Moyes So Far!

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You know, I come on here and try my very best to be rational. I read other posters on this site, and very good ones at that, that appear at ease with the situation. With best intentions at heart, they really believe that David Moyes can be the right man for United. They strive to see the positives, which is admirable when you consider they are surrounded by streams and streams of negativity. However, it's got to the point whereby absolutely everything is telling me that this man isn't right for the job. I've been critical of Moyes this campaign, but I still tried to see some positives when they have arisen. Right now, though, I've gave up on him ever succeeding here. It isn't happening. And if that makes me some "spoiled, "arrogant" non-believer then so be it, but I can't change what is staring me in the face.

"Oh look, he's done great with Januzaj. Rooney is the best he's been in ages." It's got to the point where I'm beginning to question whether people actually believe this, or whether it's a case of striving to see the positives, like I said. In reality, they are paltry achievements, both of which are primarily down to the supreme talent of both players. Our football is hideous. Steve Round and Phil Neville are the two men entrusted with telling Juan Mata, Robin Van Persie and Wayne Rooney how to play an attractive, attacking brand of football. Instead, however, we are watching route one, percentage football of which Big Sam himself would be proud. But then that is what we hired. Moyes is inherently negative and reactive in his management style. He alters his teams to accommodate the strengths of others. There is nothing necessarily wrong with that, but I don't think it lends itself well in the managing of Manchester United. There is zero semblance of on-field chemistry between the players. I've questioned what ball work we do in training and I'm now certain that whatever it is, it isn't good enough.

Moyes, a thoroughly decent, honest man, is out of his depth. I think this was encapsulated by his decision to bring Welbeck on yesterday. I'm more than willing to be wrong, but I can't help but think his decision process went like this: "Shit, I don't want to be seen as negative here. Let's throw on a striker. Can't accuse me of being negative now!" The man doesn't know how to be attacking. It's all guesswork. Naivety. By attempting to fight against his inner urges he just looks a bit silly. As it turns out, the move was infact a very silly one.

Everton had problems scoring goals for years. Everton played uninspiring football for years. There were positives in there, no doubt. Moyes achieved great things at Everton. He did not, however, demonstrate that he had something special. With some good signings, he managed to win games and build a reputation of which he should be proud. But that isn't enough. People, or those who don't think for themselves, have blamed everyone they possibly can for this current situation. The best yet has been "the players turn up thinking they're going to win." I'll tell you what they're certainly not… Sapped of confidence and playing under coaching staff that have next to no idea of how to produce free-flowing, attacking football, our players are essentially clueless. They are programmed into playing one way; a way Moyes has exaggerated, hence our lack of football through the centre of the pitch.

I think we have a great squad, I do. I think David de Gea can and will be the best goalkeeper in the game. Rafael is excellent. I think Chris Smalling and Phil Jones, if given the correct support in front of them, have the innate defensive capabilities to become one of the best central defensive partnerships in the game. The talent is there, they just need consistent game time and trust. I think a front four of Van Persie, Mata, Rooney and Adnan Januzaj is one of the most threatening front quartets, on paper, in the game today. It's fecking scary what those guys can do with the football. And as for the midfield, which as been pulled from pillar to post, it does infact consist of some good footballers. Darren Fletcher is a good player, as is Marouane Fellaini. Michael Carrick is a very good player. Before this season he had been the most consistent in the division for over two years. Brilliant? No. Good enough to play in a cohesive unit that can dictate football matches? Without doubt. I've said it before, but if largely mediocre footballers at inferior clubs can keep the ball and play through the middle, then our midfielders certainly can.

People need to start thinking for themselves instead of believing nonsensical, unjustified cliches such as "the players don't try" and that the "squad needs a massive overhaul." It doesn't. It needs a manager with style, perhaps charisma, that can coach them into playing a certain way. Brendan Rodgers is a self-loving prick, but he does adopt a certain style and his football teams are hugely entertaining. What is happening at every club in the league isn't by coincidence. There's a pretty obvious reason as to why Everton now play a better brand of football, results notwithstanding. We could sign Toni Kroos and Arturo Vidal in the Summer, and I still don't think much will change unless wider changes are made elsewhere.

