I guess the Caf will be anti Moyes until we beat Fulham, and then everyone will come out and say he is okay and just needs to be given time.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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Of course players will be considering their futures, everyone does when their employer is clearly heading in the wrong direction. For all the negative talk about 'projects' as a euphemism for money, people generally do want to be involved in an enterprise heading in the right direction if they can help it.
True, then not in the last 3 decades I think
I won't be
Nah, Stoke was the final straw for me. I don't think he's the man to bring us into the new era, and he'd have to do a hell of a lot more than beating an awful Fulham side to convince me otherwise.
Moyes needed results fast if he was to win the players trust. What many on here are saying is true. Put yourself in the players shoes. You're used to winning things, you have a winning mentality and have been under the best manager ever. Then someone who has not won anything, from a mid table club comes in. Do you seriously expect to take him seriously? The only way was if he won over my trust that he actually does know what he's doing. Unfortunately the results have proven otherwise. As for as I'm concerned he lost the players a long time back.
I haven't seen this flip flop approach, if i'm honest. There was certainly renewed backing after signing Mata, but other than that each victory on the pitch since the home losses to Everton and Newcastle has been met with cautious optimism.
You know all this Anderson talk has me thinking, are we going to see a player revolt at OT? If we do Moyes is toast. In just 7 months the mood and atmosphere around the club has reverted back to the late 80s. I remember talking in another thread about the physchology of Fergie being sat in the stand and how that impacts the whole club.
At this point with Moyes looking so lame the physchology around the club is increasingly heading towards timid mediocrity. Maybe now we'll see if our highly paid stars actually care about this club and 'revolt'. Are we going to see a 'Keane on MUTV' style rebellion at any point I wonder? We can't be that far off Moyes losing the dressing room....
At this point with Moyes looking so lame the physchology around the club is increasingly heading towards timid mediocrity. Maybe now we'll see if our highly paid stars actually care about this club and 'revolt'. Are we going to see a 'Keane on MUTV' style rebellion at any point I wonder? We can't be that far off Moyes losing the dressing room....
Don't you think circumstances conspired against him, the injuries early on in the game and having to move Carrick to defence not to mention the tsunami weather too.
I kinda agree too, i'm also close to breaking point with Moyes, and will only tip over to the opinion of him having to go if we do not make top 4.
I think the players respect Ferguson too much to go and revolt. Think they'll continue to go about their business and the unhappy ones will quietly hand in transfer requests.
One thing is for sure, though i've been staunchly defensive of Moyes at times, if the young core of our team start to get disillusioned and want away then i know who i'd rather we got rid of. That's a dangerous line though, could we see a Chelsea-AVB type thing?
I have to say that Stoke kind of broke the camels back for me. I realise he probably isn't going anywhere for a couple of seasons....so far enough he will get a good punt. But he's lost my faith which I did have at the start. I think he's also lost a bit of faith of some of the players...
There's only so much we can blame on luck. And the players. He looks to me to be an uninspiring manager with no bollocks.
I won't be. One more win isn't goign to make a differnce, and neither is getting enough for 5th. His tactics and management style is wrong for this club, and the longer we keep him the bigger the price we'll pay.
Kid Cunto said it perfectly - he's got no balls and is an uninspiring manager with no tactics for a modern team.
well...prepare to lose the faith in him. Good that you still believe we could get fourth....I respect that, but I've given up on that...the way we are playing...the games we need to win..in my opinion...there is no way we will do it.
I wish Giggs will have a word with Sir Alex and ask him to come back.
I think to a degree he's caught between two stools. Yes, those other managers have changed philosophies within months, but that's what they were clearly there to do - what had gone before hadn't worked, so they had a blank canvas.
But what exactly is the mission when you come into the most succesful club in the country, and reigning champions? There's bound to be a strong element in people's minds of "if it ain't broke don't fix it", but at the same time you can't try and just make the manager change his philosophy to the pre-existing one.
In the end, Moyes has done neither so far - he's certainly not just kept htings going as they were, but neither has he imposed an obvious new philosophy (for all the bollocks talked about his negative tactics which, in reality, a little differetn to those we've played for the last couple of seasons).
What I'm hoping is that he and the directors were well aware of this quandry, and have taken the view that the only way to deal with it in a lasting and concrete way is to take a step back, and take time assesssing exactly where we are and how best to move forwards. This goes a long way to explaining the obsessive comitment to the long term, and our lack of activity in the transfer market in the summer.
I guess that's why I'm not panicking too much about the current state of things. I don't think we're anywhere near seeing what a Moyes United team looks like yet, and I'm fully prepared to basically write this season off and start judging where we are next season.
The only part of this that particularly pisses me off is that I'd have thought the situation could have been avoided by managing the hand-voer better - eg getting Moyes in as assistant for a season, as it was often said we would do. That way he couldhave hit the ground running rather than waste a season.
Getting the best out of his players was one trait he was lauded for at Everton, but he can't seem to recreate that here. I'm starting to think he was doomed from the start in that regard, having won nothing and taking over a team of serial trophy lifters.
I agree with this and I would add its not only the results, the players must also think Moyes has no real plan.
