Moyes So Far!

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Looking at this I am reminded of how we used to cross much more under kenny in his full season. There was this quote from the secret footballer at the time that might be pertinent to Moyes' outlook:

“At Liverpool Comolli has relied more heavily on the so-called “Moneyball philosophy” (which, irritatingly, has also infiltrated my club), which argues, among other things, that a team that wins more than 40 headers, or crosses the ball more than 30 times or makes 12 regains in the final third, will nearly always win”.
 
I deliberately stayed away last night for fear of saying something regretful, but I'm still perplexed at what to say about yesterday.

One word sums up the feeling, though: alarming.
 
Its an odd one. There are some things which everyone just does know. Like how Hoddle needed to pick Beckham and Owen in France 98 (weird random example I know)...Everyone said it, everyone knew it. He resisted, we lost, played them next game, we won, everyone went "yeah we knew that"
The appointment of Moyes was one of those things. Every opposition fan - literally every single one - knew it would be a disaster. About 80% of United fans knew it.
 
The obssession with high crosses is infuriating. Our best chances came when the ball was played to the striker's feet ie the RVP goal the 2 chances Welbeck blew. The only other time we caused havoc in the box was from Chicha and Evra's cutbacks. Imo unless it's a corner or freekick the ball should never leave the ground. We are not Westham or Stoke we have RVP, Rooney, Mata, Januzaj all of them are comfortable with the ball and can shoot. Why do we continue to play like we have Andy Carrol, Kevin Nolan and Crouch? Keep the ball on the ground. If you watch any top team Barca, Real, Bayern, City etc the likes of Reus, Ribery, Robben, Di Maria, Navas Pedro, Alexis, rarely make high crosses. It's always cutbacks or passes into the box that the strikers and midfielders can latch onto and shoot. Does Moyes ever pay attention to how other teams play when he goes on his scouting trips? Even Mata who can split a defense is now making these silly crosses that are aimed at noone.
 
The appointment of Moyes was one of those things. Every opposition fan - literally every single one - knew it would be a disaster. About 80% of United fans knew it.
Sometimes we do things that you just know aren't going to end well. Like signing Owen and Valencia in place of Ronaldo and Tevez. Appointing Moyes felt a bit like that.

And because all our fans think it's a mistake I think in the back of my mind "Do the powers that be at United have a masterplan? They must have done this for a reason, all us regular folk can't be right and you Millionaires be wrong, surely? There must be a stroke of genius to this that we can't see.." But there never is.. It's just bizaree..
 
The appointment of Moyes was one of those things. Every opposition fan - literally every single one - knew it would be a disaster. About 80% of United fans knew it.

I was one of those 80% initially, Mike, but got behind Moyes when he got the gig. After all, what good would moaning do? I still hope he turns it around and I'd take more satisfaction from success with Moyes than starting afresh with somebody else. However, it's looking more unlikely by the day.

What a depressing winter we've had. December and January have been brutal. Moyes and the players are making it difficult for us to defy our critics and hold our heads high at the moment. Monday mornings in work are he'll these days!
 
Said this in the style of play thread: Might sound harsh but Moyes shouldn't be allowed to spend another penny on transfers until proves he can get this lot playing good football. It's not like we are playing good football but just not getting the results because the players aren't good enough. They are good enough the reason we aren't getting the results is because the football they're being instructed to play is fecking shit. There are teams in the PL and other leagues with far inferior players, who are managing to consistently play better football than us. It's not good enough in a team with RvP, Rooney, Mata, Januzaj, Kagawa... Get this lot playing better before he signs more players because what's the point bringing quality players in when the tactics and style will remain the same?
 
I always thought this would be a tough season. I didnt think it would be quite this bad. I would like to see Moyes turn it around simply because I like triumph over adversity stories but to be honest I just cant see that happening. I see little hints of change and improvement but then that gets clouded over by poor performances. I did use the phrase 2 steps forward and 1 step back but right now it feels like 1 step forward and 2 steps back.
 