David Moyes has shown next to nothing to suggest he has what it takes to manage United. The belief that he is worth indulging, over a longer period of time, in the hope that he pulls something out of the bag has got to be based on blind faith and the word of a sentimental Sir Alex Ferguson. I hope to fecking God I can look back on this post and laugh at it in years to come, but right now, I don't think Moyes is right for the job, and sadly, I suspect we'll need a new manager in the near-to-mid future. United are not doomed though, we'll be back at the top soon enough, but I don't think it will be under Moyes.

Wall of text, I know. Sorry! But I like writing and it lets off a bit of steam.

Sadly, this post is spot on so far for Moyes. I hope he can change things.
 
I don't know. I don't think this season is saveable. I don't think even guardiola or mourinho could get us 4th now. That's how poor the football has gotten. That's how low the confidence has gotten.

We're 7th points behind Liverpool, it's far from unsavable, Sir Alex coming back and I'm certain we'd do it.

Personally I can see him leaving re-energize the squad. That sounds harsh but all this negativity/pressure can transfer to the players, when SAF would lose he would try and shoulder all the blame or divert the media away from the team. Moyes comes out and hes so honest about everything, that downbeat attitude seems to follow him around.

Getting someone else in would probably give everyone a lift. Hell it seems to be the case with every other team we've played when they get a new manager!

Exactly, even if we can't get anyone else, have Giggs as player-manager will give everyone a lift.
 
He should be on the verge really. He's taking the piss now.
I don't think he should be sacked before the end of the season, as there are no viable options to replace him and it creates more uncertainty at the club. If we miss out on top four - even with a strong finish to the season - he should go though.
 
I do wonder what we do in trainings. How can the players be so unable to pass in between the lines? The receiver seems to have to be completely open and the pass piss easy for the passer to make it. The little angles and passing in between the lines, that all the top teams do, we simply don't. It's pure madness.

Is David Moyes this bad a coach?
 
We're 7th points behind Liverpool, it's far from unsavable, Sir Alex coming back and I'm certain we'd do it.



Exactly, even if we can't get anyone else, have Giggs as player-manager will give everyone a lift.

It's amazing what not having a winner as a manager can do to fans. People seem to just keep lowering their expectations. Most now believe that fourth is out of reach, and it probably is if we just keep sitting on our asses. We're just seven points off fourth, it's certainly doable, and we need someone who can just kick our team into action for the rest of the season.
 
It's amazing what not having a winner as a manager can do to fans. People seem to just keep lowering their expectations. Most now believe that fourth is out of reach, and it probably is if we just keep sitting on our asses. We're just seven points off fourth, it's certainly doable, and we need someone who can just kick our team into action for the rest of the season.

It's almost definitely out of reach if Moyes stays.
 
I don't think he should be sacked before the end of the season, as there are no viable options to replace him and it creates more uncertainty at the club. If we miss out on top four - even with a strong finish to the season - he should go though.
It depends on the football. If he doesn't finish 4th then we should start playing some classy football. If we keep playing this up technical style of football while city Liverpool and arsenal keep playing forward thinking modern football, I'd let him go. It's time to move forward.

I don't think it will happen personally. Classy football and him don't go together.
 
I dont think he will come good. But he deserves a shot next season. I will call for his head if we are equally shit in November.

You don't think he'd come good yet want to waste another year? :confused:

What's he ever done to deserve that?
 
I dont think he will come good. But he deserves a shot next season. I will call for his head if we are equally shit in November.
Why does he deserve another season? How do people deserve patience? Surely there's got to be some basis? You can deserve 2 full seasons just cause.
 
