he should just resign..
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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Indeed. I hate to admit it, but I firmly believe he needs to go.
Odds have dropped to 16/1 on Ladbrokes that Moyes will be the next manager to be sacked.
Would be the best solution all round. More chance of me waking up tomorrow morning with a fanny though.
Win?
Why would he?
Win at all costs I think.
I won't get into whether we actually play 4-4-2 or not - it's not that important either. The question is whether the out-wide-and-whack-it-in formula is what Moyes wants from them - or whether it's just a symptom of a team that simply isn't functioning for whatever reason. I think it's the latter. I don't think Moyes is pleased with our predictable, one dimensional football. How can he be? We're not picking up the points, that much is evident.
What are the odds of us finishing in the bottom half? I feel like gambling.
Mainly shit on a stick. But the sheer aura of Ferguson made it work. A football passing philosophy can be implemented almost immediately. I point the doubters to this to Martinez, Rodgers and Poyet since he went to Sunderland.
It's coaching, it's not the players. We get passed to death by mid table sides these days.
He won't, hence why I said the waking up with a vagina part :-)
But who else but Moyes can change things if it isn't functioning?
I honestly don't believe Moyes is capable of producing good football. His Everton teams wacked it out wide for 10 years. Leighton Baines was their main attacking outlet FFS.
I don't think Moyes knows how to get a team play good, varied, attacking football. If he can't manage it with a team containing the likes of Rooney, RvP, Mata et all - when will he? You can't excactly just go and buy much better players than that - those don't exist!
At the moment I think that's more likely than 4th.
I tend to take everything Fergie says to the press with a huge pinch of salt. He's mislead them over and over again throughout his time with us.
This bit is the bit I can't get over.
He wouldn't have gone to Barcelona or Real Madrid, so a 3year deal would have been sufficient.
6 years means we just have to hand a massive pay off, or just stick with him.
Unless we lose half or more of the last 14 games there's no way he's getting sacked this season.
I'm convinced that even with Bayern's squad along with Ronaldo & Messi, Moyes will not have them challenging for the title.
There has to be some sort of accountability to a manager job at Manchester United.
Given his lack of trophies, and the lack of progress, there's not many things giving him leeway either - or it shouldn't.
7th place, for example, while producing horrid football, should be way, way, way beyond breaking point.
Given his lack of trophies, and the lack of progress, there's not many things giving him leeway either - or it shouldn't.
7th place, for example, while producing horrid football, should be way, way, way beyond breaking point.
Hopefully those in charge of drafting the contract aren't complete idiots and inserted some kind of clause into it. It's pretty certain he'd have failed all of them so far.
His fate will be decided at a board meeting at the end of the season, presumably. At which, Fergie and Bobby will convince the Glazers we must keep him so they don't have to admit to themselves they got it horribly wrong.
I disagree. Moyes seemed quite proud that we got to the byline 8 or 9 times yesterday, and even used it to imply that we played well. It's obvious the team are carrying out his tactics (or attempting to) but they're not working because they're not very good, and easy to defend against.
top 4 was the minimal achievement, and we'll do bloody well to get there.
Which is criminal with this squad, however much there's a theme of revisionism that says we have some kind of crap squad.
they might be playing crap, but again that's at Moyes' door
All the targets he's identified in his scouting missions over the past few weeks will have been a massive waste of time when we fail to finish top 4. Good luck getting Reus, Kroos and Vidal to leave their respective clubs for this shambles.
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Exactly, so many people are trying to make it sound like our squad is awful to absolve Moyes... incredible how far people will go to prove they're "top r*ds".
I agree with this.
People are massively overstating the "squad is shit" 'point' when making excuses for our/Moyes performance this season. For every Rio and Giggs whose performance is naturally decreasing year-on-year, we have a Jones and Januzaj, who conversely are at an age where we can expect improvements each year.
Realistically we have far more young players who should be getting better, than we do old players who are getting worse. We have then supplemented that with Fellaini and Mata. There is no reason with that squad of players, that we should be challenging for the league. We have star players, we have depth, we have exciting prospects. And yet on the field none of this is apparent.
I've noticed it slip in more and more.
I simply don't accept Liverpool, Everton or Tottenham have better squads! Only Liverpool in Suarez even have an individual to rival our top 3!
It's an interesting question, one nobody can answer with certainty. But I will say that Moyes is and always has been a big advocate of crosses into the box. Leighton Baines was his main point of attack and for good reason. And there is nothing wrong with that, but it must be done with moderation and actual purpose. I'm sure he'd love to play like Bayern Munich as if often suggested. I would love that, too, but it doesn't mean I've got the ability to go and do so.
Big Sam would probably like to play in such a way, however, he gets by doing the same things that have worked well for him over many years. These things are the reason he didn't get the England job. It's also why he was sacked by Newcastle. But, it's also why he's never been relegated and why clubs will look to him for solidity in a time of desperation. I think Moyes is similar when it comes to the United job, although nowhere near as limited as Sam, of course.