I was one of those 80% initially, Mike, but got behind Moyes when he got the gig. After all, what good would moaning do? I still hope he turns it around and I'd take more satisfaction from success with Moyes than starting afresh with somebody else. However, it's looking more unlikely by the day.

What a depressing winter we've had. December and January have been brutal. Moyes and the players are making it difficult for us to defy our critics and hold our heads high at the moment. Monday mornings in work are he'll these days!
You were one of the most optimistic posters a few weeks back. I applaud you for it but it's hard not to see the hope drained away after performances like that.
 
The appointment of Moyes was one of those things. Every opposition fan - literally every single one - knew it would be a disaster. About 80% of United fans knew it.

I think there have been times of uncertainty, even during Fergie’s magnificent reign, but the man always steered us right again. Although not my choice, this is the belief I had when Ferguson made his choice of David Moyes.

I think if Moyes doesn’t get it right, and is sacked, this will be my biggest disappointment.

Then we will finally be cut adrift of the Ferguson era and in the arena of "I hope this new manager gets it right..." all over again* and so on.

*grew up with Big Ron.
 
The appointment of Moyes was one of those things. Every opposition fan - literally every single one - knew it would be a disaster. About 80% of United fans knew it.

I said from day one it was the wrong decision. I cannot believe we appointed him.

We only have ourselves to blame, we let SAF handpick his own successor without any kind of recruitment process - for the manager position of Manchester United that is fecking incredible.

I honestly cannot see the needs time argument, everything is pointing towards him failing. You know, sometimes if it looks like a shit and smells like a shit, then it is a fecking shit! Time wont change that.

Ps. Before anyone pipes in with to protect our identity, we don't sack managers - tell me how many we sacked post Busby.....exactly. Notion of this not hiring/firing is because SAF got given time. We have sacked plenty.
 
You were one of the most optimistic posters a few weeks back. I applaud you for it but it's hard not to see the hope drained away after performances like that.

I was, yes. November wasn't too bad for us and we weren't far away. The consecutive home defeats to Everton and Newcastle were shambolic and completely derailed our momentum. January was abysmal, and February has started in the same vein.

I still am optimistic about getting fourth (more fool me, eh?) but the hope is dissipating by the week.

Moyes has a monumental task on his hands. A tough gig just got a whole lot tougher.
 
I said from day one it was the wrong decision. I cannot believe we appointed him.

We only have ourselves to blame, we let SAF handpick his own successor without any kind of recruitment process - for the manager position of Manchester United that is fecking incredible.

I honestly cannot see the needs time argument, everything is pointing towards him failing. You know, sometimes if it looks like a shit and smells like a shit, then it is a fecking shit! Time wont change that.

Ps. Before anyone pipes in with to protect our identity, we don't sack managers - tell me how many we sacked post Busby.....exactly. Notion of this not hiring/firing is because SAF got given time. We have sacked plenty.

I find this to be quite remarkable as well. Its the sort of thing one might expect from a narcissistic, sugar daddy owner like Roman, but not United. We should have embarked on a proper list of candidates, vetted each of them, and hired the right one.
 
We have had more attempted crosses in the league than anybody else and we rank 20th in terms of attacks through the middle.

20th. Below Stoke; below Fulham; below West fecking Ham.

20th.

Jesus wept.

Surprising but not completely unexpected. His justification of our performance yesterday was that we got to the byline 9-10 times. Enough said.
 
He could make quite a statement by getting 3 points at Arsenal.
Is it much of a statement though when the three points against Arsenal at home was followed by draws to Cardiff and Tottenham and losses to Everton and Newcastle. For every step forward it seems there are at least two back.
I was, yes. November wasn't too bad for us and we weren't far away. The consecutive home defeats to Everton and Newcastle were shambolic and completely derailed our momentum. January was abysmal, and February has started in the same vein.

