Moyes So Far!

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Moyes in truth is lucky that he's got so much goodwill in the media.

The pressure would be tenfolds as much in any other European top club. He's basically getting a free pass this season which to me is astonishing.
 
We're a long way from that point, he needs to rebuild this squad with his own players and he will get that opportunity this summer. He will then have 5 months to show what he's capable of doing. I don't think that 6 year contract means much in football, if this form continues into next season I think he will be gone by christmas.

Yep, think so too. I think he'll be given a lot of funds in the summer transfer market, he'll get a pre-season with the new signings and some chance to rework his game plan, and then if it's same shit different season he'll be gone by Christmas. I think if we're top 4 or 5 around Christmas he'll be given the whole of next season too, like it or not.
 
I don't know if he'll fail or succeed, but I said when he was appointed that we need to give him at least 2 seasons to settle into the job. Our squad is shit. We have a good keeper and good attacking players, but the defence and midfield pathetic. If Rooney and van Persie were fit all season we'd be in the top 4, but they weren't, so we're not. Tactically, Moyes seems to fail every time, but it's not entirely his fault.

Scouse WUM alert.
 
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Us this year in comparison to Everton last year
 
If the Glazers have any sense, they'll sack him the minute after the final game of the season.

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Moyes is insanity! Dull, soul destroying insanity.

Seriously though, another year of Moyes will do huge damage.
 
Then if he signs the wrong players, another poor manager is going to have another rebuilding job on his hands in the January.
If you look at the some of players we have been linked any half decent manager will be able to challenge for the league.

If this form continues why should he even be given until then?

Yes, it's not his squad.
Yes, the squad has numerous issues.
Yes, taking over from Fergie is bordering on the impossible.
Yes, it will take time to get it right.

However:
This squad did win the league last season so such a drop is very poor.
He shouldn't just be given time totally regardless, surely he should at least demonstrate he's good enough to deserve the time?

There's something wrong with the player/manager relationship and the only way to solve this is by rebuilding. He hasn't done anything to warrant the extra time or the permission to sell title winning players and replace them with his own choice of players but we do things differently at United, for the time being it's the manger > everyone. If he spends £100m+ in summer and we're still shit it's obvious who the problem is.
 
If it was up to me he'd be gone already, but he'll last to the end of the season since the board gave him the funds to sign mata. At the end of the season is a perfect time to change managers because they get a full pre season to do everything, get the players they want and start over. Changing mid season sometimes is hard and could be difficult to bring in quality replacements.

I agree with the theory that the Summer is the best time to change because they get a full pre-season etc however the season is already done then. In this situation you may as well give Moyes the time and see how the next season starts.
 
For the record, I stand by him but he has made a few mistakes. I just want to see Mata, Rooney, RVP and Januzaj on the pitch at the same time. Put a midfield of Fellaini/Carrick/Fletcher out and stop playing Smalling on the right and we'd make fourth. We'll see.
 
One of my biggest concerns is the tactical rigidity we play with. If getting the ball wide and whipping in high crosses isn't working we simply continue to get the ball wide and cross. Rinse and repeat. There is zero variability. Some of our best games have come when we have played 3 in midfield with Rooney dropping to be the tip of the midfield trio but we revert back to 4-4-2 at the first opportunity which inevitably equals more disjointed performances and a midfield not good enough to play as a two. People saying Moyes is carrying on what Fergie did but it isn't true. Several times under Fergie I remember teams getting ten men behind the ball and we struggled to break them down but we would remain patient, passing and probing around the box waiting for an opening. We didn't hit the early cross into the box at every opportunity there was far more variability to our play. Our build up play was a million times better than what we are seeing today. It says a lot about Moyes as a manager that when the tactics he's trying to employ aren't working rather than change things up he just keeps changing the players. The problem isn't the players it's the tactics. Spending big in the summer isn't going to alter his tactical inflexibility. There is no reason why the current players here have can't play better. There are inferior squads out there playing better football than us.
 
