He loves his scouting trips. That's Italy, Germany and Spain he has been to in the last month or two.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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He has atleast identified the right players. Now hopefully he can get them in the summer.
Its the, "lolz, I just signed Juan Mata" look...
"There will be many more"
Is anyone else being pissed off at the fact the media is billing this transfer as a Fergie and Gill effort instead of Moyes and Woodward? All I'm seeing is "Struggling United call in Fergie for help" and shite like that. He signs Fellaini and its his own fault, then he signs Mata and someone else did it for him? He literally is in a no-win situation.
I am not saying that they did not play a part, but all the articles I have read have zero evidence its all just claiming Fergie and Gill were sat in the stands and they got the deal done. Seems a bit unfair if you ask me.
I am not saying that they did not play a part, but all the articles I have read have zero evidence its all just claiming Fergie and Gill were sat in the stands and they got the deal done. Seems a bit unfair if you ask me.
This is the type of backing Moyes should have been given from the board in the summer so that he could have started the season with an air of positivity rather than under a barrage of criticism for a failed window. He probably needed to be more forthright and decisive himself too but at least were seeing signs that lessons have been learnt. I also like that he's not making signings to appease. He genuinely wants the best players rather than players who can do a job. We played better than Chelsea the other day despite the scoreline and we've played well in fits and bursts. I genuinely believe he will come good.
Oh I think he had the backing in the summer as well. It's a combo of being over cautious and being played with (Fabregas) that led being sluggish in summer.
By the time he realized that was running out time and options, it turned out to be too late.
I reckon Fergie is sending DM out to pick up wine.
Seriously though it's been one of his most admired traits, certainly in his early career, he is touted to undertake scouting trips not just to see players but to talk to and gain knowledge from other managers. Said to be a huge fan of German football and it's technique, and uses trips abroad to further his football education.
I am just pulling this from memory however but there is an article somewhere, where I read this stuff when he took the job. I am convinced he will get things right through his sheer hard work and dedication but not just that, his mentality to seek knowledge and having the good sense to listen to, and learn from those around him.
His personal involvement in scouting takes him into the heart of clubs all over the place and I am sure scouting players is just half his reason for the trips, I for one will not be surprised should he prove to be a bigger hit in Europe than Fergie managed to be, certainly argument can be made for United under achieving with regards to European silver in our last 25 years or so.
Edit : Would anyone take a bit of a dry spell in the league in exchange for a couple of European cups ?
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You opening paragraph is something I think we all wished for but ! Moyes seems more calculated and certainly less likely to make a rushed decision, he brought Fellaini who he knows personally and obviously trusts, a lot have made decisions based on 8 games. I am firmly in the Fellaini no thanks camp, but the big gorp might just turn out priceless behind our attacking four.
The Fabregas fiasco has possibly in some manner opened us up to incoming transfers. The agents of the World's ears will have pricked up knowing a club of Uniteds standing is willing to enter the fray for the games best talent. A complete cock up or a clever ploy ? Either way agents and players alike are now well aware that our stance on "value" has changed. Mata in has been going on for months according to Moyes interview on MUTV, so perhaps in some way I am making a decent point here.
We are all likely as shocked as I am how quickly the worm turned as far as results, but I have always felt the weight of Ferguson being lifted has seen the players relax, now I think the players have to realise their duties and responsibilities to themselves and the club lies with them.
It helped having Mata under his belt but he was impressive yesterday and has been all weekend.This deal will be the making of him I hope, and other potential buys will have seen Moyes and be impressed by him yesterday, and seeing Mata join us increases our pulling power! All in all this deal could be the catalyst for the future.In many ways it was vital, and when he said there will be many more, people will believe him and I have shown only support for him on here and at games and I am now sure we have the right man! Slowly but surely finding his feet!
Oh and if Rooney signs then that's more brilliant work. Him firing,happy and signed on plus RvP fit and back in the fold and I have zero doubts about 4th place! We're moving in the right direction.
Oh and if Rooney signs then that's more brilliant work. Him firing,happy and signed on plus RvP fit and back in the fold and I have zero doubts about 4th place! We're moving in the right direction.
People had implied that he'd not be attractive to big players so he must feel quite positive landing Juan Mata.
