Moyes So Far!

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Most on this forum know I did not want Moyes right from the start, but I sense a sea change in opinion from those who have backed him. Momentum is starting to build. He's one more bad loss away from a real ground swell in those asking or him to go.

All this talk of being spoiled brats etc, lets deal with facts here. Take the results out the equation, the performances are getting worse. I genuinely believe most fans would have accepted not winning anything/outside top 4 if there was evidence of a style/identity being brought to the fore. All we've seen is naive, one dimensional hoof ball. It's pathetic. I will not accept people blaming SAF for that. He may not have left a bed of roses for Moyes but he did not leave a team that just lumps the ball into the box, nor one that is incapable of a top 4 finish.

Confidence is sapped - from players and fans - and there is only one man responsible.
 
What makes you think Kloop will struggle?
Just chose him as an example, like a few others I don't think he would struggle to fit in at United.

I think 6 months is enough time to judge a manager. Surely by that time a top manager would be able to assess the squad and find how best to use it to win games. 6 months in we have no idea what kind of football he wants the team to play (expect to deploy a pressing game) and doesn't know what system to use. By now (all ifs and buts) but I am guessing any other manager would have abandoned a 442 and tried something else.

I'll put it this way do you think another manager would get more out of the squad then Moyes is getting? If the answers yes then I think its time to look elsewhere.

Finally I'm all for giving managers time but if you're hammering a nail in wrong do you keep at it? And this is coming for a guy who up till yesterday defended Moyes
I would say yes, he was never the best replacement for Fergie but the club trust him and will allow him to make drastic changes if it means there's a chance he can challenge for the league.
 
@Kag good summary there.

Moyes has no big idea, no outward philosophy, no direction. At Everton you quite rightly point out his tactical planning revolved around negating the opposition threat, he was reactive to threats but very rarely pro-active. He never looked to truly dictate games which he needs to do at United. He feels simply buying better players will somehow make everything work, but it won't. It also has a negative impact on the players that are already here. He has pretty much failed in every department so far, which indicates he isn't in true control of anything other than his bowels. He looks resigned, devoid of any inspiration or bottle....that isn't the Moyes we saw at Everton. He needs to get a grip and quick.
 
Last season we had Rio to lean on when Vidic was out, and RvP to blast us through when Wayne was injured. This time we dont, which is basically the biggest difference of it all.
Last season Rooney was not the player as now. Rooney dragged us this season in RvP absence.

I don't think the injuries are worse than what we always went through during Fergie, especially with defenders...
 
His press conference was killer. A manager of a top club must never start feeling sorry for himself for it sips down to the players. He gave the media and all critics bullets to shoot him with, with that statement.

"I don know what I have to do......" - doesn't matter what follows those words. No manager of a football club should utter those words, nevermind the manager of Manchester United.

I don't understand how people think this will change. The guy himself is telling you he doesn't know what to do. What the feck does he expect from the players when he says stuff like this. It's no wonder they've got no confidence.
 
Moyes has more wins at this stage of his United career than Fergie and Busby, so it could be worse.
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That's not how football works. Especially when your coach is a proven failure.
If this was happening at anything other club the owners would be searching for a replacement but we do things differently at United. Moyes will get the time and money to show what he can do, if he fails then he will get the boot. It's basically a really expensive experiment. Im not saying he's doing a good a job or deserves more time, I am just saying what I think the club will do.
 
We're all in agreement (most of us anyway) that Moyes won't get sacked this season. With that in mind - I think he needs help. Not from Round et all - he needs a proper number 2. Many a times the camera has panned round to the dugout and its ALWAYS Moyes talking to round or neville. Moyes needs advice, guidance, etc.
 
If this was happening at anything other club the owners would be searching for a replacement but we do things differently at United. Moyes will get the time and money to show what he can do, if he fails then he will get the boot. It's basically a really expensive experiment. Im not saying he's doing a good a job or deserves more time, I am just saying what I think the club will do.

I think that will happen as well, problem being of course is that if he fails after spending millions, the new manager will be left to work with the squad he is given. There might not be any money for another spending spree. It all depends on the players we can attract and if Moyes is capable of managing them and improving the football we play. If he buys players to fit in his boring style of football, fans will not be happy.
 
I think that will happen as well, problem being of course is that if he fails after spending millions, the new manager will be left to work with the squad he is given. There might not be any money for another spending spree. It all depends on the players we can attract and if Moyes is capable of managing them and improving the football we play. If he buys players to fit in his boring style of football, fans will not be happy.