You know, I come on here and try my very best to be rational. I read other posters on this site, and very good ones at that, that appear at ease with the situation. With best intentions at heart, they really believe that David Moyes can be the right man for United. They strive to see the positives, which is admirable when you consider they are surrounded by streams and streams of negativity. However, it's got to the point whereby absolutely everything is telling me that this man isn't right for the job. I've been critical of Moyes this campaign, but I still tried to see some positives when they have arisen. Right now, though, I've gave up on him ever succeeding here. It isn't happening. And if that makes me some "spoiled, "arrogant" non-believer then so be it, but I can't change what is staring me in the face.

"Oh look, he's done great with Januzaj. Rooney is the best he's been in ages." It's got to the point where I'm beginning to question whether people actually believe this, or whether it's a case of striving to see the positives, like I said. In reality, they are paltry achievements, both of which are primarily down to the supreme talent of both players. Our football is hideous. Steve Round and Phil Neville are the two men entrusted with telling Juan Mata, Robin Van Persie and Wayne Rooney how to play an attractive, attacking brand of football. Instead, however, we are watching route one, percentage football of which Big Sam himself would be proud. But then that is what we hired. Moyes is inherently negative and reactive in his management style. He alters his teams to accommodate the strengths of others. There is nothing necessarily wrong with that, but I don't think it lends itself well in the managing of Manchester United. There is zero semblance of on-field chemistry between the players. I've questioned what ball work we do in training and I'm now certain that whatever it is, it isn't good enough.

Moyes, a thoroughly decent, honest man, is out of his depth. I think this was encapsulated by his decision to bring Welbeck on yesterday. I'm more than willing to be wrong, but I can't help but think his decision process went like this: "Shit, I don't want to be seen as negative here. Let's throw on a striker. Can't accuse me of being negative now!" The man doesn't know how to be attacking. It's all guesswork. Naivety. By attempting to fight against his inner urges he just looks a bit silly. As it turns out, the move was infact a very silly one.

Everton had problems scoring goals for years. Everton played uninspiring football for years. There were positives in there, no doubt. Moyes achieved great things at Everton. He did not, however, demonstrate that he had something special. With some good signings, he managed to win games and build a reputation of which he should be proud. But that isn't enough. People, or those who don't think for themselves, have blamed everyone they possibly can for this current situation. The best yet has been "the players turn up thinking they're going to win." I'll tell you what they're certainly not… Sapped of confidence and playing under coaching staff that have next to no idea of how to produce free-flowing, attacking football, our players are essentially clueless. They are programmed into playing one way; a way Moyes has exaggerated, hence our lack of football through the centre of the pitch.

I think we have a great squad, I do. I think David de Gea can and will be the best goalkeeper in the game. Rafael is excellent. I think Chris Smalling and Phil Jones, if given the correct support in front of them, have the innate defensive capabilities to become one of the best central defensive partnerships in the game. The talent is there, they just need consistent game time and trust. I think a front four of Van Persie, Mata, Rooney and Adnan Januzaj is one of the most threatening front quartets, on paper, in the game today. It's fecking scary what those guys can do with the football. And as for the midfield, which as been pulled from pillar to post, it does infact consist of some good footballers. Darren Fletcher is a good player, as is Marouane Fellaini. Michael Carrick is a very good player. Before this season he had been the most consistent in the division for over two years. Brilliant? No. Good enough to play in a cohesive unit that can dictate football matches? Without doubt. I've said it before, but if largely mediocre footballers at inferior clubs can keep the ball and play through the middle, then our midfielders certainly can.

People need to start thinking for themselves instead of believing nonsensical, unjustified cliches such as "the players don't try" and that the "squad needs a massive overhaul." It doesn't. It needs a manager with style, perhaps charisma, that can coach them into playing a certain way. Brendan Rodgers is a self-loving prick, but he does adopt a certain style and his football teams are hugely entertaining. What is happening at every club in the league isn't by coincidence. There's a pretty obvious reason as to why Everton now play a better brand of football, results notwithstanding. We could sign Toni Kroos and Arturo Vidal in the Summer, and I still don't think much will change unless wider changes are made elsewhere.