I'm not accusing you, Mel (I know you know your stuff!) but this surprise and astonishment among folk when Moyes' traits are talked about in the media fecking baffles me. It was the same yesterday when posters were delighted to see Moyes actually does some scouting of his own. Totally bizarre as Moyes' work ethic and attention to detail is famous.
The link with the Bundesliga is no surprise either as he's been a fan if it for years, much earlier than your average hipster who only got into it in 2012. There was also significant speculation that Moyes would manage in Germany after his Everton contract ran down (obviously before we made our interest known).
Again, sorry for the rant (not at you, mind) but this wide-scale amazement that Moyes is something other than a mentally-challenged charlatan is extraordinary.
If the one thing he concluded from his scouting trip to see Cardiff yesterday was to attack them, then I'm happy with that!
germany and spain is the right place to look at players now. the of the best leagues in the world. very good to see moyes spending a lot of time checking out players, hopefully 2 or 3 more world class players to join the club over the next few months.
I've had that look on my face all week.
Its the, "lolz, I just signed Juan Mata" look...
It was a ridiculous argument that's suddenly been dropped from the list of negative bullet points that his detractors keep recycling.
@gasmanc I would be happy to win a few cls at the expense of the league depending on who's winning the league. That said they seem to go hand in hand for us.
Some clown in work was running Moyes down last week and was telling me that he doesn't have it in him to bring in "the big names - the likes of Hazard and Lewandowski" like Chelsea/Mourinho and Bayern/Guardiola can.
I had to politely remind him that Ferguson failed to convince those two to sign for us, and that Mourinho didn't sign Hazard, either. I think the irony was lost on him.
Some cnuts just love a moan.
I had to politely remind him that Ferguson failed to convince those two to sign for us, and that Mourinho didn't sign Hazard, either. I think the irony was lost on him.
Some cnuts just love a moan.
I'm curious about something - in a completely non-adversarial way. Don't take it as an attack, just an interest in the opinions of the more staunch Moyes supporters on the caf.
What are your thoughts about Moyes' tenure so far? Do you have any concerns about the long term future of the club, or are you confident he'll steer the ship in the right direction given time? If so, what makes you think he'll make it?
Lastly, do you think some of the criticisms Moyes has recieved are justified? If so, which criticisms?
IMHO, he's not the right man for United. He'll throw a lot of money on new players and big wages and then it will become clear that much more is required to build a great team. I respect him as a person, more than, say, Mourinho. But he doesn't have what it takes to be successful at that level. That's my prediction. Hopefully, I'm wrong about him.
I don't think that many of us 'Moyes supporters' are any such thing; why would we have an allegiance to a manager with (until recently) no genuine connection to our club? Me, I just don't think that several months is enough time in which to 'judge' a manager, unless his team is losing something like 5-0 in just about every match (in which case it's totally obvious that he's out of his depth). Further, I find it incredible, but wholly predictable, that detractors are analysing each & every public utterance...even though we all know that what is said for public consumption hardly bears taking seriously because of the various factors behind these statements. Add to this long-standing concerns about the squad's qualities & what we have is not so much a blind faith in Moyes but rather a more sensible, fair and objective attitude of 'wait and see'; none of us can truly predict, faultlessly, how well or badly Moyes might do...seeing as we can't predict the future.
Perfectly summed up.
For me it's not a question of advocating the greatness of one Dave Moyes. It's simply a matter of giving him a chance. I had no ideal candidate - I didn't think there was one, and I still don't. I was pleased that Moyes got the job back in June because, frankly, I didn't want Maureen at United - and he seemed like the only plausible alternative.
I'm glad the overhaul is coming now.
If it had happened last summer I think we would have had a better season but not enough to be title contenders (due to the inevitable complication of bedding in multiple new players under a new manager) and people would've got on Moyes back for selling off a title winning team etc.
Now, no one is in any doubt about the task at hand, and there'll be few tears shed over the overhaul to come.
If it had happened last summer I think we would have had a better season but not enough to be title contenders (due to the inevitable complication of bedding in multiple new players under a new manager) and people would've got on Moyes back for selling off a title winning team etc.
Now, no one is in any doubt about the task at hand, and there'll be few tears shed over the overhaul to come.
This is sense on behalf of the pro-Moyes camp.