I think we will have a quality squad at the start of the 2014/15 season, Fellaini was a one off mistake, just look at the players were are being linked with. I don't believe in this 'no champions league = no world class players" rubbish, the thought of playing for United will get the attention of most players and the thought of a shit load money will get them to sign on the dotted line.
 
If this was happening at anything other club the owners would be searching for a replacement but we do things differently at United. Moyes will get the time and money to show what he can do, if he fails then he will get the boot. It's basically a really expensive experiment. Im not saying he's doing a good a job or deserves more time, I am just saying what I think the club will do.

This is what I expect too. I don't wanna be one of those clubs that sack a manager at the first opportunity and if were in and around 4th spot I wouldn't be complaining but we're not. We're 7th, have only won half of our 24 games and have lost 8!

I admire the patience of the board and the stance they have taken to give Moyes time but how bad would it have to get? Like I keep saying, he's not shown anything so far to show he's deserving of this good grace.
 
It's not about the results though, it's the fact that I can't see any improvement in our play in these 6 months, I really can't see what is David's vision for the future, it's all shambolic, we win mostly on individual quality.
 
Moyes in truth is lucky that he's got so much goodwill in the media.

The pressure would be tenfolds as much in any other European top club. He's basically getting a free pass this season which to me is astonishing.

He's got a free pass from his media buddies.

If this was a foreign manager the media would have crucified him. Just look at AVB.
 
I'd fork out a month's salary to see him get the sack and be replaced by someone of my choice.
 
I think we will have a quality squad at the start of the 2014/15 season, Fellaini was a one off mistake, just look at the players were are being linked with. I don't believe in this 'no champions league = no world class players" rubbish, the thought of playing for United will get the attention of most players and the thought of a shit load money will get them to sign on the dotted line.
I agree to an extent, but players are also attracted by managers, if these players think we are in this position because of the manager, that may put them off. If SAF was still the manager, the players would think it is just a blip, they would still want to play for him. Moyes now has to use the rest of the season to get this team playing better and prove he know what he is doing and isn't overwhelmed by the job.
 
Really? It is a thread with an opinion. Perhaps it is agenda driven but hey, he has that right to post a thread. I don't agree with anything that he says and never will. However, calling for a mod or admin to ban a poster who has posted a legitimate thread in the right forum is just not on. Perhaps you should take a deep breath and calm down mate. He is on-topic whereas yours is off-topic. @Galactic

They guy posted with emotion. Should be banned and thread closed. Endof.
 
He's doesn't look good enough to me. I hope we don't pay for sticking with him for way longer than we should.
 
Saw this from Steven Pienaar from a while back and the opposite of this seems to be happening here:

"We tried to play good football last season and the new manager actually hasn't tried to change that much because the core of the team is still here. We've just tried to be a bit more patient and not quite as direct. I think supporters at the start of the season were a bit uncertain about us building from the back but they are with it now; the results speak for themselves."

Pienaar dismisses suggestions that this mini-revolution has been achieved by Martínez demanding a certain number of passes per player per game. "We are passing the ball more but it is not really like that," he says. "The only demand the manager makes of us is to go out and dominate a game.

"It takes a lot of hard work and courage but the basic idea is that, if you can keep the ball, you are not working as hard as the other team. Keeping hold of the ball is not just about passing, it is about moving to find space and provide options, so you have to be fit. The work ethic of the team is unbelievable, though, and the manager is always relaxed. He never really gets angry, just more positive. Thinking about it, he might just be the most positive person I've ever come across; he's definitely up there.

"We beat Fulham 4-1 the other day and he was annoyed because some of the players hadn't looked like they were enjoying themselves. Winning is not enough, he wants us to win with a smile on our face." "It is too early to talk of expectations at the moment, better just to keep on enjoying our football. That is all Martínez ever asks us to do. In the dressing room before the Arsenal game he just said: 'Get over your fears. This is a moment to enjoy.' That was his team talk. And the thing is, that is exactly what we did." http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/dec/21/steven-pienaar-roberto-martinez-everton
 
If he is the wrong guy than you need to act NOW. Everything else is bordering on insanity.
I think we should probably give him till the end of the season and then let him go. Spend the next few months working out who the new manager will be. What scares me is giving this guy another year. He could well spend big, still have us playing horrific football and that just makes the job of the other manager even harder and if he's wasted money in that time buying players like Fellaini for close to 30 million, it might also hurt us financially as will loss of champions league money.
 
I'd fork out a month's salary to see him get the sack and be replaced by someone of my choice.