David Moyes has shown next to nothing to suggest he has what it takes to manage United. The belief that he is worth indulging, over a longer period of time, in the hope that he pulls something out of the bag has got to be based on blind faith and the word of a sentimental Sir Alex Ferguson. I hope to fecking God I can look back on this post and laugh at it in years to come, but right now, I don't think Moyes is right for the job, and sadly, I suspect we'll need a new manager in the near-to-mid future. United are not doomed though, we'll be back at the top soon enough, but I don't think it will be under Moyes.

Wall of text, I know. Sorry! But I like writing and it lets off a bit of steam.
 

I was clarifying my decision despite posting the image I posted above, which would imply that I am not supporting him. Thanks for adding so much to this conversation. It's a really good thing you post here. The forum wouldn't be the same without you.
 
If he is the wrong guy than you need to act NOW. Everything else is bordering on insanity.
 
Moyes in truth is lucky that he's got so much goodwill in the media.

The pressure would be tenfolds as much in any other European top club. He's basically getting a free pass this season which to me is astonishing.

Given the jingoistic nature of our sporting media, the whole 'British clubs needs a British manager' narrative is far more important than 'United in crisis'.

I always laugh when people suggest that the media wants us to fail. Those in television, like Hansen and co. are probably loving this. But the likes of Mark Ogden and Jamie Jackson, the people who are paid to travel around the world to watch Manchester United play in the biggest and best arenas? Why on earth would they want to report on a club that is failing? The print media reporters that report on United would sooner see United winning the treble, and that's a fact. It's better for them.
 
we should only look at this thread next season. I think he will avoid it tbf. He will get all the players he needs in the summer.
He will get more than three players, that's for sure. The question is will he have balls to sell underperforming elements and move forward to next phase of building.
 
If he is the wrong guy than you need to act NOW. Everything else is bordering on insanity.
If we hire Klopp and like Moyes he's struggling do we sack him after 6 months? You can't keep changing managers like that, they need at least a season or two before being asked to leave.
 
I don't know if he'll fail or succeed, but I said when he was appointed that we need to give him at least 2 seasons to settle into the job. Our squad is shit. We have a good keeper and good attacking players, but the defence and midfield pathetic. If Rooney and van Persie were fit all season we'd be in the top 4, but they weren't, so we're not. Tactically, Moyes seems to fail every time, but it's not entirely his fault.
Why do we need to lose another season?

Why do we need 1 season more of this shite to understand that it won't work?

Do we need to buy another Fellaini for 27m, or Baines or whoever Moyes takes from his old team?

Another year and Rooney will be older (if here), RvP will be older, rather than at his peak.

Our squad is shit that's an excuse. Is Rafael, DDG, RvP, Rooney, Carrick, Jones, Smalling, Evans, Vidic shite? Come on we have world class players and some exciting players through our ranks. Is Pool squad better, what about Everton?

Why are they comfortably ahead of us?
 
I agree that he'll be given plenty of time, in principle. However, surely there comes a point when it's simply not acceptable.

So far the only thing he's demonstrated is that he isn't good enough. Stubbornly sticking by him regardless of results is simply delaying the inevitable.

If things stay like this well into next season, regardless of his 6 year contract he will be gone. But he isn't getting sacked this season.
 
If we hire Klopp and like Moyes he's struggling do we sack him after 6 months? You can't keep changing managers like that, they need at least a season or two before being asked to leave.

1) He wouldn't do as bad. We know rom his past how good is him
2) His CV is much better than Moyes, so at-least we can hope that he can turn things around. The part of trophies in Moyes' CV is the same as to any of us. Blank.
 
we should only look at this thread next season. I think he will avoid it tbf. He will get all the players he needs in the summer.