I still am optimistic about getting fourth (more fool me, eh?) but the hope is dissipating by the week.

Moyes has a monumental task on his hands. A tough gig just got a whole lot tougher.
Yeah the Arsenal win had us perfectly poised not just to challenge for the top 4 but for the title and we imploded. If Liverpool beat West Brom today then we need them to drop >9 points to claim 4th whilst we would have to win every game. It's hard to see that as likely.
 
This really isn't a particular game you could blame him for. All in all he has been poor though.
 
I had this daft idea that signing Mata had helped lift spirits in the United camp. I even thought it was a great sign that Moyes was actually smiling and talking with confidence in the press conference that followed - not just that faked look of "whistling in the dark" bravado that he'd been showing in other press confidences.

Even yesterday, I was optimistic on seeing the team sheet. I was even convinced that after RvP got the equaliser we'd come out and win the second half.

But then came that substituton, Jones for Welbeck. OK, so instead of playing one player (Carrick) out of position, we reshuffled the entire team and yet still left Mata playing wide. They went ahead and we collapsed, clueless and largely without a struggle. High crosses and long balls are bad enough, but against Stoke, and with that gale blowing?

Moyes teams, so we were told, are organised, fit and capable of delivering beyond what's expected of that grade of player. Somebody's missed out the bit where it should be visible on the field of play. Stoke actually looked more dangerous that us in the second half. Stoke. We may not have had a title winning first XI this year, but that was Stoke we were playing. Stoke who clambered out of the relegation places with the three points.

We've lost to relegation contenders before and if it was a one off, discussions of bad luck with injuries, the weather and deflections and even phrases like "a bad day at the office" can be used. However, it wasn't a one off, it was more of the same. SAF made it pretty clear there will be no rush to early judgment by the board, however I hope they're not so stubborn or naive that they'll say the same thing, if nothing changes by May.
 
On no account is this true, you insane nincompoop! This assembly of football players is not of the highest caliber, most certainly. Please indulge me, seventh place in February, incredible. Being placed within the top four should be the complete and utter minutest that ginger cnut should be producing from the players at his disposal, to be honest it should be top three.

Performing identical dreadful football match after match, managers fault more than anyone else.

It was not the content of what she said, it was ye and the ya and Jesus on a push bike reference, it's just plain daft, but while we are at it.

Being where we are is a complete disaster for a squad that won the previous years league but this has been overdue with the lack of and poor investment in the squad recently. The midfield issue has been papered over by having the leagues best finisher and a talisman like Rooney to feed off, having no proper wingers of any note, no first team strikers for long spells, a makeshift midfield a sick note and a liability as fullbacks, center backs shifted around all over, into midfield across to the right. I get that it's shite I get this but surely people see the glaring elephant or in this case elephants in the room.
I will in no way defend Moyes for what happened yesterday, he had a midfielder on the bench when Carrick had to be shunted into yet another changed defence but he chose to drag Rooney out of position instead to replace the CB in midfield and bring in a CF to play wide when we had wide players warming the bench. The game was doomed from there on in, even after we equalised the team was so unbalanced I didn't fancy us for a minute.
It was a huge opportunity to put real pressure on those ahead and for want of a better expression Moyes bottled it IMO, he seems incapable of doing things his own sensible way when it comes to substitutions, perhaps a fear of being labelled a negative coach has him bringing in attacking players when yesterday we should have shored it up and at least tried find some balance and limp to half time.
The players carry some of the can too Evra is shocking as a LB, he needs sitting down and reaffirming that his position has the word "back" in it for a reason. I actually had high hopes for TC making a forward pass seeing he had Mata ahead of him but again he was averagely awful, then we had Rooney playing hollywoods on top of a hill in a hurricane, I was waiting for the penny to drop at some point but it didn't, Mata was the only one that seemed to realise we had to get it on the floor and play football with it.
Moyes comments that we played well did have a ring of truth in it but only up until the 40th minute, we again got nothing off the officials and can you believe that MOTD missed the assault on Young down the left, it didn't even make the show along with a penalty claim that was also missed, if your looking for reason to believe there's an agenda then look no further.
I am not trying to defend Moyes here, the football is crap on crap on crap, I am just trying to keep perspective as to why, just as we get our best attacking players back the defence gets hit with a crisis, you really couldn't make it up. I generally try to remain positive but 3 points at West Brom and it's a near impossible task, even if we get our front men match fit and firing we are still a colander at the back.
 