If the players could see Moyes trying to introduce a new way of playing they might buy into it, even if we weren't winning. People forget in Rodgers' first season at Liverpool they made a lot of mistakes and they did not get the results Rodgers wanted. But the players stayed with Brenton because they could see where he was trying to go.
Where is Moyes trying to go? Are we more compact, harder to beat? Are we playing in a way that is different, in any positive sense, to the way we played under Fergie? At the moment it just feels like we hoof it forward and try and get it wide as often as we can before pumping the ball into the box. We don't even try to work the ball in front of teams to make space for runners to get in behind and put crosses in, often we're crossing it from deep into a sea of bodies for the hell of it. The players cannot be inspired by that. The Mata signing might have stopped them feeling that United are in a downward spiral but they cannot look at Moyes and think he's gonna lead them upwards.
Can't disagree, but we have to factor in that whoever took over from SAF would go through a transitional period, coupled with the fact our squad needed an overhaul last summer, so these things will take time.
For me the acid test is this summer, if we fail to make top 4 and also fail in the transfer market then we would need to seriously look at Moyes position but it is only at the end of the season and not now.
Still think he'll be sacked half way through next season to be honest.
I'm not saying whether we will make top 4 or not, but simply if we doesn't then Moyes should be held accountable but only at the end of the season and not now.
The acid test has already started for me. There is so much criticism of him from all corners after the stoke match, mainly from our style or play (hoof ball, wing play). Journalists have picked up on it. If he still doesn't change something, if we still don't see some change in our play before the summer then he has to go before the window opens. I mean seriously, it doesn't take a genius to change your formation when you don't have the midfielders for a 442. Throw in an extra man in midfield for goodness sakes!
Do you really trust the team that gave us this statement?
'The second priority was to add a midfield player, and the capture of Fellaini has met that need'. Just let that sink in for a few seconds...
It would be for the best.
The players talk about how they're backing the manager but they obviously have no faith in him. And why would they? A squad full of winners being led by a managerial nobody, how is that supposed to inspire confidence? A manager whose philosophy seems to include the tactic of lump it, lump it, lump it in semi-hurricance conditions, how are they players supposed to get behind that?
Jaysus, I had forgotten about that.
Do you really trust the team that gave us this statement?
'The second priority was to add a midfield player, and the capture of Fellaini has met that need'. Just let that sink in for a few seconds...
Technically he is correct. Who's to say then that Fellaini doesn't go on to get injured and instead becomes a key player? In purely black and white terms though, if the aim was to sign a footballer that plays in midfield, we succeeded.
Except that Moyes said several times after adding Fellaini that he's looking for another midfielder to add, and seeing how we've splashed money on Mata, I believe he will unless the target has some unrealistic/absurd pricetag.
Can't wait for Moyes to turn this all around and ya'll feckers will come back praising him.
Does Ferguson still have absolute faith in him, do we reckon? Surely he's had some doubts, or is he as blind as Moyes for playing Valencia every week?
I was of this opinion, and a small part of me still thinks this can be done. But it will be a long road i think, more to do with Moyes learning how to manage a top club than anything else.
No, what Giggs needs to do is explain to Sir Alex that Moyes has lost the dressing room and that he needs some guidance on how to get it back or he will fail.
I realise that Sir Alex getting involved could lead us down a dark path, everyone remembers Wilf McGuiness, but he's the only one with the authority both at boardroom and dressing room level to sort this out.
Moyes is floundering and if he isn't asking Sir Alex for advice then Sir Alex simply has to give it to him, whether he wants it or not.
He has said he's given everyone a chance, and can now see what needs to be done to move forward. I hope he includes Valencia, 442 and the rest in this.
What he said is still the same. He focused on wingers getting to the byline as his only statement regarding our attack. At least the expanded quote shows that he realizes that his main method of attack doesn't work. It just begs the question of why he keeps it up. If we can't cross the ball successfully, maybe we should do something other than focus all our energy on the flanks?
If he manages to turn this around then fair play to him. But I've seen nothing in over half a season, with riches of resources at his disposal, to suggest he will. One step forward, two steps back. He ain't up to it.
Sir Alex should just sack Moyes and sort out this mess himself and being us to 4th place, then if he still feels like retiring, do it without selecting the next manager
Yup, and I still believe he can do it, not this but the next year.
You act like I want Moyes to fail. Do you think it gives me pleasure to see Man Utd in this state? I'd be overjoyed if Moyes proved me wrong. It'd mean United actually start playing like some sort of decent football team again.
I would guess that he keeps it up because it's the only system he has available right now. We've got some fine attacking players in RVP, Rooney, Mata, Janujaz and the like but absolutely no midfield that can protect the defence while allowing the creative players to flourish.
I wasn't heading the second line at you mate, take no offense, I just didn't want to make two separate posts. Some people act here ( as somebody has noticed before ) like they want United/Moyes to fail for sake of being right. You'll see that some crawled after 1-2 years of not posting just to say 'MOYES IS SHIT' and 'MOYES OUT'.
This is going to be a very unpopular opinion but if our dour display and results continue until the end of the season, if Moyes isn't sacked then I hope our players force him out.
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