I would seriously question the intelligence of people running this club if there weren't fail-safes built into that contract.
Moyes So Far!
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I would seriously question the intelligence of people running this club if there weren't fail-safes built into that contract.
Well, by not taking us to UCL (and possibly to Europa League) the losses will be somewhere between 30-45m. I am talking only about losses on revenue, not the other stuff.
Getting rid of him will be much cheaper than that.
It wouldn't surprise me if they didn't though. We've made a few really stupid mistakes since he took over.
I cant believe the Glazers never made contingencies for this happening given how predictable it was. The contract he was given will say a lot about how the Glazers will manage the situation. If they understood there was a risk of failure there must be some kind of clause allowing for his cost-effective removal in the event of unacceptable performance. If they never bothered to put such a clause in it probably suggests they plan to stick with him whatever happens anyway and we wont see him sacked till the end of next season at the earliest.
Agreed. Without doubt Moyes hasn't been good but the players haven't played like champions at all (except for that one game against Arsenal where everyone gave it their all). Regardless of whether Moyes stays on or has to go, I hope some of these so called champions in our playing squad are shifted out too.
Easier said than done.
[speculation] I think that if Moyes has changed completely the training and is making his tactics for percentage football rather than a more modern stykle (and our players aren't made to play percentage football), then they have every right to not play for him (read the next sentence, I am not saying the right to sabotage). In fact, it's not that they won't give it all, simply they won't be able to play that brand which makes us believe that they aren't playing for him. And then will come the shit results and the confidence will be shattered. And if the manager continues doing so, then of course there might be conflicts there and eventually players would want to get rid of him [/speculation]
If they want him gone, they'll pay up the money. It's not going to be massive amount either, compared to what's at stake.
I'm still seething that we've given him a 6 year contract, fecking SIX! Has to be amongst the stupidest things the club has done in its recent history.
I mean even if he was relatively successful, its not like Madrid and Barca are going to be queing up to pry him away from us. Why not just offer him a couple years and see how he does
I mean even if he was relatively successful, its not like Madrid and Barca are going to be queing up to pry him away from us. Why not just offer him a couple years and see how he does
I'm still seething that we've given him a 6 year contract, fecking SIX! Has to be amongst the stupidest things the club has done in its recent history.
I mean even if he was relatively successful. its not like Madrid and Barca are going to be quieing up to secure to pry him away from us. Why not just offer him a couple years and see how he does
I suppose it's a statement of intent from the club, designed to inspire confidence in said manger...
I said designed..
I'm still seething that we've given him a 6 year contract, fecking SIX! Has to be amongst the stupidest things the club has done in its recent history.
I mean even if he was relatively successful, its not like Madrid and Barca are going to be queing up to pry him away from us. Why not just offer him a couple years and see how he does
Thats a fair point actually - why would a "succesful" manager of Manchester United want to go anywhere else? Has a Manchester United manager EVER left for another job? Certainly not in the last 50 or so years anyway...
Why does that bit annoy you so much? Do you really believe he will be here 6 full years if the current trend continues? The length of contract is largely irrelevant if it's not matched by the expected level of performance.I'm still seething that we've given him a 6 year contract, fecking SIX! Has to be amongst the stupidest things the club has done in its recent history.
I mean even if he was relatively successful, its not like Madrid and Barca are going to be queing up to pry him away from us. Why not just offer him a couple years and see how he does
I'm still seething that we've given him a 6 year contract, fecking SIX! Has to be amongst the stupidest things the club has done in its recent history.
I mean even if he was relatively successful, its not like Madrid and Barca are going to be queing up to pry him away from us. Why not just offer him a couple years and see how he does
It is the second most stupid thing the club has done in the last 10-20 years. The first most stupid thing was appointing him in the first place. When you consider how stupid was that, all bets are off then.
Maybe not the entire 6 years (that's a harrowing thought) but I feel that the club may now feel obliged to give him an extra season or two even when its obvious he's not the man for the job, all just to dignify the stupidly long contract they've given him.