It's amazing what not having a winner as a manager can do to fans. People seem to just keep lowering their expectations. Most now believe that fourth is out of reach, and it probably is if we just keep sitting on our asses. We're just seven points off fourth, it's certainly doable, and we need someone who can just kick our team into action for the rest of the season.
Its really annoying too when the teams above us have faltered this season we have failed to capitalize, whenever we enter a little vein of form (and its been far and few between) the teams above us win too. If anything the gap is widening because we are doing far worse then our 'rivals' and I'm starting to put that to Moyes inability to lift the squad - I'm also thinking hes using the word "transition" as a blanket to protect him in having everyone believe losing is alright - ITS NEVER ALRIGHT! especially if you're United
Exactly, even if we can't get anyone else, have Giggs as player-manager will give everyone a lift.
Personally I would have Gary Neville come back, if Ole hadn't gone to Cardiff I would have rather seen him given the hot seat.
 
I do wonder what we do in trainings. How can the players be so unable to pass in between the lines? The receiver seems to have to be completely open and the pass piss easy for the passer to make it. The little angles and passing in between the lines, that all the top teams do, we simply don't. It's pure madness.

Is David Moyes this bad a coach?

That's the difference between trusting and not having faith in your manager. If you really believe in someone, you believe in what they say. When they tell you to pass in between the lines, you do it.

Contrast to the inept boss you have at work, who is wrong most of the time and gets found out every once in a while. He can tell you to pass between the lines as much as he wants, you're never going to do it.
 
Problem this season is whenever the teams above us have faltered this season we have failed to capitalize, whenever we enter a little vein of form (and its been far and few between) the teams above us win too. If anything the gap is widening because we are doing far worse then our 'rivals'.

Personally I would have Gary Neville come back, if Ole hadn't gone to Cardiff I would have rather seen him given the hot seat.

This weekend... :mad: We should have closed the gap to 4pts, after the Mata signing it would have given everyone a lift, but instead, an utterly depressing debacle against a side with 1pts from their previous 6 games.

I honestly don't know who'd be available right now, maybe Di Matteo to try to fluke the CL?
 
If he was at any other top club the pressure would be seriously mounting. It's been absolutely dreadful so far and there is only so many times that we can be unlucky or unfortunate or whatever he keeps saying after these losses. The sounds from the club were that he was a long term choice and that he would be given time, but surely there is a limit to this if the performances by the team are so poor?

There is no point playing the Man Utd card and the saying we are so different from other top clubs and won't sack the manager quickly and taking the piss out of Chelsea, City and Madrid just because they've let so many go. It's ridiculous to suggest that because we stuck with Fergie that we should do the same with Moyes and that all will come good again. Look at Arsenal, they have had this stability that United seem to want yet they have won feck all for years.

The emphasis on stability and giving Moyes time is really wearing thin when there has been absolutely no improvement from the start of the season until now.
 
Because we're a real club... or something.
If Moyes gets sacked It we will be a sign of us ditching the 'united way' approach.

If we lose to Fulham next week and the OT crowd make it known (which I think they will) the club may start to rethink their stance
It's going to make more than a 7th place finish before we turned on Moyes, he will get our support until he leaves.
 
If Moyes gets sacked It we will be a sign of us ditching the 'united way' approach.

If the "United Way" involves hiring under qualified managers, the sooner we rid that approach the better.
 
If we are not going to sack him then we need to bring in a truly top class number 2 right now!

I get were you're coming from but do you honestly think that Moyes will just go along with that? It would complete how far he's come in admitting he doesn't know what he's doing. I don't see him going for that at all.
 
Here's a shit-stirring question...

Anyone want Moyes out badly enough, they'd take a defeat to Fulham if it meant he got the chop?

Given some have offered things like a month's wages or finishing 17th to get rid of him I'd say you have your answer already.
 
If Moyes gets sacked It we will be a sign of us ditching the 'united way' approach.

It's going to make more than a 7th place finish before we turned on Moyes, he will get our support until he leaves.
The united way is playing attacking, attractive football, giving youth a chance, never giving up and always fighting until the last whistle. Just because we had sir Alex here for over 25 years doesn't make it the united way to give every manager as much time as they need to turn things around no matter how shit they've been.
 
He's got a free pass from his media buddies.

If this was a foreign manager the media would have crucified him. Just look at AVB.

true. But there again many players get a free pass just because they are British.
 
Here's a shit-stirring question...