I had this daft idea that signing Mata had helped lift spirits in the United camp. I even thought it was a great sign that Moyes was actually smiling and talking with confidence in the press conference that followed - not just that faked look of "whistling in the dark" bravado that he'd been showing in other press confidences.

Even yesterday, I was optimistic on seeing the team sheet. I was even convinced that after RvP got the equaliser we'd come out and win the second half.

But then came that substituton, Jones for Welbeck. OK, so instead of playing one player (Carrick) out of position, we reshuffled the entire team and yet still left Mata playing wide. They went ahead and we collapsed, clueless and largely without a struggle. High crosses and long balls are bad enough, but against Stoke, and with that gale blowing?

Moyes teams, so we were told, are organised, fit and capable of delivering beyond what's expected of that grade of player. Somebody's missed out the bit where it should be visible on the field of play. Stoke actually looked more dangerous that us in the second half. Stoke. We may not have had a title winning first XI this year, but that was Stoke we were playing. Stoke who clambered out of the relegation places with the three points.

We've lost to relegation contenders before and if it was a one off, discussions of bad luck with injuries, the weather and deflections and even phrases like "a bad day at the office" can be used. However, it wasn't a one off, it was more of the same. SAF made it pretty clear there will be no rush to early judgment by the board, however I hope they're not so stubborn or naive that they'll say the same thing, if nothing changes by May.

Knowing Sir Alex mate, if he still has a huge say in it, I'd be amazed if Moyes got the boot anytime soon.
 
I'm starting to think that all Moyes does with the players in training is make them run. Under Moyes we seemed to have lost the ability to play football. Our game has become a hoof it up the field game, which is disappointing to watch as we have some hugely talented players capable of so much more.
 
I find this to be quite remarkable as well. Its the sort of thing one might expect from a narcissistic, sugar daddy owner like Roman, but not United. We should have embarked on a proper list of candidates, vetted each of them, and hired the right one.

Exactly. List of 6 names, debate with club hierarchy then shortlist to 3 and interview..i.e. The way any business would appoint a key position.

In this case, people make calculated decisions. A person on the other hand makes a sentimental decision.
 
It is rapidly looking as if he's missing a clue. Mata, Rooney an RVP on the pitch together. Granted two have been injured a lot, the other lacks football and the trio have never played together before but surely there should have been...something there. All this talk of summer spending worries me a bit. I know Mata only signed 5 minutes ago but he's taken the run-away league champions and with now a combined £66m and the hottest youth prospect we've had in many, many years - we've turned to this.

I'm not saying I'd sack him or anything but part of me worries that if we break the bank in the summer it'll be like throwing good money after bad. I'd accept not challenging for the title as the new manager acclimatises but what we have seen amounts pretty much to an utter capitulation.
 
I find this to be quite remarkable as well. Its the sort of thing one might expect from a narcissistic, sugar daddy owner like Roman, but not United. We should have embarked on a proper list of candidates, vetted each of them, and hired the right one.

Barca had the likes of Mourinho make presentations on why they should get the job. That's when they later picked Guardiola.
 
I'm starting to think that all Moyes does with the players in training is make them run. Under Moyes we seemed to have lost the ability to play football. Our game has become a hoof it up the field game, which is disappointing to watch as we have some hugely talented players capable of so much more.