I do agree that there is an element of the players not knowing anything different, but I don't think that is too difficult to alter. Not with such talent in the squad. I honestly think that direct, percentage football with plenty of balls into the box is the only way that Moyes knows, and I don't think he or his coaching staff know how to change that. Like I said earlier, I really, really hope I'm wrong.
Well we're being linked with the right kind of players so that's one positive. Whether he can use them correctly remains to be seen.
Given that Moyes had his Everton team playing with a bit more hoofing and a similar amount of crossing after being there for 10 years, and looking at his comments and the players he picks, it's far to say he thinks the hit it out wide and cross it in is the way to go. We were boring in the second half of last season (first half we were actually great to watch, end to end football and Sir Alex trying out loads of different formations like the diamond and stuff like that), but the play this season is way more reliant on long balls and crossing into the box. I agree that the actual formation isn't all that important to an extent, but when we play a flat 4-4-2 like for the first 30 mins yesterday, shove Mata on the right, young on the left, then it will never work. There's no fluidity about our play, no system that they know how to play in, everything seems so forced and unnatural. Look at all the other top teams, Bayern, Barca, Madrid, City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool even (and loads of smaller teams). They know the type of football they want to play from the first minute, they pass the ball around the pitch quickly, they press high up the pitch and give the opposition less time on the ball. What do we do? We sit deep when the opposition have it, we don't press them, we pass it around slowly and just rely on Mata/Rooney/RVP/Januzaj to get on the ball and make something happen all on their own every single game.
Those players will not be interested without CL, he'll spend June, July and most of August trying to make unrealistic signing and end up panic buying on Jim White day again.
This was his first problem then really. A new manager in this position should be instantly coming in and changing the style of play and literally religiously keeping to these ideals regardless of the players. If the whole idea was to let Moyes come in and build his own team surely with that comes a whole system etc. You just have to look at all the teams in the summer who got new managers to see that it really isn't that hard to get players to start playing a new system. If the likes of Everton, Southampton, Liverpool and Sunderland can do it with new managers within a couple months theres absolutely no reason Moyes himself cannot get us to do so.
The truth is that we actually do have a squad capable of playing several different formations but we have just never explored it. The likes of Kagawa,Nani, Mata, Rooney, Welbeck, Cleverly, Fletcher and Januzaj are all hugely capable and versatile enough to try different systems and play a variety of different positions. There is nothing stopping Moyes from changing it which is why I'm sure many here are frustrated and don't see the point of him continuing. You don't need a new team to try new things. How about trying new things with the ones you already have?
Moyes's post match comments of getting to the byline as well as the stats suggesting we are crossing more than anyone in the league, these suggest that this is exactly the type of football Moyes believes we should be playing and there is nothing he has shown that would suggest we are trying to play anything else.
Valencia and Young wouldn't get into any side in the top six. Yet Moyes has decided to build his entire game plan around the wings. Beyond baffling to me.
That Stoke interview explained it, he values getting to the byline more than intricate passing through the middle, hence Kagawa is frozen out and Mata will be soon.
Valencia and Young are the perfect wingers in his book. He wouldn't know what to do if we signed Ronaldo.
This is one of the things that suggests to me that Moyes really doesn't have any clear ideas about playing a more expressive or expansive style of football. If he had some grand schemes of playing new formations, tactics etc. These wouldn't be the types of players he would be relying on.
Has he ever even tried another formation other than 442?
If you asked this forum before the start of the season pretty much everyone would've had a fourth place finish as the bare minimum for Moyes keeping his job.
Now, it seems even a 7th place finish with deteriorating quality of football is enough for you lot to want this man in charge of United next season as well.
What's happened meanwhile?
Now, it seems even a 7th place finish with deteriorating quality of football is enough for you lot to want this man in charge of United next season as well.
What's happened meanwhile?
Lets be honest, there is absolutely no chance that he will be sacked this season. If he spends big in the summer and things still don't click, then maybe he might go if we find ourselves in this predicament, come next February.
What's even more telling is that we're bottom of the league in terms of goals created from the centre. Bottom! Stoke City and West Ham have scored more from the centre than us. Tony fecking Pulis' side has produced more from the centre of the pitch than us. I don't know how long we should put up with this...
Both would walk into Liverpools midfield, they would also have a shout at Spurs and Everton, I am in no way a firm supporter of either but that's better nonsense than even myself can come up with.
I really don't understand why most people accept this as a fact.
Is mediocrity more tolerable for a "top r*d"?
Walk into Liverpool's midfield?
No they wouldn't. Young would get game time, yes. But Valencia in current form would be long gone from Liverpool's side. This is a Liverpool side performing to a different level to us, you do realise this?- Status