Me too...

I'd rather we finish 17th and see him gone then 5th and see him around for another season.
 
He's got a free pass from his media buddies.

If this was a foreign manager the media would have crucified him. Just look at AVB.
This is true watching the sunday supplement I get the feeling they all feel sorry for him. In the sense that hes not a bad manager but because hes clearly out of his depths at United - I honestly think he just cant take the mental strain being at a club like United can put on a guy.

Every game becomes a must win which much play with a guys head, maybe that's what separates the good managers from the great. The great will take a defeat and make sure there's a response in the next game where you its win at all cost, a good manager will merely hope for a win.
 
If we are not going to sack him then we need to bring in a truly top class number 2 right now!

Someone that has a fecking idea with regard to tactics and training regimes.

Moyes and his coaches have looked absolutely fecking clueless and I'm surprised that so many people on here are willing to "give him another year".

Zero improvement in 7 months. Zero implementation of any form of playing style (other than hoof and hope) and seemingly zero chance of champions league football next season.
 
I think we should probably give him till the end of the season and then let him go. Spend the next few months working out who the new manager will be. What scares me is giving this guy another year. He could well spend big, still have us playing horrific football and that just makes the job of the other manager even harder and if he's wasted money in that time buying players like Fellaini for close to 30 million, it might also hurt us financially as will loss of champions league money.

I've seen many people make this point, I don't see why we should give him till the end of the season if things aren't working out.

Does anyone really think that we're more likely to make 4th or win the CL with him around than without him?
 
You know, I come on here and try my very best to be rational. I read other posters on this site, and very good ones at that, that appear at ease with the situation. With best intentions at heart, they really believe that David Moyes can be the right man for United. They strive to see the positives, which is admirable when you consider they are surrounded by streams and streams of negativity. However, it's got to the point whereby absolutely everything is telling me that this man isn't right for the job. I've been critical of Moyes this campaign, but I still tried to see some positives when they have arisen. Right now, though, I've gave up on him ever succeeding here. It isn't happening. And if that makes me some "spoiled, "arrogant" non-believer then so be it, but I can't change what is staring me in the face.

"Oh look, he's done great with Januzaj. Rooney is the best he's been in ages." It's got to the point where I'm beginning to question whether people actually believe this, or whether it's a case of striving to see the positives, like I said. In reality, they are paltry achievements, both of which are primarily down to the supreme talent of both players. Our football is hideous. Steve Round and Phil Neville are the two men entrusted with telling Juan Mata, Robin Van Persie and Wayne Rooney how to play an attractive, attacking brand of football. Instead, however, we are watching route one, percentage football of which Big Sam himself would be proud. But then that is what we hired. Moyes is inherently negative and reactive in his management style. He alters his teams to accommodate the strengths of others. There is nothing necessarily wrong with that, but I don't think it lends itself well in the managing of Manchester United. There is zero semblance of on-field chemistry between the players. I've questioned what ball work we do in training and I'm now certain that whatever it is, it isn't good enough.

Moyes, a thoroughly decent, honest man, is out of his depth. I think this was encapsulated by his decision to bring Welbeck on yesterday. I'm more than willing to be wrong, but I can't help but think his decision process went like this: "Shit, I don't want to be seen as negative here. Let's throw on a striker. Can't accuse me of being negative now!" The man doesn't know how to be attacking. It's all guesswork. Naivety. By attempting to fight against his inner urges he just looks a bit silly. As it turns out, the move was infact a very silly one.

Everton had problems scoring goals for years. Everton played uninspiring football for years. There were positives in there, no doubt. Moyes achieved great things at Everton. He did not, however, demonstrate that he had something special. With some good signings, he managed to win games and build a reputation of which he should be proud. But that isn't enough. People, or those who don't think for themselves, have blamed everyone they possibly can for this current situation. The best yet has been "the players turn up thinking they're going to win." I'll tell you what they're certainly not… Sapped of confidence and playing under coaching staff that have next to no idea of how to produce free-flowing, attacking football, our players are essentially clueless. They are programmed into playing one way; a way Moyes has exaggerated, hence our lack of football through the centre of the pitch.