I've been fairly critical of Moyes and his tenure so far, simply because for me he seemed to do all the wrong things, right from the transfer window shambles, the choice of Fellaini as his midfield signing (by design or by panic), his negative, cautious set-up in the opening matches that arguably cost us a great morale boosting win against both Chelsea and Liverpool, his rigid and outdated 4-4-2 and his defeatist comments to the press (for me, stating the squad was lacking in several areas early on didn't do him any favours).
However, on the plus side we've now signed Mata, a top class attacking midfielder, which besides proving Moyes can land big names also implies a change towards a different type of football (let's see if he can get us playing that way but at least it shows intent).Another plus is him getting the best out of Jones, Rooney, Welbeck and Januzaj, even though the squad as a whole has underperformed. For me, what decides his destiny now is the results for the rest of the season. Bringing in Mata has basically bought him a certain goodwill in terms of showing the right attitude towards improving our team and our style of football, now let's see if he can repair the ship, not just acquire the tools. A top four finish this season and an improvement on the football we've played thus far will have me backing him to get it right and give him another season in my book. If we're out of the top four then sorry, that's just not good enough. Like I've said from the start of the season.
Fair points, but my main gripe with Moyes is that we're going absolutely nowhere. The Mata signing might give us a bit of momentum, but so far United under Moyes has been a shambles. There's been a handful of good games and a boatload of absolutely shit games. 10 losses so far, is it? There hasn't been any progress at all, which makes me worry for the future of United as one of top dogs in England and Europe. I understand that Moyes probably couldn't continue the clubs winning ways seamlessly, but I still expected so much more than this. I mean, where is he going? What is he trying to do? He just strikes me as a decent manager who found his level at Everton, but not the type of manager to take a top European side to new heights. I feel like he's out of his depth.
I still maintain that he should be let go if we fail to finish fourth or better. With that squad and the resources available to him, I find it astounding that he can produce the kind of results that he's done - long term squad issues or not.
No issues with genuine discussion.
So far it's been pretty disappointing. I was hoping to at least be in the top four at this stage and in with a shout of the title race and the fact we are not there is a real and pretty big problem. I think that all stems from a poor summer last year in the transfer market and as I said yesterday I think one of his biggest failures so far was perhaps thinking he could get anything close to the same performances from this group as Fergie got. Last season we were massively reliant on DDG, Vidic, Raf, Evra (who had his best season in ages), Carrick, RvP and Rooney. The rest of the squad pretty much made up the numbers to a large extent. What's been pretty much out of Moyes control is that this year apart from Rooney and DDG the rest of those core players have been injured or just played terribly and we've been expecting the passengers from last season to step up and they have let us down. A good summer in the transfer market would have avoided a lot of these problems.
As for the future, I think we can only judge him properly once he's had the opportunity to put these things right and with the purchase of Mata he looks to have taken the first rather large step in doing so. With his extensive scouting trips around Europe we can clearly see that the players he's looking at are all players we feel as fans are exactly what we need as in top drawer CM and LB as a priority. He's handled a very delicate situation with Rooney pretty much perfectly and that has been a massive positive as has his use of Adnan. I know some will say he had little choice there, but at the start of the season I think he did have a choice to make and he put his trust in a kid.
Just to put it in a list of things people said he wouldn't be able to do that he'd done...
- Wouldn't be able to attract top stars - wrong (Mata)
- Wouldn't be able to manage top stars - wrong (Rooney)
- Wouldn't be able to bring through youth properly - wrong (Adnan)
- Wouldn't be able for the Champions League - wrong
The deserved critique has been at the league performance. For me this season I'm not too worried about the cups for now so I'll focus on that.
- Our results against top teams have been terrible apart from the Arsenal result.
- We've looked frailer in defence than at any point in the last 20 years and I never feel like we can see a game out without conceding.
- United should be scoring late goals to rescue points but this year we're giving them up and losing points or being knocked out of cups.
- The football has been dire and showed no signs of improvement.
- Last summers in the transfer market was brutal.
- Strange handling of Fabio and Zaha.
That has to be my biggest ever post in the FF.
Well, this kind of harks back to the old "Is it the team's/squad's or Moyes' fault?" thing, something we all have varied opinions about. For every "It's the manager's job to organise & inspire, so virtually every setback is down to him", there's an argument to be had that Moyes is obliged to watch professional footballers putting his job in jeopardy through incompetence, carelessness and/or sheer lack of top-level footballing ability (how come even I'm both-footed yet pro players like Valencia are entirely reliant on one foot?). Again, only time will tell who's up to their jobs and who isn't.
