Agreed. I read it as quite supportive of Moyes, Im sure that is how it was intended or he wouldnt be drawing parrallels between now and the early days of SAF's tenure, the message being, change is always difficult but player grumbling is to be expected and is hardly evidence that things are rotten. I would be slightly kinder to the players, obviously it shows a lack of professionalism but also that it is just human nature, a lot of big players have experienced this kind of problem but the thing to do it tackle it head on and move on. which is exactly what I think will happen.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
- Start date
- Status
Aye. One could perhaps even say that it's inevitable. A power change of this kind - well, someone ends up uncomfortable. Would be strange indeed if everything went perfectly smooth. At any rate, this isn't particular to David Moyes or his methods - it happens all the time when power shifts, not least power that hasn't shifted for such a long time. What we can hope for is that these senior figures are few in number and players of the sort who are probably better off leaving anyway - for the sake of their own careers. Rio, Vidic, Evra - all great players for us, but all players who can be replaced (and who perhaps should be replaced regardless of this possible situation).
As centerback, neither Vidic nor Ferdinand would involve much on the game, so the change of tactic shouldn't really impact their style of play.
So common sense tell me that both underperformed isn't because of they can't fit in the tactic (which is not much different, anyway). But the problem is deeper than that.
So common sense tell me that both underperformed isn't because of they can't fit in the tactic (which is not much different, anyway). But the problem is deeper than that.
True Adebesi. I was perhaps a little harsh there on the players. No-one likes change and no-one is going to be too happy when that change is coming at their expense.
Not just the tactics though, the training methods and their perceived seniority in the squad.
Yes. The training. Both Vidic and Rio were/are worldclass, with previous training method. Why the need go change it then? Just because?
Probably because a new manager came in and wants to lead instead of bring a passenger.
Its expected that methods will change with the new manager, and to be honest, its difficult to tell whether its Moyes' training methods are at fault, or whether the injuries have been random.
Professionals of Rio and Vidic's r experience aren't going to be insensible of the need for their appearances to be managed, they've seen similar be the role of other servants to the club after all. I'd conjecture that it could just as easily fall into the category of Moyes' communication skills or lack thereof.
What we had last summer was a new captain appointed to the good ship MUFC, surely it would only been prudent for him to get the senior officers onside? A fully supportive Rio could have been a asset to Moyes both on and off the pitch yet this wasn't an outcome which the manager sought. The notion of choosing one's battles has not been a particular quality of Dave's thus far i'd say.
Last edited:
Rio did himself a disservice by playing horrid football. He was then replaced. He then talked shit in the press. Even if there was zero communication, he's done nothing but act unprofessional this season.
He's a big boy. He had the chance to lead in difficult circumstances and chose the opposite. There is not a player on the squad I have lost more respect for.
He's a big boy. He had the chance to lead in difficult circumstances and chose the opposite. There is not a player on the squad I have lost more respect for.
Personally, in the case of Rio and Vidic, I think it's age catching up to them more than anything.
Weird how people have turned on Rio, after a decade of service, all because he said in an interview he'd rather know earlier when he's playing. Boo fecking hoo.
Injuries have had a massive impact on Vidic, and he was never blessed with great pace. Rio has lost his pace which made him a formidable player. Due to these issues they're both defending too deep than they did previously. With our formation of having 2 players in midfield it's leaving vast amounts of space between the defence and our midfield for opponents to exploit, and putting too much pressure on midfield. In fact they're mindset has become defensive, and playing safety first. It becoming even more of an issue as Evra is not able to track back as he did previously.
Yep. Signing Kroos and Vidal will be the first step. How many more steps do you figure?
My sources tell me our first game of decent football is pencilled in for Oct. 2018, but that date may be pushed back if we decide to add a few more steps.
Timing is everything, isn't it? He chose the the wrong time
I'm not turning on Rio. I'll be a fan of his for life, but at the same time if he's become a bad influence in the dressing room he's got to go.
He made an indiscriminate mistake, and it's been blown out of proportion. From what I read on here anyone would think it's the reason for our poor results.
la
United players are well trained un media. He did not make a mistake.
The rest of your comment is a pointless WUM
United players are well trained un media. He did not make a mistake.
The rest of your comment is a pointless WUM
This isn't mentioned very often, but it's definitely an issue.
Not really. It is hard to say. What you and chester say could well be true. On the other hand we know that Moyes is renowed for his old school training method and tactics whilst the football that we display on the pitch is just awful. Yes you can blame the players for tepid performances but what we are trying to achieve under Moyes's tactical guidance is not what I would imagine top players to respond to. I think at the elite level of sport you need conditions to be right to perform to your maximum capabilities. If through many years of experience as a top professional you then find yourself being led by someone who does not look like they are cut out for the top level, I think those fine lines of confidence are going to be negatively affected. I think that the managers job, in essence, is to ensure that his players are on the right side of that confidence line.
I am not convinced by Moyes on multiple counts. Maybe the squad is awful and Fergie was a magician or perhap it is Moyes who is not cut out for the job. Now that Moyes has Mata, Rooney and Van Persie available we really need to see some improvement.
Mitten's point about players being positive in public and negative in private backs up a point I made to pocco I think some while back. Rooney or Fletcher had come out with positive quotes on Moyes and that was being heralded as that the squad are backing Moyes. How anyone expects United players to air dirty laundry in public is ridiculous. Our players are media trained. Very rare will be a negative story coming out. What they say in public doesn't mean it's all good in the dressing room.
I think the only one who has come out and criticised Moyes training techniques was that Dutch moron and I wouldn't pass much heed to him.