I think we have a great squad, I do. I think David de Gea can and will be the best goalkeeper in the game. Rafael is excellent. I think Chris Smalling and Phil Jones, if given the correct support in front of them, have the innate defensive capabilities to become one of the best central defensive partnerships in the game. The talent is there, they just need consistent game time and trust. I think a front four of Van Persie, Mata, Rooney and Adnan Januzaj is one of the most threatening front quartets, on paper, in the game today. It's fecking scary what those guys can do with the football. And as for the midfield, which as been pulled from pillar to post, it does infact consist of some good footballers. Darren Fletcher is a good player, as is Marouane Fellaini. Michael Carrick is a very good player. Before this season he had been the most consistent in the division for over two years. Brilliant? No. Good enough to play in a cohesive unit that can dictate football matches? Without doubt. I've said it before, but if largely mediocre footballers at inferior clubs can keep the ball and play through the middle, then our midfielders certainly can.

People need to start thinking for themselves instead of believing nonsensical, unjustified cliches such as "the players don't try" and that the "squad needs a massive overhaul." It doesn't. It needs a manager with style, perhaps charisma, that can coach them into playing a certain way. Brendan Rodgers is a self-loving prick, but he does adopt a certain style and his football teams are hugely entertaining. What is happening at every club in the league isn't by coincidence. There's a pretty obvious reason as to why Everton now play a better brand of football, results notwithstanding. We could sign Toni Kroos and Arturo Vidal in the Summer, and I still don't think much will change unless wider changes are made elsewhere.

David Moyes has shown next to nothing to suggest he has what it takes to manage United. The belief that he is worth indulging, over a longer period of time, in the hope that he pulls something out of the bag has got to be based on blind faith and the word of a sentimental Sir Alex Ferguson. I hope to fecking God I can look back on this post and laugh at it in years to come, but right now, I don't think Moyes is right for the job, and sadly, I suspect we'll need a new manager in the near-to-mid future. United are not doomed though, we'll be back at the top soon enough, but I don't think it will be under Moyes.

Wall of text, I know. Sorry! But I like writing and it lets off a bit of steam.

Fantastic post. Couldn't have summed it up any better myself.
 
I've seen many people make this point, I don't see why we should give him till the end of the season if things aren't working out.

Does anyone really think that we're more likely to make 4th or win the CL with him around than without him?
I just don't want the next guy coming in the middle of this miserable season. Moyes has ripped the team apart and their confidence is completely shot. I don't want the next guy feeling the brunt of the mess Moyes has created.

On the other hand if we replace him it might give the new guy some months to experiment and impose his philosophy on the players.
 
Rooney missed the grand total of 5 matches. Vidic has now played in 15 games compared to last season when he played in 19 the whole season.

You have a valid point for RvP and Carrick.

However Rooney last season missed 11 matches, so that kinda compensates and this season Moyes had the summer window to bring in Carrick's replacement and brought in Fellaini.

Also this season we have Janusaj through the ranks and Zaha who he never gave a chance...

Those 5 matches came on top of missing RVP, Carrick and Vidic.

Fellaini, injured
 
I just don't want the next guy coming in the middle of this miserable season. Moyes has ripped the team apart and their confidence is completely shot. I don't want the next guy feeling the brunt of the mess Moyes has created.

On the other hand if we replace him it might give the new guy some months to experiment and impose his philosophy on the players.

If we can get someone in now, he'd have an outside chance of top 4, a shot a the CL, albeit a remote one. But most importantly, hit the ground running when the window opens in the summer. No the debacle we saw last summer.
 
Stupid thread. We here at Gods almighty United are not bound by the confines of time. For the United way is far from an easy path to tread.
I like the philosophical sentiment there... Since United never die (as you rightly pointed out its God given right) nothing can stop us ever
 
You know, I come on here and try my very best to be rational. I read other posters on this site, and very good ones at that, that appear at ease with the situation. With best intentions at heart, they really believe that David Moyes can be the right man for United. They strive to see the positives, which is admirable when you consider they are surrounded by streams and streams of negativity. However, it's got to the point whereby absolutely everything is telling me that this man isn't right for the job. I've been critical of Moyes this campaign, but I still tried to see some positives when they have arisen. Right now, though, I've gave up on him ever succeeding here. It isn't happening. And if that makes me some "spoiled, "arrogant" non-believer then so be it, but I can't change what is staring me in the face.

"Oh look, he's done great with Januzaj. Rooney is the best he's been in ages." It's got to the point where I'm beginning to question whether people actually believe this, or whether it's a case of striving to see the positives, like I said. In reality, they are paltry achievements, both of which are primarily down to the supreme talent of both players. Our football is hideous. Steve Round and Phil Neville are the two men entrusted with telling Juan Mata, Robin Van Persie and Wayne Rooney how to play an attractive, attacking brand of football. Instead, however, we are watching route one, percentage football of which Big Sam himself would be proud. But then that is what we hired. Moyes is inherently negative and reactive in his management style. He alters his teams to accommodate the strengths of others. There is nothing necessarily wrong with that, but I don't think it lends itself well in the managing of Manchester United. There is zero semblance of on-field chemistry between the players. I've questioned what ball work we do in training and I'm now certain that whatever it is, it isn't good enough.

