While I see your point, I have to say some of the named players are already half-way on their way out anyway, no matter the circumstances. Evra has stated numerous times he wanted to leave in 2011 (?) and has openly said at the start of the season he will not renew this time around. Buttner was close to joining Besiktas while one of our CM will have to make room anyway if we're bringing in a couple of CM in the summer. It's a thin line for Moyes, but while I'm not one his biggest supporters, it's about time he's telling to players to stop being fecking lazy and give their all on the pitch. It's nothing to do with his own deficits IMHO, some of the players aren't just THAT arsed anymore after Fergie left.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
- Start date
- Status
While I see your point, I have to say some of the named players are already half-way on their way out anyway, no matter the circumstances. Evra has stated numerous times he wanted to leave in 2011 (?) and has openly said at the start of the season he will not renew this time around. Buttner was close to joining Besiktas while one of our CM will have to make room anyway if we're bringing in a couple of CM in the summer. It's a thin line for Moyes, but while I'm not one his biggest supporters, it's about time he's telling to players to stop being fecking lazy and give their all on the pitch. It's nothing to do with his own deficits IMHO, some of the players aren't just THAT arsed anymore after Fergie left.
I think you make good points there. I look at it slightly differently, in the sense that, yes, Moyes has made a rod for his own back there slightly as you said in your first paragraph, but that is his problem not ours. Having said all of what he said he will be under more pressure (he was already under a lot anyway to be fair) to deliver in terms of bringing people in, but if he fails to get his targets it doesnt make any difference to us as supporters whether he made these comments or not, either way we are going to be working with an inferior squad. It will make a difference to him though as another stick to beat him with if performances dont pick up.
Your second para is just bang on the money, as much as we are experiencing a Mata Effect at the moment, a feel-good factor we probably havent had since Moyes took over, it will dissipate pretty quickly if it doesnt make a difference quite quickly in terms of results and performances. It might even be worse: having built up our expectations and excitement for tonight, a shit performance will be harder to digest for a lot of people than if we went into the game with low expectations anyway (as I would have done if the Mata deal hadnt happened). Similarly, people are anticipating a change of style to get the best out of our latest acquisition, if we play the same old way but substitute Kagawa on the left for Mata on the left, to similar effect, people are going to be livid.
There is no getting away from the fact that heightened expectations means increased pressure. As bullish as Moyes is being at the moment, Im sure he is feeling that. But still, to go back to my first point, that is his problem more than ours. If he cant get it right he will be shipped out, whether it is at the end of the season or some time next, and someone else will come in who will hopefully do better. I personally cant ask for any more than for him to articulate the way I am feeling. He had to deliver this message to the players, and publicly, IMO because otherwise us fans are left wondering how he plans to address it. Ive been longing for him to say something like this, last week I remember posting that I thought actually getting rid of a couple of players might be almost as important as bringing people in if it sent out a message to the whole squad they are playing for their places in the squad. A lot of them needed a massive kick up the arse and that is what this is. I just hope it has the desired effect.
I like what he's saying, but he has to back it up in the Summer. He's put himself in a situation where if he doesn't bring in some real world class players he will look pretty stupid.
How bad does morale have to be before you stop worrying about damaging morale? Isnt it a bit like tip-toeing around in a morgue in case you wake someone up? Morale is shot to pieces anyway, the softly softly approach hasnt worked so it is time to kick arse.
Do you wanna play under David Moyes? No? Ok, but we have Mata and Rooney, Vidal and Gundogan on the way...
that may well be the case but he still has to motivate the players he has, not to mention needs, until the time he can replace them. who's going to play left back if both our current options decide they can't be arsed to play any more?
how hard would you work if your boss came in and said "right, i'm making you all redundant in four months time, nothing you say or do will change this fact, you're all terrible, now let's get out there and hit those testing targets that will require all of you to be at 100% to achieve" whilst waiting for a gladiator style round of "moy-yes, moy-yes, moy-yes"?
That danger will remain as long as we have Young and Valencia in the squad. Get rid of them and our attacking options are Rooney, RVP, Kagawa, Nani, Mata, Januzaj. That can only lead to good football especially with a good midfield behind them.
