We've been let off the hook in recent weeks. We lost to Chelsea and Stoke and are no worse off than we were - maybe a point. I agree with your post though. We have to find our form. If we do, then we will get there.
Moyes So Far!
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We've been let off the hook in recent weeks. We lost to Chelsea and Stoke and are no worse off than we were - maybe a point. I agree with your post though. We have to find our form. If we do, then we will get there.
1. Personally I think we've already seen more than enough and it's beyond reasonable doubt that Moyes isn't up to the job.
2. Hope you're right
3. I don't understand the logic of waiting till the summer, does anyone really think he'd more likely to win us the CL or make 4th than an interim manager?
This. And this takes me back to the City comparison, which I admit is imperfect. But if you are in the market for players and you arent in the CL, unless you get lucky you may end up having to buy players to get you into the CL, rather than players for competing in it. The Gareth Barry type players. For all the talk about getting the very best players I think we may need to settle for simply improving, get back into the top 4 places and then get those top quality players we are talking about. It isnt black and white, we may be able to attract one or two of the best players on the basis of our reputation but I suspect most will get offers from other clubs willing to pay the same or higher wages while also offering them CL football and theyll go that way instead.
I'm talking about buying some players, not firing the manager.
Yeah, if we use the Kroos example again: if we qualify for the Europa and he decides he doesn't want to stay at Bayern, will we really be his best option. Even if he wasn't wanted by the likes of Barca, Real, City, Chelsea and Arsenal, he could probably earn more if he went to the likes of Monaco or PSG, who will obviously be in the CL. So you're banking on the club being a big enough pull to override that and have him do (hopefully) one season to get back into the CL and then hopefully kick on from there. As you said, we might find one or two willing to do that - and even then I'm dubious - but plenty of players won't even consider us for the reasons mentioned.
I'd rather we replace Moyes and not sign anyone than keep him, but each to their own.
The only "big name player" to sign for a club not in the CL I can think of is Ronaldinho joining Barca. Beckham refused to go to a non-CL club that summer.
If that manager is someone good, then certainly things will become better. If he is someone average like Allardyce then it doesn't make sense at all to sack Moyes in order to get another Moyes.
I was talking more about this season at Chelsea when he has been more out than in pitch for Chelsea.You don't gave to find something to disagree with in every post matestats aside the games I saw him in he played really well and that was coming from the right which was new to him. Played centrally was his best season but he also came from the left at Valencia, he ticks all the boxes along with Kagawa, Rooney and Januzaj for the manager to implement the system he's hinted at. Let's watch what he does against Fulham, if he plays two wingers I think I will actually cry.
I agree about the other part, he is a very versatile player that can do good in all three attacking midfielders position. He's also better than Kagawa as a No.10
I have said before that I think Moyes is being used by SAF to try and prove that a British manager can operate at a big club, unfortunately it isn't doing United or poor David Moyes any favours. Moyes has always had a good reputation and this experience might just destroy that. United could recover by getting a big name manager in and spending big. Moyes might not recover which will be a shame.
Just read that the odds of us winning the league this season are an astounding 150/1. I can't remember the last time such odds were quoted for a Manchester United side. 1973 or 1974 maybe.
That is one of the big mistakes. The club should have put it's foot down, like Bayern and said if you want to take the job you have to keep the coaching staff, there would have been some continuity then. The changing of all the staff and then having two completely inexperienced coaches on the staff is a disaster waiting to happen.
Whatever happens here i dont think it will destroy Moyes' reputation. If he fails with us he wont get another job like the United one but for a team with a different set of aspirations - not winning leagues or even qualifying for CLs but replicating what he achieved at Everton - he will still have some appeal.
We're stuck with him. I don't think we can get a quality manager in middle of February that would bring immediate success. It will be another gamble. Besides even if the new manager drives us forward (which cannot be hard at the moment) he then would be given another chance etc so we could again find ourselves in a cycle.
We won't win the CL this year, and missing out on 4th won't be that of an issue if we get rid of the burden in the Summer and rebuild.
IMO appointing Moyes will go down as one of the worst decisions in EPL history, right there with Ardiles, Olson and Souness.
That coupled with passing on Mourinho will go down as the worst decisions in the history of professional sports, anywhere, up there with Portland Trail Blazers selecting Sam Bowie ahead of Michael Jordan.
12 pages dedicated to watching Moyes' sack.
fecking perverts.
fecking perverts.
He should go if we fail to finish 4th.
Is his position redeemable for you guys? Can he come back from this if he wins most of the games, shows a style moving forward and positive changes, would that be enough? Or have some of you written him off now?
I just can't see it happening, is he suddenly going to change his entire footballing philosophy and adopt a more compact intricate approach rather than the wing and lump it in he's served up with for 7 months?
Qualification for the CL is the absolute minimum requirement, it still is.
Absolutely. If we click now and put in a good run of form Ill be more than happy to put everything that came before behind us and fully support him. It isnt remotely contingent on finishing 4th for me, its about the way we are playing and signs of improvement. All I want at this stage is to finish the season playing in a way I would be happy to see us playing for all of next season.