Anyone want Moyes out badly enough, they'd take a defeat to Fulham if it meant he got the chop?
Only on the condition that we bring in somebody like hiddink or van gaal right away as manager (maybe hiddink until the summer until he takes over Netherlands after the World Cup and van gaal then comes to us?). Otherwise it'd be dumb to sack him with no experienced replacement lined up. Then again, even if we win I'm not sure if moyes can turn it around.
 
The united way is playing attacking, attractive football, giving youth a chance, never giving up and always fighting until the last whistle. Just because we had sir Alex here for over 25 years doesn't make it the united way to give every manager as much time as they need to turn things around no matter how shit they've been.
I am not talking about the style of football we play, it's how we act off the pitch that will change.
 
I get were you're coming from but do you honestly think that Moyes will just go along with that? It would complete how far he's come in admitting he doesn't know what he's doing. I don't see him going for that at all.

I totally agree mate. I'm sure Moyes would be anything but happy. But if he wants to keep his job then things need to change and fast.

I'm just watching Arsenal and it is so depressing to see how great their play is in comparison to us.
 
If we lose to Fulham I think his job is untenable.

If that happens, the pressure on the trigger would increase hugely. If it was any other club he would have been sacked, though we are different and try to give him a chance, however everyone has their tipping point. Whether it would happen or not, but reckon there will be talks to persuade SAF to come back to try and salvage the season.
 
If he was sacked tomorrow the last thing anybody could say is that it was a knee jerk decision.

Moyes has been serving up a shit sandwich as a main course for months now and the club has been extremely patient with him.
 
I'm not sure who was involved in the discussion, but I would have thought Gill was there? The report did say, at the very least, Mourinho was considered and it was Charlton who poo-poo'ed it.

I'll see if I can find it on-line.

He must have been. Which is my point. All these parameters were thrown out of the window when SAF chose Moyes. Must have been because I just dont see how a meeting and discussion of the best candidates could have led to Moyes being appointed. He has nothing on his CV to deserve a job like ours.
 
You know, I come on here and try my very best to be rational. I read other posters on this site, and very good ones at that, that appear at ease with the situation. With best intentions at heart, they really believe that David Moyes can be the right man for United. They strive to see the positives, which is admirable when you consider they are surrounded by streams and streams of negativity. However, it's got to the point whereby absolutely everything is telling me that this man isn't right for the job. I've been critical of Moyes this campaign, but I still tried to see some positives when they have arisen. Right now, though, I've gave up on him ever succeeding here. It isn't happening. And if that makes me some "spoiled, "arrogant" non-believer then so be it, but I can't change what is staring me in the face.

"Oh look, he's done great with Januzaj. Rooney is the best he's been in ages." It's got to the point where I'm beginning to question whether people actually believe this, or whether it's a case of striving to see the positives, like I said. In reality, they are paltry achievements, both of which are primarily down to the supreme talent of both players. Our football is hideous. Steve Round and Phil Neville are the two men entrusted with telling Juan Mata, Robin Van Persie and Wayne Rooney how to play an attractive, attacking brand of football. Instead, however, we are watching route one, percentage football of which Big Sam himself would be proud. But then that is what we hired. Moyes is inherently negative and reactive in his management style. He alters his teams to accommodate the strengths of others. There is nothing necessarily wrong with that, but I don't think it lends itself well in the managing of Manchester United. There is zero semblance of on-field chemistry between the players. I've questioned what ball work we do in training and I'm now certain that whatever it is, it isn't good enough.

Moyes, a thoroughly decent, honest man, is out of his depth. I think this was encapsulated by his decision to bring Welbeck on yesterday. I'm more than willing to be wrong, but I can't help but think his decision process went like this: "Shit, I don't want to be seen as negative here. Let's throw on a striker. Can't accuse me of being negative now!" The man doesn't know how to be attacking. It's all guesswork. Naivety. By attempting to fight against his inner urges he just looks a bit silly. As it turns out, the move was infact a very silly one.