Moyes should have no sentimentality or favouritism for ANY of our players yet. It is 100% down to the players to show Moyes what they can do and for me, when Rio has played he's failed to impress more than Smalling or Evans. However, the speaking to the media shite has been blown waaaay out of proportion. He was asked whether the manager does things differently and how he is coping and he answered truthfully. Had he said "Its great, its like nothing changed" people would be crying saying Moyes is not the man to take is in the right direction, etc...
We have to remember Rio is getting old now. He no longer has the pace to match his ability to read games. If you remember his trademark move, it was shuffle back, alter your position, force the player to try and pass you and then dink the ball away from him. Rinse and repeat. Unfortunately, he's just too slow now and relies too much on experience. In a team with a better midfield and a more industrious LB, he could still play on, but at United the CB has to do as much running as the other players, what with the huge gaps in midfield, covering for the erratic Evra and the lack of leadership.
What it boils down to is that on matchday, the players that we go with have impressed Moyes in one way or another. Valencia can be argued, but his running alone could be a factor why Moyes opts for him instead of others and the rest of them have either impressed in training or in the previous game. Young for example last match played like he had a hot iron stuck to his arse, running up and down the wing trying to make things happen. None of us would have opted for him. We just have to trust Moyes I guess.
We have to remember Rio is getting old now. He no longer has the pace to match his ability to read games. If you remember his trademark move, it was shuffle back, alter your position, force the player to try and pass you and then dink the ball away from him. Rinse and repeat. Unfortunately, he's just too slow now and relies too much on experience. In a team with a better midfield and a more industrious LB, he could still play on, but at United the CB has to do as much running as the other players, what with the huge gaps in midfield, covering for the erratic Evra and the lack of leadership.
What it boils down to is that on matchday, the players that we go with have impressed Moyes in one way or another. Valencia can be argued, but his running alone could be a factor why Moyes opts for him instead of others and the rest of them have either impressed in training or in the previous game. Young for example last match played like he had a hot iron stuck to his arse, running up and down the wing trying to make things happen. None of us would have opted for him. We just have to trust Moyes I guess.
The problem with your statement is Fletcher and Rooney are probably showing the most on the pitch of the entire squad, which is why I believed what they had to say.
Yeah that's fair enough. I just disagree with the general sentiment that just because players are positive in public it means they're fine. That's what I got at the time.
I take it player by player.
Reasonable attitude.
I thought that Mitten said 'training, tactics and man management' or close to were of an issue to some players, or at least strongly intimated that it was. Would you agree though that with Mata, Rooney and Van Persie back that we need to see some evolution? I mean you can add Fellani to that as Moyes has spent 65m on two players. Really we should be finishing 4th.
Yeah we should absolutely be, but we've gone through two nightmare spells that have killed us and Liverpool keep on winning. The next 5 months will be very telling in how Moyes will go about his business but 4th or at the very least a vast improvement in play and results but missing out narrowly to teams above us who keep on winning would be just about acceptable at this point.
What Fletcher said was in response to a direct question about dressing room discontent (or something along those lines) - and he didn't come across as your typical media trained "say nothing whilst saying something perfectly generic" footballer to me. So I don't think he fits the category Mitten is referring to at all. But it's obviously true in general that players - like managers - won't spill all the beans in interviews and that there may be plenty of problems even though they say everything is hunky dory.
To believe what happening in the pitch right now i.e shit football, people would come out with 20+ hypothetical theory about players coup d'etat, ed being a moron, saf is a self legacy preserving bastard, martinez is a lucky gimp, rio and co is unprofessional, fabregas is playing a hush hush code to united, and all that probably true, but no more than equally hypothetical with one simple theory of... Perhaps, it is just moyes that is out of his depth
And while martinez is deemed lucky because he's smart enough to loan players he need while inheriting a solid squad from moyes, moyes is a poor sod for inheriting a well past it team where half the squad suddenly are not even good enough to beat sunderland over two leg...
Poor moyes... Must have been hard for him
Poor moyes... Must have been hard for him
You are the first person here to suggest that our faulty season might be down to Moyes. Congratulations.
In every single squad on the planet there are players who are unhappy, if their personal thoughts make it in to the public domain then that can be spun to indicate an unhappy squad when it might just be a couple of players who think they should be playing every game but arent.
We've got a squad who have, over varying proportions of the last 27 years, had it drilled into them that Sir Alex Ferguson is the most important person in the world. Obviously with him gone, that's going to have a psychological impact. The issue is that David Moyes now needs to build up that same aura around himself. He could have come in, and fiddled around the edges rather than doing things his own way, and we'd probably be slightly higher up the table at the moment. But long term, he'd be compromised. He had to come in and demand everything was done his way, because the manager has to be king. Many players won't like that, but by the end of this season they'll either have to learn to deal with it or move on from the club.
Spot on.
Itd be follish for them to play expansive football against Chelsea because they are West Ham. We are the Champions, we shouldnt go away to a team, even if they are as good as Chelsea, and play to not lose. I dont think that is what Sam meant at all.
Id rather go down fighting personally.
Id rather go down fighting personally.
Mourinho did it against us & Arsenal. Look where he is on the table now. On a day we didn't have Rooney, RVP, Nani, etc we should have applied caution. Goals difference might be the key to us either finishing 4th or 5th.
Big Sam is right. Moyes got his tactics wrong at Stamford Bridge.
I think it is what he mean't...In fairness, he's not the first guy to get a dig in when we're down....Still, I'm not even sure what kind of game we played at Chelsea....It wasn't expressive, it wasn't attacking, it wasn't expansive...It was shit I know that
- Status