Agreed, but you could see what we were trying to do at times. We got away with having a shite midfield down to van Persie last season, yes, but it was never this bad. This is the worst performing United side I've ever seen, and it's far from the worst squad, contrary to popular belief. We the fans are going to judge the manager on two main things, the football and the results. Moyes has failed at both.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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So true, he's possibly the first player I rate whom I'd like to see leave United cause I feel sorry for what Moyes is doing to his career.
This is what i thought too, until yesterdays match. If we dont finish the season with at least some respect (beat Olympiakos at least, finish fifth at least) and top class manager becomes available in the summer, i wouldnt be surprised if he was asked to go. Still i think the most likely scenario is that he will be here till Christmas 2014.
Of course he'll be sacked. The question is 'when' IMO. I hope it is on the summer but I think he'll survive until Christmas or maybe even untul next summer.
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We still have some top class players in attacking positions yet we persist with ancient wing play.
Problem with Moyes is that he has not been able to adapt to a team that attacks more than it defends.....he was an impressive coach when it came to parking the bus similar to Tony Pulis and Sam Alardyce......but by now he should be showing signs of what he is about and what he is currently showing is way below good enough....and he has obviously lost some big players in the dressing room already such as Rio, Vidic and RVP and more often than not the top players know when a manager is just not good enough and it has a huge effect on the squad...
I think Moyes should be given until then end of the season but absolutely NOT trusted with revamping this team in the summer as I just don't feel he has done enough to merit being manager of Manchester United...give the job to a coach that has won something with an attractive style of football...there's a big difference between being a winner and a workaholic and Moyes may only be the latter
I think Moyes should be given until then end of the season but absolutely NOT trusted with revamping this team in the summer as I just don't feel he has done enough to merit being manager of Manchester United...give the job to a coach that has won something with an attractive style of football...there's a big difference between being a winner and a workaholic and Moyes may only be the latter
Benitez could do it with immediate effect with Chelsea, Valencia, and Liverpool. Mourinho transform team's style in Chelsea, Inter, and Madrid. Pep at Bayern also change their style. Then you have Klopp and Simeone who have similar effect within short time.
What kind of 'style' Moyes wants, that involved a team that always top 2 in the league in the last decade, become 7th when half season gone? Where team who were good in passing, become clueless in passing?
Like I said, we do have some great attacking players. Some of them have been injured for large periods, others we just bought recently. Let's see how they do first when they're all playing together before we decide Moyes can't get the most out of them.
Sorry I should've been specific.
MOYES WILL NOT GET SACKED THIS SEASON!!!
MOYES WILL NOT GET SACKED THIS SEASON!!!
I don't know the answer to your questions. It baffles me also. But why would Moyes try to stop the players from being good at passing? Surely that is down to the players. He had Everton playing much better football than this, so clearly he is capable of better.
We've not been a passing side under Moyes, simple as that.
I think we were, at the start of the season. Then it started falling apart rather quickly. I mean it still wasnt attractive at that time either but at least keeping and moving the ball around didnt seem like such a huge task as it appears now.
15 points behind Arsenal, it's fooking disgraceful it really is.
Ancient?
We have been winning Premierships, and European cups with the very same system over the last 2 decades. The real issue has been the dire form of our wingers, lack of quality midfielders, ageing defenders, and injuries to key players. Add inexperience of Moyes and coaching staff to the mix = poor results.
Yeah....Stick by him....Maybe in 10 years time, we can hang one of these on in the wall in the Trafford?