I dont believe the players arent capable of playing that brand of football but I can understand them not wanting to and feeling above it, they are only human after all. I would hope for a greater level of professionalism but I dont necessarily expect it, which is why I always thought this kind of adjustment (not as bad as this but pretty bad) was inevitable. Its human nature. SAF leaving was always going to leave us rudderless and few managers would have measured up to SAF. Before SAF retired when we speculated about who could replace him it was always hard to see past Mourinho if for no other reason than he was one of the only candidates with the arrogance, gravitas and winning record to command instant and total respect from players who felt they had already made it and had nothing to prove to a manager that had achieved less than they had. It seemed pretty obvious even to me and many others on here, which makes it surprising that it seems not to have occurred to SAF and the rest of the senior management at the club. Or if they did anticipate it, they didnt make very good provisions for dealing with it.
It's a symbolic gesture, more than anything. Whether it was right or wrong is debatable but it's up to the Glazers to suck up the financial loss of a terminated contract. Basically, the duration of the contract is one of the last things I'd be 'seething' about.
Eve if we buyout his entire contract, the losses are around the same (or a bit lower) than not going to UCL. So here depends, if they'll decide to lose 30m (assuming that there isn't a clause, and if there isn't they really deserve to lose them) by sacking him, or if they'll risk again with him. If we miss again on UCL next season (which I think has a very big chance of happening), he'll be gone regardless of what Fergie/Boby Charlton think.
Too much money at stake.
Not sure about that. What if they have lost faith in the manager and the manager actually clearly isn't good enough? It's not easy to pretend he's awesome and perfect when it's blatantly clear to them that he is not.
But I personally don't think there is any lack of effort.
If its a statement of intent then surely we can deduce from that they intend to stick with him, rather than sack him after one bad season? The Glazers are in this for the money so it seems unlikely they would put that much money on the line for the sake of posturing?
We'll that's not an unfair opinion but imo he'll be gone by Christmas if there is no improvement.
If he had a 2 year contract, it would still be the exact same situation imo (gone by Christmas).
Well if I was Van Pesie and I was genuinely told to play hoofball tactics I'd want the manager to go climb a fecking tree. I'd probably not kick up a huge storm but I doubt it's possible for me to "really get into the project" the manager wants to, and there would inevitably be a lot of going through the motions happening.
I hope you're right, though unfortunately I still suspect he'll be given another year. If it was just the two years then yes, he'd be off by Christmas.
Though personally if it were up to me I'd get rid of him after our last game this season (league table position pending). It would give our new manager a summer to rebuild the squad to their liking.
Exactly. Even if he wants to do it, he simply can't. Same about Kagawa and it might be one of the reasons why he has being marginized (or simply Moyes doesn't rate him at all and seemed surprise how people say that Kagawa is good). It won't ever work without changing half of the squad. And then it might be - at best - good enough for 4th or 5th place.
It isn't their choice as to how we play, it's the managers. As you say they should be more professional and at least put the effort in and try to change. I think some of them forget they are just employees of the club.
That may be true about the video games. In real world it never works like this.
The biggest problem with Moyes is that he seems to have his favourites and they can do feck all in a match and yet continuously start games, whereas there are some players he just seem to ignore and throw them into matches randomly and expect them to create magic and dump them for another extended period of time, regardless of how well they performed.
All while complaining about the state of our squad and how he needs more time to get a squad that he's happy with.
All while complaining about the state of our squad and how he needs more time to get a squad that he's happy with.
Van Persie should only be bothered about doing his job and that's putting the ball in the net and stop picking up injuries. The bigger worry for him is the ball not getting to him. We are saying about the crosses, but surely that is basic football, that someone should be able to put crosses, corners, free kicks in with some accuracy. If these players can't, get some who bloody well can.
I suppose you are going forward with the assumption that the Glazers never initially thought SAF's replacement would be this bad? Perhaps SAF told them that they need to stick with them as there will be tough parts, in the Glazers mind, albeit not 'loving it', I don't think they are silly enough to cut strings yet.
Modern footballers are all babies. They whine and complain for all sorts of reasons. But they've been there and done that at the highest level. Consistently. They've also had the greatest coach of all time leading them. Now, well they've got some guy from Everton and all his Everton mates in charge despite the fact none of them having done anything of note. In real world companies that would piss average people off. In football, of course the players are going to be unhappy, consciously or subconsciously.