If this football club is stupid enough to not sack him it deserves to go under. File under: Nottingham Forest
 
If we hire Klopp and like Moyes he's struggling do we sack him after 6 months? You can't keep changing managers like that, they need at least a season or two before being asked to leave.
I think 6 months is enough time to judge a manager. Surely by that time a top manager would be able to assess the squad and find how best to use it to win games. 6 months in we have no idea what kind of football he wants the team to play (expect to deploy a pressing game) and doesn't know what system to use. By now (all ifs and buts) I am guessing any other manager would have abandoned a 442 and tried something else.

I'll put it this way do you think another manager would get more out of the squad then Moyes is getting? If the answers yes then I think its time to look elsewhere.

Finally I'm all for giving managers time but if you're hammering a nail in wrong do you keep at it? In his time at United Moyes has shown nothing that makes me think he will turn it around and this is coming for a guy who up till yesterday defended Moyes. It also scares me to think what he will buy come the summer. I think the type of United we become is very important and the manager will play a huge part in that and I don't think Moyes is up for it, unless we are all happy being a Everton mark 2
 
If we hire Klopp and like Moyes he's struggling do we sack him after 6 months? You can't keep changing managers like that, they need at least a season or two before being asked to leave.
What makes you think Kloop will struggle?
 
There are none. Those saying it will are going on blind optimism.

Using SAF was given time argument is quite frankly a ridiculous point to make.

To put an end to this whole SAF left Moyes a bag of shit argument:

1. The players do not believe they are going to win each week.

2. The fans don't believe we are going to win each week.

3. The manager does not believe we are going to win each week.

Now, any manager in the history of sport would not succeed with the above. The problem is its his responsibility to breed that confidence, that will to win, and ultimately that expectation. None of that has shit to do with SAF...its Moyes, and him alone.

I don't get it as well. Managers are judged based on results. Results are shite, game is shite, no style whatsoever, no motivation whatsoever, out of almost all competitions by January... I mean get a grip..

I'm yet to read even 1 valid reason why Moyes should be given 2 seasons. The only valid one I see is that we are cheap to pay that 6 years contract compensation.

Some compare Moyes to Fergie when the latter was given time. But Fergie at Aberdeen won titles and European glory. Moyes won mediocrity in Everton..
 
we should only look at this thread next season. I think he will avoid it tbf. He will get all the players he needs in the summer.
I'm not so sure he will really, all the sounds seem like top 4 is imperative to get the targets we want, and we need a serious improvement in our play from now on to get that. Also I'm not sure why he deserves to be given 2 seasons to get it right. I mean, he should be able to comfortably outplay the likes of Sunderland, Swansea, Cardiff, west brom, stoke or the other bottom half clubs with the players we have yet they're outplaying us on a weekly basis. Why does everyone think that we'd suddenly turn into title challengers with a top midfielder added on when we can't even play better then the worst clubs in the league. It's not like our midfield is the worst around. It's shite for a top club but they'd all get in and be key players at mid table teams after 6th or 7th place, even young and Valencia. There's no excuse for it to be as bad as it has been, and to be honest everything that has gone wrong for him at the moment, has, apart from signing mata and keeping januzaj and Rooney.
 
Why do we need to lose another season?

Why do we need 1 season more of this shite to understand that it won't work?

Do we need to buy another Fellaini for 27m, or Baines or whoever Moyes takes from his old team?

Another year and Rooney will be older (if here), RvP will be older, rather than at his peak.

Our squad is shit that's an excuse. Is Rafael, DDG, RvP, Rooney, Carrick, Jones, Smalling, Evans, Vidic shite? Come on we have world class players and some exciting players through our ranks. Is Pool squad better, what about Everton?

Why are they comfortably ahead of us?
In fact we'll lose next season with him and then we won't be in UCL in 15-16 season too. It is even more than losing another season.
 
1) He wouldn't do as bad. We know rom his past how good is him
2) His CV is much better than Moyes, so at-least we can hope that he can turn things around. The part of trophies in Moyes' CV is the same as to any of us. Blank.
Not only that but you can be sure that he'd bring his attacking style of football to us and high pressing and you'd see it being implemented right from the start, and the only reason for him to have a shit start would be if the players struggled to adapt, but we would see signs of change. There has been no signs of any change, other then go completely to long balls and crossing it into the box at every opportunity.
 