As I said in my first paragraph in the large post, I think he's been let down by the key players from last year and other have been injured. Should he have pre-empted that buy strengthening last summer? Yeah probably but everything is obvious in retrospect.
- Wouldn't be able to attract top stars - wrong (Mata) - Attracted to more playing time at a big club and nice wages.
- Wouldn't be able to manage top stars - wrong (Rooney) The club said he was not leaving Moyes just repeated it.
- Wouldn't be able to bring through youth properly - wrong (Adnan)SAF may have had something to do with that.
- Wouldn't be able for the Champions League - wrong - Wait and see on that.
@Irwinwastheking
He hasn't proven yet that he can hack it at the CL; getting us out of the group stage once is certainly not enough. The real question always was whether he can handle the like of Juventus, Bayern and Barcelona in knockout games, not Shakhtar and Leverkusen in the group stage.
I don't think we've looked frailer in defence than at any point in the last 20 years, that's an exaggeration. Think of 01/02 when we seemed to make a ridiculous defensive mistake in just about every game. We looked less creative than, well, ever under Fergie though.
He hasn't proven yet that he can hack it at the CL; getting us out of the group stage once is certainly not enough. The real question always was whether he can handle the like of Juventus, Bayern and Barcelona in knockout games, not Shakhtar and Leverkusen in the group stage.
I don't think we've looked frailer in defence than at any point in the last 20 years, that's an exaggeration. Think of 01/02 when we seemed to make a ridiculous defensive mistake in just about every game. We looked less creative than, well, ever under Fergie though.
That's ridiculous nitpicking, to be fair. I don't think Irwin suggests Mata was personally attracted to Moyes (felt weird typing that) but he was happy enough to come here with Moyes in charge so it shows that United can still attract top players.
I blame Moyes for the poor form of many of our players so it's only fair to give him credit for Rooney: he kept him playing well and now he might sign a new contract.
SAF did not play Januzaj. Moyes gave him chances and rewarded his good performances with more opportunities.
Agree on the CL.
Moyes has done terrible so far, by and large, but there's no reason not to give him credit for the few things he got right.
As Siorac said that's nitpicking. The point was repeatedly made that he wouldn't be able to attract the top players and they wouldn't come here to play for moyes. He's just signed a brilliant player to the club so give him the win when it's there. As for his handling of Rooney, if you can't give him more credit for that than saying he's just repeating what the club is saying then you're clearly not going to give him any credit for anything. As for Adnan, he was given his start by Fergie, but again you need to give credit for Moyes for making him a first team player this year and trusting him. As for the CL, yeah, we'll wait and see but plenty were saying we'd struggle with that group with Moyes especially going to Germany but he breezed through it.
Indeed. And the point people brought up against him before the season was simply that he had no experience of managing in the CL - not specifically that he would struggle against the likes of Barca and Bayern in the knock-out stages (who wouldn't struggle against those sides, by the way? It wouldn't be much of a point to make).
On your first point I agree, but I was responding to the criticism that was put forward prior to the start of the group that he'd struggle in it because of his lack of experience. That hasn't manifested yet but of course the real tests are to come.
Yeah, maybe you're right about the defence, but it's still been pretty shit.
Fair enough man
That's not the true irony of this exchange but never mind.
I bet 90% of people on here don't even know me, I'm not exactly prolific. If there was a poll to gauge the dislike of me I would imagine the main word of the thread would be who?
I really like the guy and am desperate for him to succeed here. But if performance levels don't change, results don't improve and we miss out on a top 4 spot then he has to go.
Would you take two from those three?
Well most of those permutations would need the others to be applicable (we couldn't get top 4 whilst playing well if results dont change for example) but yes, If performance levels and results rise but we miss out on the top 4 (which I think we probably will) because there were just too many teams we needed to feck up, then I'd be happy enough that we'd seem to be heading in the right direction.
Performance levels (+ tactics, substitutions, teams etc etc) are by far my worst fear. I'd be sated by just a good improvement in them.
Performance levels (+ tactics, substitutions, teams etc etc) are by far my worst fear. I'd be sated by just a good improvement in them.
I'd say if performance levels improve then chances of the other 2 do. You play well, you generally win, you win you climb the table.
Perfectly sums up my stand as well. Especially the part about the players being equally responsible for our current standing.
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