There were also rumors after SAF retired that the players all got together and discussed who they thought would be employed. No one said Moyes. It's a pretty clear indicator that the playing staff who have granted Manchester United countless trophies weren't going to give there all without being shown Moyes is the man for the job.
So then what happens? He signs his old mate from Everton who doesn't play well. The performances aren't particularly good, the veterans look unhappy (Ferdinand) the old staff go out the door and Moyes talks crap about the players to the press. GAME OVER. He had no chance to succeed.
What happens next, well the champions are sitting in eighth. Now, who do you think the champion players are going to blame, after all they're winners and he's Moyes.
In a perfect world the players would whole-heartedly support the new manager but players and humans like fans. How many fans wanted Moyes in charge? Not many. How many believed he could do well? Not many.
Wouldn't be more easy and more pragmatic to get a bloody manager who can get the best out of them?
If you are good at your work and the boss is changed. The new boss has a shit CV. He asks you to completely change how you do your job which results in worse performance from you. You know that the new way isn't good. Well, I think it is fair to not trust that much that boss and not be that much happy to work for him.
The manager is just an employee at the club too. In the short term it would hame made more sense if he would have get adopted to the team, rather than making 25 players adopting to his needs. Especially when he has very outdated tactics.
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It depends what tough means.
Not winning trophies? Likely it would be acceptable for them.
Losing 30-40m pounds each year from the lack of UCL, and the club value dropping (more than 200m since his appointment) significantly? I am not sure they would accept that. And even if they trusted Sir Alex' judgement in the beginning, I think that they might be asking other people opinions now. And not many people rate Moyes.
So is the manager.
This is all stupid anyway. They're all giving their best.
But on a hypothetical note, making top players play a mid table team's style is not going to work out.
Sir Alex couldn't get the best out of some of them, the midfield will not turn into world beaters whoever the manager is.
He got a title out of them.
But in terms of quality of football, he dropped the ball in the last couple of years. A lot of other managers would improve it IMO
Then that's the boards fault for picking him in the first place. You find most managers have a style of play that they stick to. I am not blaming David Moyes for sticking to his guns. The board should have known what they would be getting. They have chosen him as a person in the SAF mould, which he probably is, Diligent, hardworking (most managers are hardworking). However they also need a football philosophy that fits Manchester United. They seem to have ignored that rather large detail.
Strange. I almost thought that we got 89 points last season when we won the title, and were a good referee away from eleminating Real Madrid.
It likely was in another parallel universe.
I do not believe they are all giving it their best. Moyes has been undeniably bad but to absolve the players off all blame is wrong imo.
The man simply simple has to go. How he's still employed is a mystery to me and probably to many others. Quite frankly nothing positive is coming out of this. We don't look any closer to be a great team than we did in his first weeks as manager of the club.
Seems a slightly pointless statement of intent if the statement was, "we'll stick with him for six years providing he does well." I dont think anybody thought it would be this bad but it must have crossed peoples' minds. It crossed my mind. Anyway, I certainly read from it that Moyes isnt going anywhere.
And most of them get soon sacked if they aren't producing results.
You can't expect to play midtable tactics with champions and then blame the players for not giving them all. It isn't going to become better regardless of how good the players are, if other things (tactics and possibly training if really is how it has been portrayed) don't change. Even if we sign Messi, overtrain him (in Davey's words about RVP), put him in the right wing and instruct to cross every time he has the ball he won't look world beater. He would look average or at best decent/good.
You can blame the players, yes they have been poor, but they are playing in the system that the management want them to play, and it's clearly made us look like a very poor side all season. There is no sign of improvement, even with our best players on the pitch. Imagine asking the Barca players to play the same way. Pumping long balls, and crossing it to the likes of Messi and co.. Not asking for us to play like Barca, but with what we have at our disposal there is clearly enough in there to play better football, and have a better plan than what we are currently witnessing. Any other club in the world, and Moyes would be gone by now.
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