Everton had problems scoring goals for years. Everton played uninspiring football for years. There were positives in there, no doubt. Moyes achieved great things at Everton. He did not, however, demonstrate that he had something special. With some good signings, he managed to win games and build a reputation of which he should be proud. But that isn't enough. People, or those who don't think for themselves, have blamed everyone they possibly can for this current situation. The best yet has been "the players turn up thinking they're going to win." I'll tell you what they're certainly not… Sapped of confidence and playing under coaching staff that have next to no idea of how to produce free-flowing, attacking football, our players are essentially clueless. They are programmed into playing one way; a way Moyes has exaggerated, hence our lack of football through the centre of the pitch.

I think we have a great squad, I do. I think David de Gea can and will be the best goalkeeper in the game. Rafael is excellent. I think Chris Smalling and Phil Jones, if given the correct support in front of them, have the innate defensive capabilities to become one of the best central defensive partnerships in the game. The talent is there, they just need consistent game time and trust. I think a front four of Van Persie, Mata, Rooney and Adnan Januzaj is one of the most threatening front quartets, on paper, in the game today. It's fecking scary what those guys can do with the football. And as for the midfield, which as been pulled from pillar to post, it does infact consist of some good footballers. Darren Fletcher is a good player, as is Marouane Fellaini. Michael Carrick is a very good player. Before this season he had been the most consistent in the division for over two years. Brilliant? No. Good enough to play in a cohesive unit that can dictate football matches? Without doubt. I've said it before, but if largely mediocre footballers at inferior clubs can keep the ball and play through the middle, then our midfielders certainly can.

People need to start thinking for themselves instead of believing nonsensical, unjustified cliches such as "the players don't try" and that the "squad needs a massive overhaul." It doesn't. It needs a manager with style, perhaps charisma, that can coach them into playing a certain way. Brendan Rodgers is a self-loving prick, but he does adopt a certain style and his football teams are hugely entertaining. What is happening at every club in the league isn't by coincidence. There's a pretty obvious reason as to why Everton now play a better brand of football, results notwithstanding. We could sign Toni Kroos and Arturo Vidal in the Summer, and I still don't think much will change unless wider changes are made elsewhere.

David Moyes has shown next to nothing to suggest he has what it takes to manage United. The belief that he is worth indulging, over a longer period of time, in the hope that he pulls something out of the bag has got to be based on blind faith and the word of a sentimental Sir Alex Ferguson. I hope to fecking God I can look back on this post and laugh at it in years to come, but right now, I don't think Moyes is right for the job, and sadly, I suspect we'll need a new manager in the near-to-mid future. United are not doomed though, we'll be back at the top soon enough, but I don't think it will be under Moyes.

Wall of text, I know. Sorry! But I like writing and it lets off a bit of steam.

Good post. I've not reached the cracking point yet, and I'd say it's because I really don't rate this team at all. Beyond individual quality, I've not seen cohesion for years. Again, good post.
 
Moyes is inherently negative and reactive in his management style. He alters his teams to accommodate the strengths of others.

I really feel the same here. He was blamed for negative substitutions early on and after that he seemed to have gone totally the other way. Which in itself could be a little over the top.
 
I feel everyone's getting a free pass this season. Fergie stepping down is a significant blow but it's become the excuse for everything. Why didn't we approach things differently? As opposed to everyone's saying "it'll be very difficult, transition is hard" etc we should've come out saying "it's business as usual, winning the title is the goal" and so on.
"It'll become worse before it gets better" - that's Moyes' words. Everyone, Fergie himself, have given the players a free pass. They know if they fail it'll be down to "transition". So they let up. Not by much but it doesn't really take much.

We've embraced the "difficult transition", we welcomed it, players+manager are riding it and getting away with everything.
 
We're all in agreement (most of us anyway) that Moyes won't get sacked this season. With that in mind - I think he needs help. Not from Round et all - he needs a proper number 2. Many a times the camera has panned round to the dugout and its ALWAYS Moyes talking to round or neville. Moyes needs advice, guidance, etc.

He needs a whole new footballing philosophy, but I'm not sure you gain that after over a decade in management. If he needs a number two to teach him that, I say we should make the number two the manager.
 
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