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But its not just a mental thing and thats the problem. Its the ideals installed in training, the tactics discussed throughout the week and the confidence carried through the weeks (previous performances and confidence shown from the manager). These are the things that are causing us to see the style of play and the confidence of the team. We have alot of players easily capable of playing very good and attractive football and have all shown in the past they are technically able to produce the type of football we've seen from all the other teams around us. Now the only difference is that we are seeing managers like Martinez talk about sending his players out to "express" themselves wheres as Moyes is sending players out to do a "job". This is a very old fashioned and archaic idea of football. Football is a very fun game to play but if all the manager is interested in is fitness, drills, defensive shape and opposition tactics it can all become very monotonous and boring. Its pretty easy to see a situation where players like Kagawa, Mata, Nani, Van Persie, Cleverly etc are all being told to keep it simple and play "percentage football" where the aim is to simply just about gain victory that they just will lose confidence. Theres been alot of talk about how Moyes does alot of rigorous fitness and not alot of ball work(a lot from his previous Everton teams).
Moyes has favored pace over precision really, so it's always gonna be difficult to get a passing game going under him.
So why persist with tactics centered around them? This is what I'm trying to understand here. Moyes' game plan, or maybe lack of a game plan, is absolutely baffling to me. Knock it out to the wing, smash it into the box, repeat and recycle. That's 1980's football, mate. We're the least productive team in the league from the centre of the pitch, so yes, ancient.
I think this picture speaks a thousand words
Excellent post. I can't argue with any of it.
And not just the tactics but the same players. Valencia and Young, who have both been average (to be generous), have been nailed on for starts almost since day 1. Whereas other people can only have a bad half out wide and get dropped e.g. Nani and Kagawa or rested e.g. Januzaj and others have been totally frozen out e.g. Zaha, Valencia and Young get game after game under Moyes. Why, when they are in no sort of form?
Coutinho has been terrible, he's looking for all the world immensely overrated, a typical Liverpool player you could say. I will say you can make a case for Henderson but he's in great form, form which not one player at our club has been in, god knows what's happened to Valencia perhaps that leg break has taken away more than we know but he's still got more to offer than either.
I can see this
have you watched Liverpool recently ? They have been bordering on garbage, beating teams without the ball and relying hugely on pace as an attacking force, SOS have been the difference and yes Sterling also has been a great input going forward. Young and Valencia are nowhere near performing to ability but the shocker is that both players have scored and chipped in a couple of goals despite looking largely poor for the best part of the season in a team that has had nowhere near Liverpool's form nor luck.
Yes I want rid of both come Summer but your both massively overrating Liverpool's midfield, it's just as fecking shit if not worse than ours, they have just had a good rub of the green and a forward line that's been fit.
So true, he's possibly the first player I rate whom I'd like to see leave United cause I feel sorry for what Moyes is doing to his career.
Coutinho has been terrible, he's looking for all the world immensely overrated, a typical Liverpool player you could say. I will say you can make a case for Henderson but he's in great form, form which not one player at our club has been in, god knows what's happened to Valencia perhaps that leg break has taken away more than we know but he's still got more to offer than either.
I can see this
Young and Valencia are nowhere near performing to ability but the shocker is that both players have scored and chipped in a couple of goals despite looking largely poor for the best part of the season in a team that has had nowhere near Liverpool's form nor luck.
Yes I want rid of both come Summer but your both massively overrating Liverpool's midfield, it's just as fecking shit if not worse than ours, they have just had a good rub of the green and a forward line that's been fit.
Oh God I'm not....I'm just rating them higher then ours
I think a lot of people including me had underestimated just how boring and uninspiring he is. If I'm looking at this clown on the touchline and thinking he has no idea what he's doing, what are the players thinking?
I see your point but I'd give him another season. We are merely fans and don't have access to inside information. What we see is just a surface of problems. Maybe Moyes is not a major problem. Don't get me wrong I don't think he is good enough and I do think he is the problem but we might be wrong. Secondly I'd stick with him as matter of principle. We owe that to Fergie.You don't think he'd come good yet want to waste another year?
What's he ever done to deserve that?
This.
It must be much harder coaching them to play the way we're playing than it would be to get them passing it about between them. That must be what their instincts are telling them to do. They're too good to be playing this badly, getting them playing this dross must be like holding back the tides, requiring a herculean effort on the training ground. It makes a mockery of the accusation Moyes doesn't work hard enough. In that sense maybe it's a shame he isn't more workshy.
