Eh no they wouldn't.....No way would they get into Liverpool's....
Moyes So Far!
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Eh no they wouldn't.....No way would they get into Liverpool's....
Van Persie, Januzaj, Mata, Kagawa, Rooney and Nani. That's six players out of our whole squad, from which we can only pick 3 or 4 each game. So how do we create a new style of football that only a few are capable of playing? That is my point. Midfield is such a massively important area of the pitch when it comes to implementing these new styles of football that we are seeing across Europe. We've got Carrick, Fletcher and Fellaini who, whilst being solid players, aren't exactly energetic, mobile and able to carry the ball. This is where it all falls apart. Our midfield options are dictating everything else we do on the pitch. Our fullbacks are constantly caught out of position because we don't have the mobility in the middle to cover. Our centre backs are exposed because our midfielders aren't mobile enough to get back when they're high up the pitch. Our wide players are having to perform defensive duties just to keep us solid, which doesn't really suit the likes of Mata, Kagawa and Januzaj.
It's just a complete mess. I think Moyes and Fergie saw/have seen these issues and that is why players like Phil Jones are featuring in our midfield just for mobility.
We were shit last season and our football was dire. However, that doesn't change the fact that this team was built to play that way and is pretty limited by our options. I agree on what our best front 4 is but we've not been able to implement it just yet as Januzaj has been rested. Let's just see how it works out in the coming weeks, but I'm guessing we won't see the complete transformation of our team until we bring in those much needed midfielders in the summer.
In regards to the bolded players, they come with their own issues as we all know. We just never seem to know what we are going to get from the on a game-by-game basis at the moment.
We have one of the best collection of attacking players in the league with Rooney, Mata, Januzaj, Kagawa, or even Nani capable of playing in a narrow 3 behind the main striker, yet he perseveres with 80s style wing play.
The world cup will make it difficult to tie up early signings with many players going off to join up with international squads and then players will potentially cost a lot more afterva few decent games plus the typical world cup wonders who come from nowhere cost a fortune and all too often dissapear back to nowhere (e.g. kleberson)
so yes I predict a busy period towards the back end of the window
A dinosaur of a manager. Ferguson maintained modern and fresh footballing philosophies by surrounding himself with men like Queiroz and Meulensteen.We have one of the best collection of attacking players in the league with Rooney, Mata, Januzaj, Kagawa, or even Nani capable of playing in a narrow 3 behind the main striker, yet he perseveres with 80s style wing play.
Can we change the thread title?...It sounds really perverted and I don't want to imagine Dave's testicles
We have one of the best collection of attacking players in the league with Rooney, Mata, Januzaj, Kagawa, or even Nani capable of playing in a narrow 3 behind the main striker, yet he perseveres with 80s style wing play.
Let's all pretend that Kagawa has been great and Nani, Rooney and RVP haven't all been injured for large parts of the season. Or that we've not only had Mata for a whopping two games.
Yeah and McClaren, Phelan etc. Great footballing philosophers.
Let's all pretend that Kagawa has been great and Nani, Rooney and RVP haven't all been injured for large parts of the season. Or that we've not only had Mata for a whopping two games.
Kagawa hasn't been any worse than Valencia or Young, yet they start most games. Rooney has missed a grand 5 games this season.
Mata has come in to replace Januzaj, is it mere coincidence that Januzaj has not started since Mata joined?
Let's all pretend that Kagawa has been great and Nani, Rooney and RVP haven't all been injured for large parts of the season. Or that we've not only had Mata for a whopping two games.
Its nothing to do with being great. Its about trying new ideas or trying to motivate the players in the squad.
Yeah it is actually. 90% of Redcafe was in agreement that he needed a rest.
Where did you get that stat from?
Without those players we're pretty limited in what we can do, don't you agree? Let's see how we shape up with them all available, if they remain injury free.
It's amazing just how much opinion has turned against Moyes in a matter of weeks. I think a lot the fans didn't want him here - but the vast majority, to their credit, wanted him to succeed.
6 months into the season, things are just going from worse to worse. I said after the sunderland defeat that it's going to get a lot more worse before it gets better. Sadly, looks like my prediction will be true.
