can be said about Liverpool and their infamous SAS scoring plenty of goals. When you add those two things, this is why we are where we are. If the had as shit season as the previous one, we wouldn't be far off the fourth, in fact, 6 points off 3rd.
Yesterday I was running through statistics such as goals from counter attacks ( for which we were famous at some point ), attacking through the middle, goals from set pieces and all that. I was 'a bit' surprised when I've checked the through-the-middle stats for last and 11/12 seasons because I am told here that Moyes makes everybody attack through the flanks and that he's a clueless ( I don't like attacking through flanks either, mind ). Basically, we were attacking just 4% more through the middle last season ( when Carrick was not injured and had his best season for us ) and 6% back in 11/12. Other statistics were fun to read as well, especially if you took a look at how Everton was playing under Moyes.
Style has not changed, sadly, scores did.
Don't worry lad, we'll hire big Duncan in the summer as a coach and you'll see a change!!
"Alri lads, get stuck into that lot!"
"What is this?"
"Yorkshire pudding Nani lad. Tuck in. Build your strength up! Wazza is already on his third helping"
Haha... think Wazza and Neville shared a smoking habit if memory serves me correctly.
United shares in the stock market already falling this season. The amount of money that is going to take to sack Moyes is not going comparable to the amount of money the Glazers make in the stock market
I can't help but falling back on why Ferguson was successful. On this day and age, where players ego as big as their paycheck, he managed to get them to set aside their ego and work towards the same direction. No wonder that he was invited to give lectures at Harvard. It's a skill that can be transferred to any other job.
Another thing, I don't like when Gary Neville said that Manchester United can change the manager, or that Moyes would improve because he managed United. It should be the other way around. When Ferguson went to United, it was clear that he was ready for a bigger job. Breaking the Old Firm dominance (never been done again), winning in Europe with Aberdeen, beating Real freaking Madrid in the final. He's not improving by going to United, he improved United because he knows that he's capable of that.
I don't believe that United can change Moyes, or that he could improve significantly enough to make it work. He should be that before he went here
Another thing, I don't like when Gary Neville said that Manchester United can change the manager, or that Moyes would improve because he managed United. It should be the other way around. When Ferguson went to United, it was clear that he was ready for a bigger job. Breaking the Old Firm dominance (never been done again), winning in Europe with Aberdeen, beating Real freaking Madrid in the final. He's not improving by going to United, he improved United because he knows that he's capable of that.
I don't believe that United can change Moyes, or that he could improve significantly enough to make it work. He should be that before he went here
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