All the home losses are the worst part of it. At the very least United should win the vast majority of games at home. The football is shocking and we look so disjointed it's ridiculous. I honestly have no idea what he has done to offer any sort of optimism for the rest of the season and into the next. 8 losses in the league and out of both cups. Anywhere else and there would be lots more questions asked.
That's a curious statement.
Least productive because wingers and full backs have been crossing aimlessly, and there have not been many bodies in the centre. Midfielders have not got in positions or scored enough to assist attackers. Vidic and Rio have been playing too deep. Our best header of the ball has just come back. We have only lost couple of matches with Rooney and RvP in the team.
Moyes is really in a catch 22 situation in his first season. It's difficult to get rid of players who are on massive contracts, and have been the mainstay of this club for the last many years. Giggs, Vida, Evra, Rio, are in their final months of contracts. He can hardly move. There's also the fact had he got rid of players who won the Premiership just last May he would have been accused of dismantling a winning squad.
However, we feel about our style of our play it's no different what's been served over many decades, albeit with better wingers. Wing play has been United's default style of play - Sir Matt, Tommy Docherty, Ron Atkinson, and Sir Alex have all played the very same system.
Oh God I'm not....I'm just rating them higher then ours
Oh god indeed
There's a bigger picture mate but we're all struggling to see it, the form, the new manager, all of it are a massive question mark, yesterday was a mess brought on by the manager, Young was actually decent, Valencia was exactly where he should be. I am not in any corner yet and oddly since this top four battle became a battle I've watched more and more of our rivals and Liverpool are distinctly average with regards to personnel, they just have more cohesion and an actual game plan which is nice. Young and Valencia are both better players than Liverpool's wide options, that's the bigger picture but of course it's difficult to see it just now with our whole squad performing like cnuts.
I'm all for width, but it just makes no sense to me at all to build a team around an out of form Valencia and an average Young, which is what Moyes has done. Try something different! That's all he has to do! We've the best array of attacking midfielders in the league!
Valencia didn't play yesterday. Young hasn't played much this season. I'd hardly say he's built a team around them. He's sacrificed width for 'wide playmakers' like Januzaj, Kagawa and Mata already, it's not like he isn't trying new things.
Valencia has been a fixture in the side. I'm hoping the addition of Mata will bring an end to the Moyes' game plan, which hasn't worked. But even against Stoke it appeared the game plan was to get it wide and rocket it into the box, against a Stoke side that wouldn't look out of place on a basketball court.
Look where our goal came from, down the middle...
He's not built any team around Young, Valencia and Nani. He inherited these players. If anything the signing of Mata is a signal of his intent. I'm hoping he doesn't ask him to hog the touch-line. Kagawa, has been poor, to be fair. He's been given enough chances by both Sir Alex and Moyes. I just don't think the Premiership suits his game.
Its not if you play the same way you would normally play.
I have failed to understand your point here, do you actually think Moyes is trying to build a team around these people, you've mentioned that more than once now, you do realise he's stuck with these players and he had to give them a chance otherwise his head would be on the block for pulling the squad apart. He simply cannot win
but when your strike force is out for a large part your left to wingers chucking crosses at a second string and it's doomed to failure. We are a 4-4-2 squad and it's difficult to change that with what we have available, hopefully Mata will come some way in changing our attacking direction but he's had 2 games so far, we need to chill.Edit : Basically a bit of this.
I'm curious as to why no one has mentioned Giggs in all of this...
The man has been extremely quiet as of late and seems to be distant. In other words, he's not spooning Moyes in the dugout like Beavis and Butthead..
He's Mr. Manchester United after all. I would have expected to have heard from him by now....Seems odd
The man has been extremely quiet as of late and seems to be distant. In other words, he's not spooning Moyes in the dugout like Beavis and Butthead..
He's Mr. Manchester United after all. I would have expected to have heard from him by now....Seems odd
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