Moyes, a thoroughly decent, honest man, is out of his depth. I think this was encapsulated by his decision to bring Welbeck on yesterday. I'm more than willing to be wrong, but I can't help but think his decision process went like this: "Shit, I don't want to be seen as negative here. Let's throw on a striker. Can't accuse me of being negative now!" The man doesn't know how to be attacking. It's all guesswork. Naivety. By attempting to fight against his inner urges he just looks a bit silly. As it turns out, the move was infact a very silly one.

Everton had problems scoring goals for years. Everton played uninspiring football for years. There were positives in there, no doubt. Moyes achieved great things at Everton. He did not, however, demonstrate that he had something special. With some good signings, he managed to win games and build a reputation of which he should be proud. But that isn't enough. People, or those who don't think for themselves, have blamed everyone they possibly can for this current situation. The best yet has been "the players turn up thinking they're going to win." I'll tell you what they're certainly not… Sapped of confidence and playing under coaching staff that have next to no idea of how to produce free-flowing, attacking football, our players are essentially clueless. They are programmed into playing one way; a way Moyes has exaggerated, hence our lack of football through the centre of the pitch.

I think we have a great squad, I do. I think David de Gea can and will be the best goalkeeper in the game. Rafael is excellent. I think Chris Smalling and Phil Jones, if given the correct support in front of them, have the innate defensive capabilities to become one of the best central defensive partnerships in the game. The talent is there, they just need consistent game time and trust. I think a front four of Van Persie, Mata, Rooney and Adnan Januzaj is one of the most threatening front quartets, on paper, in the game today. It's fecking scary what those guys can do with the football. And as for the midfield, which as been pulled from pillar to post, it does infact consist of some good footballers. Darren Fletcher is a good player, as is Marouane Fellaini. Michael Carrick is a very good player. Before this season he had been the most consistent in the division for over two years. Brilliant? No. Good enough to play in a cohesive unit that can dictate football matches? Without doubt. I've said it before, but if largely mediocre footballers at inferior clubs can keep the ball and play through the middle, then our midfielders certainly can.

People need to start thinking for themselves instead of believing nonsensical, unjustified cliches such as "the players don't try" and that the "squad needs a massive overhaul." It doesn't. It needs a manager with style, perhaps charisma, that can coach them into playing a certain way. Brendan Rodgers is a self-loving prick, but he does adopt a certain style and his football teams are hugely entertaining. What is happening at every club in the league isn't by coincidence. There's a pretty obvious reason as to why Everton now play a better brand of football, results notwithstanding. We could sign Toni Kroos and Arturo Vidal in the Summer, and I still don't think much will change unless wider changes are made elsewhere.

David Moyes has shown next to nothing to suggest he has what it takes to manage United. The belief that he is worth indulging, over a longer period of time, in the hope that he pulls something out of the bag has got to be based on blind faith and the word of a sentimental Sir Alex Ferguson. I hope to fecking God I can look back on this post and laugh at it in years to come, but right now, I don't think Moyes is right for the job, and sadly, I suspect we'll need a new manager in the near-to-mid future. United are not doomed though, we'll be back at the top soon enough, but I don't think it will be under Moyes.

Wall of text, I know. Sorry! But I like writing and it lets off a bit of steam.
Very good post, as others have pointed out.
 
If we can get someone in now, he'd have an outside chance of top 4, a shot a the CL, albeit a remote one. But most importantly, hit the ground running when the window opens in the summer. No the debacle we saw last summer.
I don't know. I don't think this season is saveable. I don't think even guardiola or mourinho could get us 4th now. That's how poor the football has gotten. That's how low the confidence has gotten.
 
Does anyone really think that we're more likely to make 4th or win the CL with him around than without him?
Personally I can see him leaving re-energize the squad. That sounds harsh but all this negativity/pressure can transfer to the players, when SAF would lose he would try and shoulder all the blame or divert the media away from the team. Moyes comes out and hes so honest about everything, that downbeat attitude seems to follow him around.

Getting someone else in would probably give everyone a lift. Hell it seems to be the case with every other team we've played when they get a new manager!
 
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