But then there is this. At the moment Im struggling to see it too. Still, he deserves the opportunity to prove us wrong on that one.
Why? Isn't 7 months enough to see he's out of his depth? Most other elite clubs will have fired him months ago, Chelsea would have done it in September.
If he got sacked or he quit in the morning I cant say I would overly mind too much. The results have been so poor its beyond anything I predicted.
But yes I do think its within the realms of possibility that he can turn it around. Probably not this season though in which case it will be too late.
I can understand that, but the question was more IF he could... I don't think it's likely, but some talk as though if he did turn it around, they're finished.
See that is the exact attitude to have, couldn't agree with you more, I want him to succeed, it seemed a lot showed blind faith in him, then when things went bad, got disillusioned and jumped on the other side of the fence, wanting him out... I still think he's not doing brilliantly at all, I'll judge him come end of season. The worrying part for me is his comments saying we played well...
I think most seem to agree then, it's unlikely, but if it does happen, they aren't silly enough to cut off their nose to spite their face... He still has a chance I think... a lot depends on other teams forms around us..
Of course it would enough. The problem is none of the things you've floated happening have shown any sign of actually happening apart from in second half of the Swansea 2-0 (H).
People aren't getting on Moyes' back because we have some personal gripe with him. If United were 15 points clear would anyone be moaning about Moyes? This isn't Madrid where the coach can win the title and get fired for not playing pretty enough football or having the right 'profile' for the brand.
I'm convinced that he can't turn it round, so the sooner he's gone the better.
Will I change my mind if he changed Mourinho overnight, of course, but it's not going to happen.
Not really, no. Ive written it so many times Im as bored saying it as people must be reading it, but I think replacing SAF is a unique challenge that doesnt compare to the usual situation of coming in as a manager. I think more leeway is deserved than would usually be given, and actually clubs should generally have a bit more patience with new managers anyway. But anyway, that has been said so many times I cant be bothered to defend this view again.
True, but perhaps a more likely scenario is he does delegate jobs and tactically starts to lean on someone who he thinks can take us forward and concentrate on other elements of the job such as man management... we've heard rumours about most players being unhappy/wanting to leave to some degree
I cannot imagine any top manager coming in and doing as badly as Moyes has managed, and top clubs need/deserve top manager. Hence he should go.
Anyway, let's just agree to disagree here.
7 months doesn't have to be enough.
Rodgers wasn't doing very well after 7 months and was looking at frankly sackable form.
Rafa was doing worse than his predecesor after 7 months as well.
Neither were in danger of the sack because they were obviously implementing a new style of football that looked worthwhile and experiencing the hiccups of that.
It was clear Hodgson was out of his depth as early as October. No football project in evidence worth persisting with and evidently out of his depth on and off the pitch.
If Moyes had given some inkling on the pitch about what he was trying to mould the team into, it'd be different. It hasn't even been fits and starts. Whatever he wants from the team, it isn't suggestive of top team football, let alone actually playing like a top team.
My biggest worry with Moyes around is what will happen to our squad come the summer, I can envisage a number of players leaving due to him.True, but perhaps a more likely scenario is he does delegate jobs and tactically starts to lean on someone who he thinks can take us forward and concentrate on other elements of the job such as man management... we've heard rumours about most players being unhappy/wanting to leave to some degree
Yes certainly. I have nothing against Moyes. I think he's good manager for a side that is in contention for Europa league spot. If there is some kind of direction, style, intention, motivation then certainly.
My biggest issue is not the results. My biggest issue is the lack of motivation, tactical sense, direction and generally an idea of how to run the club and drive it forward.
I personally think that Moyes is a pretty nice guy, difficult to dislike, but we have to be realists here, there's nothing else bar Fergie choosing him here. Not past credentials and titles, not a light at the end of the tunnel currently.
Not necessarily result-wise, but 7 months is more than enough to see he has no idea how to get the team to play modern football. Boot it wide and boot it in simply won't cut it at the top level.
Anyway, both Rodgers and Benitez did not take over runaway champions and turn them 7th in 7 months.
He'll be West Ham's next manager.
Ferdinand, Evra and Giggs will be gone no matter what. Vidic will be probably be looking a new challenge for his next paycheck given the cirumctances.
The young-ish players will all stay if they are allowed to. So will Carrick, Fletcher, Young and Valencia. The real question is what the likes of Rooney, Van Persie, Nani, Hernandez and Kagawa will be deciding this summer. I think at least half of those five could be off.
I've a real problem with the idea of selling Chicharito, Kagawa and Nani whilst holding onto Welbeck, Young & Valencia.
I agree - as you said 7 months is not enough when you try to implement new philosophy into the club and try to change things round and to move in the right direction.
But at the moment is like your new airplane has lost it's engines and is spiraling down to earth.
I can't see what will change in the next 7 months or 7 years for the matter. I can't see any willingness to change.
Who would you begrudge leaving?
Not sure if this is true, very unlikely, however Anderson has been reported to say that a number of the players including Nani want out of United.
I guess this may have something to do with not wanting to play for Moyes.
I guess this may have something to do with not wanting to play for Moyes.
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