A lot will laugh here but have a look at the first touch of many if our players. They are all giving off a "haven't seen a football in weeks" vibe
 
If they end up winning, people will slate Moyes even further and bang on about how he shouldn't have been chosen over Meulensteen.
I think the worst thing that could happen for Moyes is if Everton won the F.A. Cup and even worster if they got 4th place. Can you imagine the flak on here and the grief he would get of Everton fans?
 
Barca had the likes of Mourinho make presentations on why they should get the job. That's when they later picked Guardiola.

I know you're making a serious point, but just imagining the presentation in my head is funny. Coupled with your punchline...
 
I'm not saying I'd sack him or anything but part of me worries that if we break the bank in the summer it'll be like throwing good money after bad. I'd accept not challenging for the title as the new manager acclimatises but what we have seen amounts pretty much to an utter capitulation.

At least Moyes seems to want to go after top players. I don't think that he could win the Premier League with bayern's current squad but at least when he eventually gets sacked (it is just a question of when) we will have so e good players for the new man to work with.
 
I know you're making a serious point, but just imagining the presentation in my head is funny. Coupled with your punchline...

Apparently Mourinho asked why the feck was Cryuff there. The balls on the man. ha. :lol:

I seriously dont mind SAF choosing his successor. It could have been handled better, yes, but letting him pick was a good decision too. The problem starts now. If we do understand and realize that Moyes wont cut it, we have to act fast and decisively. I understand he wants better players but if he cant get atleast somewhere close to good football and results with the current lot, I wouldnt want to trust him with big spending in the summer. Let the new manager with his ideas pick his players.
 
The only thing thing I'm looking forward to in this season is the possibility of us taking points off City, Arsenal and Liverpool in the hope that it dampens their title chances and allows Chelsea to win the league. Its very RAWK-ish and smalltime but our season's done :(
 
People would be more forgiving ifv they can see tge direction and footballing philosophy if the manager despite the results. With moyes, we can't see any of that. Dinosaur tactics, stupid substitutions and just someone who looks like he himself hasn't got a clue what he's doing.
 
Is it feck ya mad cnut ye! The squad isn't the greatest, obviously like. But feck me, 7th place in February, Christ on a bike. Being in the top 4 should be the absolute minimum Moyes should be getting out of these players, tbh it should be top 3.

Playing the same awful football match after match, managers fault more than anyone else.

Thank you for giving me a laugh on a Sunday morning when I am pissed off by another substandard performance, I can picture you hitting the keyboard for that opening comment :).

But you make a totally relevant comment which I have highlighted, It is the minimum that I expected this season , I really thought Moyes could be successful, maybe I was in a minority of United fans
who thought that , I just thought at the time of his appointment maybe he could be a perfect successor to Fergie , Hardline , no nonsense and the right man to replace the most successful manager
in United's history , Can he turn it around ? I honestly don't know ,I hope he can ,but the way the team plays at the moment I cannot see us getting in the top four.

There is just a total lack of leadership on the pitch , no drive, no determination, no one to take the game by the scruff of the neck , The drive and determination comes from within a player but the manager has a massive influence by motivating his players to succeed, we have a squad who have the ability to be in the top four without a shadow of a doubt , but ability doesn't get you anywhere without the want and desire to win and that's what our team is lacking.

I am changing my mind on whether he is the right man for the job ,it was his right as manager to bring his own backroom staff in ,I think he made a massive mistake, they are shit ! and United is too big a club to have a new manager and a bunch of clueless feckwits running everything else.

If the club had appointed Albert the kitman as the new manager and kept all the coaches I honestly believe we would be in a better position now and I am not kidding.
 
The only thing thing I'm looking forward to in this season is the possibility of us taking points off City, Arsenal and Liverpool in the hope that it dampens their title chances and allows Chelsea to win the league. Its very RAWK-ish and smalltime but our season's done :(

Liverpool are out of the title chase. The top three aren't going to slip up at this point. Its between City and Chelsea imo.
 
The only thing David Moyes successfully managed to do at United was suck out the confidence of each and every player.
 
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