I feel there is no point even talking about Moyes getting the boot - it's just NOT going to happen this season or next!! Not sure how much more of this tumescent, shit on a stick football I can take.
6 months into the season, things are just going from worse to worse. I said after the sunderland defeat that it's going to get a lot more worse before it gets better. Sadly, looks like my prediction will be true.
I feel there is no point even talking about Moyes getting the boot - it's just NOT going to happen this season or next!! Not sure how much more of this tumescent, shit on a stick football I can take.
With the ethos of Manchester United it'd be hypocritical of the club to shaft Moyes now. There is a class and identity with regards the club, and I still expect the club to act in a manner befitting of it. So Moyes won't be sacked this season, or even in the summer I expect. He does seem to have a free pass.
In my honest opinion he'll be sacked half way through next season, the club will allow him enough time to prove beyond doubt he's not the man for the job. He's spent nearly £70 million of the owner's money and produced feck all (Fellaini has been injured and Mata has played feck all, yes, but we've still been shite), it may take similar spending in the summer with similar results in the following season for the Glazer's to finally act.
In my honest opinion he'll be sacked half way through next season, the club will allow him enough time to prove beyond doubt he's not the man for the job. He's spent nearly £70 million of the owner's money and produced feck all (Fellaini has been injured and Mata has played feck all, yes, but we've still been shite), it may take similar spending in the summer with similar results in the following season for the Glazer's to finally act.
It's reality. He was given a 6 year deal and I would be absolutely astonished if he was sacked this season. I never wanted him and he is doing a really poor job at present, but I still hope that he can turn it around.
It doesn't matter really theres soo many more teams in the league with far worst players playing far better football.
I made it up. He's 18 years old and needed a break. These experienced, highly paid footballers should be able to fill in and at least achieve a decent standard. Unfortunately Young only managed 1 out of 2 games.
What else are we suppose to do? He's shit but he's still one of us. This is what separates us from a lot of other teams.In which case he may never leave, and you can be happy.
This thread should be closed. MOYES WILL NOT BE SACKED!!!!!
Could you honestly not notice the effect both Queiroz and Meulensteen had on the footballing aspects of the club when both were here? Some of our most forward thinking and modern football was played whilst they were here.
Don't worry lads, big Phil will come in and save the day!
moyes will be sacked..
Just cannot agree with you pal.
We have seen nothing but repeating the same things that do not work. If he had anything about him, he would would have made a change. Instead, we keep doing the same thing...and keep failing.
I think it's naive to think our players cannot adapt. We have some of the most sought after forwards in football - if Moyes can't get them to adapt then that reflects on him and his ability.
I hope he can turn it round too, the same way I hope to win the lottery.
He may not be sacked any time soon (as much as I hate to type that), but he'll be sacked eventually.
Do you think he'd see out his 6yr contract?
Walk into Liverpool's midfield?No they wouldn't. Young would get game time, yes. But Valencia in current form would be long gone from Liverpool's side. This is a Liverpool side performing to a different level to us, you do realise this?
Oh dear, Henderson and Coutinho
You pair really need to get a grip, I am still feeling my way in the mains but for christ on a bikes sake you realise exactly what your pointing at here don't you. Coutinho has been abysmal to the point of Joe Allen threatening his place. I expect a little more common sense from mains stalwarts to be honest.Can you be great if you play a game thwn regardless of performance get dropped for the next 3 games in favour og Youlencia, then get introduced (again out if position) and gets subed in half time.Let's all pretend that Kagawa has been great and Nani, Rooney and RVP haven't all been injured for large parts of the season. Or that we've not only had Mata for a whopping two games.
Kagawa has been terribly mismanaged.
The only 2 players who play in their favorite position on consistent basis are Young and Valencia. They have been rewarded for being consistently awful.
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You think he will resign then?
He won't be sacked until he's proved without a doubt that he is not the man for the job. Still think that'll be half way through next season.
Well, Redcafe gets a hard on for teams like Swansea, who I think are fecking boring as sin to watch.