Moyes should start the summer by getting rid of both of them.
it's very possibly quotes like this that have made morale so low. they've gone from having a boss who they respect immensely, who had nothing to prove in the game, defending them ferociously and never questioning them in public, to someone who's got it all to prove at this level that's told half of them they weren't good enough to play for united and he was looking to replace them after two weeks in the job.
I can't wait for tonight. I'm hoping for an inspirational performance.
I really think he has to try and fix the left full position this window. Look at the amount of goals we've conceded down that side.
Except that he didn't. He gave everyone a chance, and there are numerous culprits who let their level of performance drop dramatically the minute Moyes walked through the front door. I understand they may have reservations, because he hasn't won anything, brought a complete new coaching staff, changed the club they knew etc., but still... he gave them all a chance. Think back to the start of the season when he 'played it safe' - all those players let him down badly. Evra, Ferdinand and Valencia are the worst, but Young, Cleverley, Buttner and dare I say even our captain haven't performed anywhere near their best. Carrick would be another one, but his season has been interrupted badly by injuries.
I can't believe I'm defending Moyes here as I might be one his biggest critics anyway!
Guess I'm a bit sick of seeing some legendary players running around half-arsed most of the time... 
I disagree. He said he was going to give everyone a chance but he would look to improve the squad and make changes in due course. I dont think he unfairly singled anyone out at the start. OK he made that comment about how we were short a few world class players or something along those lines but my god, if we are attributing all this awfulness to that we must have a squad of mental and emotional weaklings. It was hardly a big deal, I would expect the players to take that as an invitation to prove a point, not cry about not being loved enough. How pampered are these people?
In all seriousness I do understand it hasnt been easy for the players and I do think there is more quality there than we have been seeing for the last few months but they need to toughen up if they are feeling all wounded about being questioned in public. He gave them all a chance and most of them have spectacularly failed to take it. If they arent questioning themselves then we really do have something to worry about.
he was openly courting baines all sumer and telling anyone who'd listen he needed a new left back... in my eyes all he had to do was say he's looking to strengthen the squad as all teams do and he's looking at the class sof player of mata to come in and everyone is playing for their places as the rebuild starts now.
if the players don't react then they're out, if they already feel they're out the door then why bother? and he's free to criticise any of them in private, how often does wenger or mourinho openly criticise one of their players? how often did fergie do it? i'm just not sure now is the time to disillusion any of our players further.
if the players don't react then they're out, if they already feel they're out the door then why bother? and he's free to criticise any of them in private, how often does wenger or mourinho openly criticise one of their players? how often did fergie do it? i'm just not sure now is the time to disillusion any of our players further.
I made the same criticism of him when he came in and said it the first time but it doesn't apply anymore as he's given them a chance, All our players have always known they're competing with the very best to earn a spot in our team, that's what should motivate them to perform. The likes of Cleverley, Buttner, Valencia have til the summer to prove they are able.
With Anderson,Scholes,Giggs, Evra gone these big summer signings aren't necessarily taking anyones space in the squad directly anyway,
maybe something is in the pipeline. it is interesting to single out evra on moyes part
I really can't see how saying he wants a new left back equates to openly criticising the team.
is it not an implicit criticism of evra?
i don't know what you do for a living but if a manger singles out a person doing a particular job I'd take that as criticism.
evra deserves criticism by the way
he also mentions midfield. my point is these are the areas of the pitch that will have a big impact on where we finish this year. rooney, rvp etc will all be safe and putting in performances if fit, it's the areas where we are weak and struggling that will let us down, those are the areas that need managing the best and openly saying the players you have in those areas aren't good enough doesn't do them any good.
It could be and probably should have been expanded on by saying "Patrice can't play every game anymore".
He's got a 6 year contract, has talked of rebuilding the squad and shock horror he's looking to replace a 32 year old who's performance level has significantly dropped. Evra will know that there's not that many years left for him and I'd like to think he'd understand why we'd be looking to sign a new left back.
that's not the way to manage and get respect, you need to belittle people and tell them often that they're shit.
agree. if he's not looking to replace the playerrs who are underperforming or getting on a bit then he should be sacked, but at tge same time he also needs to get the best out of those players until such time he can replace them.
Getting people in to compete for a position is not the same as slagging the current person off.
I don't think this statement would make any difference to the players. I'm sure Moyes actually engages in dialogue with them and they know there places.