You know, I come on here and try my very best to be rational. I read other posters on this site, and very good ones at that, that appear at ease with the situation. With best intentions at heart, they really believe that David Moyes can be the right man for United. They strive to see the positives, which is admirable when you consider they are surrounded by streams and streams of negativity. However, it's got to the point whereby absolutely everything is telling me that this man isn't right for the job. I've been critical of Moyes this campaign, but I still tried to see some positives when they have arisen. Right now, though, I've gave up on him ever succeeding here. It isn't happening. And if that makes me some "spoiled, "arrogant" non-believer then so be it, but I can't change what is staring me in the face.

"Oh look, he's done great with Januzaj. Rooney is the best he's been in ages." It's got to the point where I'm beginning to question whether people actually believe this, or whether it's a case of striving to see the positives, like I said. In reality, they are paltry achievements, both of which are primarily down to the supreme talent of both players. Our football is hideous. Steve Round and Phil Neville are the two men entrusted with telling Juan Mata, Robin Van Persie and Wayne Rooney how to play an attractive, attacking brand of football. Instead, however, we are watching route one, percentage football of which Big Sam himself would be proud. But then that is what we hired. Moyes is inherently negative and reactive in his management style. He alters his teams to accommodate the strengths of others. There is nothing necessarily wrong with that, but I don't think it lends itself well in the managing of Manchester United. There is zero semblance of on-field chemistry between the players. I've questioned what ball work we do in training and I'm now certain that whatever it is, it isn't good enough.

Moyes, a thoroughly decent, honest man, is out of his depth. I think this was encapsulated by his decision to bring Welbeck on yesterday. I'm more than willing to be wrong, but I can't help but think his decision process went like this: "Shit, I don't want to be seen as negative here. Let's throw on a striker. Can't accuse me of being negative now!" The man doesn't know how to be attacking. It's all guesswork. Naivety. By attempting to fight against his inner urges he just looks a bit silly. As it turns out, the move was infact a very silly one.

Everton had problems scoring goals for years. Everton played uninspiring football for years. There were positives in there, no doubt. Moyes achieved great things at Everton. He did not, however, demonstrate that he had something special. With some good signings, he managed to win games and build a reputation of which he should be proud. But that isn't enough. People, or those who don't think for themselves, have blamed everyone they possibly can for this current situation. The best yet has been "the players turn up thinking they're going to win." I'll tell you what they're certainly not… Sapped of confidence and playing under coaching staff that have next to no idea of how to produce free-flowing, attacking football, our players are essentially clueless. They are programmed into playing one way; a way Moyes has exaggerated, hence our lack of football through the centre of the pitch.

I think we have a great squad, I do. I think David de Gea can and will be the best goalkeeper in the game. Rafael is excellent. I think Chris Smalling and Phil Jones, if given the correct support in front of them, have the innate defensive capabilities to become one of the best central defensive partnerships in the game. The talent is there, they just need consistent game time and trust. I think a front four of Van Persie, Mata, Rooney and Adnan Januzaj is one of the most threatening front quartets, on paper, in the game today. It's fecking scary what those guys can do with the football. And as for the midfield, which as been pulled from pillar to post, it does infact consist of some good footballers. Darren Fletcher is a good player, as is Marouane Fellaini. Michael Carrick is a very good player. Before this season he had been the most consistent in the division for over two years. Brilliant? No. Good enough to play in a cohesive unit that can dictate football matches? Without doubt. I've said it before, but if largely mediocre footballers at inferior clubs can keep the ball and play through the middle, then our midfielders certainly can.

People need to start thinking for themselves instead of believing nonsensical, unjustified cliches such as "the players don't try" and that the "squad needs a massive overhaul." It doesn't. It needs a manager with style, perhaps charisma, that can coach them into playing a certain way. Brendan Rodgers is a self-loving prick, but he does adopt a certain style and his football teams are hugely entertaining. What is happening at every club in the league isn't by coincidence. There's a pretty obvious reason as to why Everton now play a better brand of football, results notwithstanding. We could sign Toni Kroos and Arturo Vidal in the Summer, and I still don't think much will change unless wider changes are made elsewhere.