But yeah, I agree, we should play better but for whatever reason we aren't. I don't have the answers to why not and it drives me mad trying to understand why our players are playing so shit. Moyes is getting a lot of flack for his team selections, which is fair enough. Everyone has their own opinion. But I'm watching and trying to understand why the players we have on the pitch just aren't performing. I see no obvious reason for it, nobody is being played out of position or where they haven't played before over the last few years. It's obviously a mental issue but I'm just completely bewildered by it.
Did you watch us in the last couple of seasons? The footballs been dire
Henderson would get his game for us. Coutinho has more talent and is less predictable than Valencia.Oh dear, Henderson and Coutinho
There isn't a chance Moyes will be sacked this season. He'll be backed in the summer with money and if we get to this point next season still badly under performing, then he'll be under pressure. At least let him try and address the problems in the squad first! A new left back and two central midfielders are badly required. I think changes in the midfield area will make a huge difference.
"Beyond reasonable doubt" is enough in the criminal courts so it should be enough for Moyes...
Oh dear, Henderson and Coutinho
Ehhhh Henderson has been very impressive this season...To the point, where opinions on him here have turned.
Coutinho has been far more impressive then Valencia and Young
Sterling the same
Gerrard has been playing far better then any of our midfielders...Same as Lucas...And I think he's utter shit!!
Seriously lad, I'm really not seeing where you are coming from
Agree and Pienaar's words can be seen as an indictment of Moyes' methods (even if Pienaar didn't mean them that way). Pienaar saying now Everton try to dominate the ball, now Everton play to enjoy themselves is basically saying under Moyes Everton were the ones doing the running, doing the worrying. Just like, as you point out, United are doing right now. Making it hard for Newcastle? Give over! I remember Sir Alex saying he always used to tell his players to go out and enjoy themselves. I wonder if Moyes has even thought of saying that once? He looks so racked with fear that I doubt it.
The lack of belief at United starts in the dugout and its wormed its way through the whole squad so now we have Young and Smalling bemoaning our luck. Luck?! Man Utd make their own luck. To listen to our players you'd think the stars are against us. No wonder we dont see any last 20 minute fight backs if that is the mentality of the team. Its taken Moyes a third of a season to ruin the mentality it took Fergie a third of a century, almost, to build. Its sad.
I don't know, perhaps create a new style by working with players at your disposal and mould them into the players you want them to resemble? As mentioned elsewhere, Poyet is attempting it with the dross at Sunderland. Rodgers attempted it with inferior footballers at Liverpool. Pochettino at Southampton. Martinez at Everton. Even Pulis at Palace. Yes, his brand of football is reactive, defensive and inherently negative, but he's instantly changed the way in which they play for the better. Moyes, by the looks of things, hasn't attempted to change an awful lot. Instead, we're seeing more crosses, more long balls, less passes and less emphasis on attacking through the centre, even though a large majority of the players he has at his disposal can definitely play in a more positive way. Our movement is criminally bad. All of this is training ground stuff.
I agree with you that the midfield is important. I also agree that it must improve. However, the ones we have are not immobile to the extent that they're liabilities. Moyes could have attempted to help them. Instead, he's largely hindered them. By playing Rooney right up top, creating bigger gaps between midfield and attack, what chance did they stand? Fellaini was fecked from the outset. Rio and Vidic starting every game meant that our back line was sat on the 18 yard line. Rooney and Van Persie were at the other end of the field. Carrick and Fellaini were sat there like lambs to the slaughter. Help them out. Make the midfield more compact. Play an attacking midfielder at the tip of the midfield. Allow for our creative, versatile attackers to come in and offer passing options. I don't know how exactly this is done because I'm not a coach. But my untrained eye can see that it goes on elsewhere. Poorer players than ours look all the better for it.
Ultimately, I think we differ on how changing the midfield will improve us. I think whoever we buy will encounter the same problems. They'll just make a bad situation a little better. I get the impression you think Moyes will sort the position out and then improve us from there onwards? Fair enough. We'll just have to wait and see.
I did notice it, but I also noticed that we had some of the best players in the world in our team. We had the likes of Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney, Giggs, Scholes, Ferdinand, Vidic in or near their prime. Our squad is blatantly a million miles from that right now.
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