I don't think this statement would make any difference to the players. I'm sure Moyes actually engages in dialogue with them and they know there places.
It could be taken as a criticism of Buttner, recognition we need cover. It could follow a conversation he had with Evra where he has been told Evra wants to leave next summer (I understand this actually is the case but Im not sure... havent we been told Evra is off? Hence the need for a new LB.)
Even if it is criticism of Evra - even if he said, "I hate Evra, I think he is a piece of shit, I dont trust him and I think he is the worst footballer I have ever seen play at this level" - that still doesnt explain why everyone else is playing so badly. Ive heard of squad solidarity but that would be a bit much.
Anyway, each to his own. I really like what Im hearing from Moyes now. But I never claimed to have any particular talent for motivating people so maybe you are right and saying anything that can even be remotely interpreted as criticising a footballer is managerial suicide.
Final thing: I would be very interested to see how Mourinho would handle the kind of situation we are in this season. You dont need to criticise your players when you are winning. Has Moyes ever suffered a run of form like we've had this season, ever, in his managerial career? I actually can imagine Mourinho being pretty scathing. Clough was also pretty hard on his players. And on SAF, in his younger days I can imagine him making criticisms at least as bad as these (and as I have already said, I barely even recognise them as criticisms anyway). Have you ever seen the footage of SAF after Aberdeen won the cup? Check out the last 20 seconds or so of this, OK so this is at the end of the season but still, its quite far removed from the "protect your players at all costs" mantra we have today.
Great comments from Moyes. Glad to hear no one's position in the team is guaranteed, because to be honest, I'd hand at least 7 players their pink slips at the end of the season if I was Moyes.
Given that he's had three LBs all season, his comments don't say an awful lot for Buttner or Fabio.
I'm perfectly aware when I've been fecking around not doing what I should be doing in a job, compared to when I'm working my ass off and getting things done.
Same goes for some United players currently.
This will be no surprise to them and odds are those players have heard it behind closed doors.
Same goes for some United players currently.
This will be no surprise to them and odds are those players have heard it behind closed doors.
Valenica - Jones - Giggs - Young
feck me. Seriously, what the feck.
feck me. Seriously, what the feck.
I don't get it either. Why not play a fluid attack with the likes of Mata, Januzaj and Kagawa. Instead it's Valencia and Young again, what the hell is Moyes doing?
Let's hope RvP and Mata deliver the goods because there's absolutely no quality anywhere else. That's if Mata is able to even receive the ball with Valencia and Young on the pitch.
He's not even trying to make it look like he wants us to play good football.
I'm giving up on him. Honestly. If you can't make a tasteful dish out of the world's best and most exciting ingredients, you're simply not a very good chef.
I'm giving up on him. Honestly. If you can't make a tasteful dish out of the world's best and most exciting ingredients, you're simply not a very good chef.
Resting Januzaj and Fletcher, Rooney not quite ready, what's the problem?
This month, Januzaj has played nearly every minute of every game (FA Cup aside, in which he was subbed on) - including 120 minutes against Sunderland in which he clearly looked tired and by the end he was reportedly pretty much crying, so it's best to rest him.
Even so, why not play Kagawa instead of Valencia, and try to move away from that fecking flat midfield four that never works and provides us with godawful football?
What did you expect? We've seen who Moyes is and what kind of football he favours in the last few months.
As I said somewhere above, talk about 'exciting football' is cheap. Is Moyes suddenly going to change his spots because we sign one player?
Even if he is tired you still don't have to play both Valencia and Young. It's so depressing watching them both start for us. I was really hoping we'd win this 4 or 5-nil with Old Trafford rocking but he's put a huge downer on things with that line-up.
Play your best team, and you will win games. If they are on the bench, they are fit to play. The team have had the weekend off. Too much rotation has costed us too many times, and the midfield and wing 4 is just not good enough, as we've seen almost every game this season.
Buying one player doesn't mean he's going to change the whole style overnight does it FFS, won't see any of that until the Summer IMO.
This is the bimoylar kicking in again. One step forward, two steps back. What a shit midfield. Hope we get away with it.
Hope we get away with it.And burn out your best talent. Januzaj needs a rest and Fletcher isn't ready to play week in, week out yet.
He couldn't have found room for two of Fletch, Kagawa or Cleverley in that midfield?
- Status