David Moyes has shown next to nothing to suggest he has what it takes to manage United. The belief that he is worth indulging, over a longer period of time, in the hope that he pulls something out of the bag has got to be based on blind faith and the word of a sentimental Sir Alex Ferguson. I hope to fecking God I can look back on this post and laugh at it in years to come, but right now, I don't think Moyes is right for the job, and sadly, I suspect we'll need a new manager in the near-to-mid future. United are not doomed though, we'll be back at the top soon enough, but I don't think it will be under Moyes.

Wall of text, I know. Sorry! But I like writing and it lets off a bit of steam.

Good post.
 
Why do we need to lose another season?

Why do we need 1 season more of this shite to understand that it won't work?

Do we need to buy another Fellaini for 27m, or Baines or whoever Moyes takes from his old team?

Another year and Rooney will be older (if here), RvP will be older, rather than at his peak.

Our squad is shit that's an excuse. Is Rafael, DDG, RvP, Rooney, Carrick, Jones, Smalling, Evans, Vidic shite? Come on we have world class players and some exciting players through our ranks. Is Pool squad better, what about Everton?

Why are they comfortably ahead of us?

Carrick, Vidic, RVP and Rooney have missed a large chunk of this season through injury
 
Carrick, Vidic, RVP and Rooney have missed a large chunk of this season through injury
Rooney missed the grand total of 5 matches. Vidic has now played in 15 games compared to last season when he played in 19 the whole season.

You have a valid point for RvP and Carrick.

However Rooney last season missed 11 matches, so that kinda compensates and this season Moyes had the summer window to bring in Carrick's replacement and brought in Fellaini.

Also this season we have Janusaj through the ranks and Zaha who he never gave a chance...
 
If we hire Klopp and like Moyes he's struggling do we sack him after 6 months? You can't keep changing managers like that, they need at least a season or two before being asked to leave.

That's not how football works. Especially when your coach is a proven failure.
 
Rooney missed the grand total of 5 matches. Vidic has now played in 15 games compared to last season when he played in 19 the whole season.

You have a valid point for RvP and Carrick.

However Rooney last season missed 11 matches, so that kinda compensates and this season Moyes had the summer window to bring in Carrick's replacement and brought in Fellaini.

Also this season we have Janusaj through the ranks and Zaha who he never gave a chance...
Last season we had Rio to lean on when Vidic was out, and RvP to blast us through when Wayne was injured. This time we dont, which is basically the biggest difference of it all.
 
My biggest worry with regards to Moyes is the motivation factor. Fergie commanded respect because for so long, he'd won things. The players sat in the dressing room were sat in shitty nappies when the boss was lifting trophies. They were in awe of him. We can't reproduce that straight away with someone like Moyes. We either need to give him time to create his own aura, or turn to someone who's been there and done it. The ready made version. You could say if we were going for option B then why bother with Moyes in the first place?

My fear also, so far. Moyes needed time to bed in and all that. I'm a bit more patient in that regards. Just the lack of apparent leadership on and off the pitch is a major worry. In the days gone by, if we conceded a goal, no matter the squad, you could see we have belief that we could win it or get a goal or 2. Now it is heads down, arms in the air and pointing at each other.

Confidence is proper low, and I dont see any change from game to game. I dont think he is able to gee us up currently.
 
Last season we had Rio to lean on when Vidic was out, and RvP to blast us through when Wayne was injured. This time we dont, which is basically the biggest difference of it all.
..that, plus the will to win, the tactics to win, a manager who wanted to win a game, a mentality that we weren't beat until the final whistle.
 
Soon we'll be back to our winning ways... we'll end the league in the top 4 and we'll do pretty well in the champions league... everything will be forgotten about the chosen one... after 12 years I find the comments here so rawkish! Rise up! We are Manchester United!! :devil:
 
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