Moyes So Far!

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Hannibal said:
We will support him if he stops playing 4-4-2 against a more sophisticated 4-2-3-1. We get overrun in the midfield & our wing play has been shyte for aeons.....

This is why it seems no combination seems to work in our central midfield & Ballack, Makelele, Essien in their prime would struggle in the system we play.

We make life difficult for our midfielders.......
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I don't think it's the system that the problem, you can play a 442 but you have to have the players for it and have those players well enough.

Most teams play narrow these days and certainly a lot of teams play narrow against us. To combat that you need two midfielders who will be solid and can make the most out of their time on the ball. We don't have that both in terms of passing ability an defensive strength.

You then need two wingers who can play quick on the counter and exploit the space that is open to them because the other team is narrow. Again we don't have that. Our players are generally too safe and produce too little quality.

And then up front you need two strikers who can hold their own, being others in and make the most of their chances. We do have that when rvp and Rooney are for bit they haven't and the other options are good but not that good, and don't compliment each other at all.

And that's what's frustrating about what moyes is doing for me. There's nothing wrong with the principal of 442 but you need the players to be able to do it and you need players to be playing well.

I've said it before so often he just doesn't seem to answer the actual problems on the pitch, his substitutions usually being one winger for another, or bring on another striker. I don't know how he could have watched Sunderland inthe cup and thought our first sub should be too take of a midfielder and go back to two up top, that didnt reflect the game at all. I don't know why he started welbeck and Hernandez in the first places as I said they clearly don't compliment each other.

That's ultimately the worry with mata, he's not a player for a 442 well not as a wide player. But so far he's shown a lot of inflexibility or acceptance that he doesn't have the players or the players playing well enough to play a 442.
 
I'm not saying this signing will definitely change Moyes' disaster around completely, but it is damn well giving it a good chance of doing so. What's more is he doesn't seem to be stopping his interest in other players, and we are looking to get back our two most important players within the next 2 weeks. We babble on about how this team won the premier league last season, and he shouldn't be dropping this many points, but we do have to take a step back and look at it this way: you have just walked into the biggest job in the world, taking it over from one of the most successful managers in the world, with high expectations to succeed.

Then, the transfer market doesn't fully pan out your way because we either miss out on targets, or they simply didn't want to join. As well as this, he was aided by a man who also took a new role of dealing with this, and neither looked to have got any help from their predecessors in negotiations. This is what I felt was Fergie and Gill's biggest mistake. After their retirement, they should have hung around more in the summer to keep their negotiation powers around, and help Moyes bring in the top players on his first season, then slowly wean their way out of dealings, when Woody and Moyes were capable enough to do this on their own. I can imagine this most recent signing was helped a little by Gill and Fergie, those Stamford Bridge photos suggested as much.

After a pretty poor transfer window, he loses god knows how many players to injury, including the 2 most important and effective players we have. The excuse that they are injured more due to his training methods is a load of crap. I swear I remember seeing half of these players being injured on the pitch anyway? I know we saw many a crisis under Fergie, but this was His team. He knew it inside out, and had it exactly how he wanted it. These injuries really have added to the pressures.

People still have their doubts about Moyes, and rightly so. Will he be able to attract big name signings was questioned before, but has been put to bed. Missing out on top 4 may yet again change that though. Can he handle the pressure? Yet to be seen. Will he change his tactics as they are clearly not working? Again, something to observe on now Mata has joined us. What we do know is that the Glazers are clearly backing him with a signing like this, and he's going to be here longer than people think/want. We have had an incredibly bad time, but this signing should signal the end of all of that, and (fingers crossed) we push on to bigger and better things.
 
I've been hugely critical of Moyes so far because I think his performance as Manchester United manager has been that poor.

I've also always maintained that he should be sacked if he doesn't achieve 4th place or come close but dramatically improve the football to a high level. Now, with this signing, which should give everyone a boost, hopefully he does just that. The possibilities with players like Januzaj, Mata and Kagawa are mouth watering, and when you add the "big two" strikers to the mix, then there could potentially be some special football on show. Hopefully he's able to make this happen.
 
I was all exicted about the Mata signing, but then I had a quick look at the table. Fecking 6 points behind 4th place. 5 points behind 5th and 6th. It's been a truly shocking season from Moyes, Mata or not.

If he doesn't make 4th, he should be fired the day it's confirmed.
 
Ash_G said:
I don't think it's the system that the problem, you can play a 442 but you have to have the players for it and have those players well enough.

Most teams play narrow these days and certainly a lot of teams play narrow against us. To combat that you need two midfielders who will be solid and can make the most out of their time on the ball. We don't have that both in terms of passing ability an defensive strength.

You then need two wingers who can play quick on the counter and exploit the space that is open to them because the other team is narrow. Again we don't have that. Our players are generally too safe and produce too little quality.

And then up front you need two strikers who can hold their own, being others in and make the most of their chances. We do have that when rvp and Rooney are for bit they haven't and the other options are good but not that good, and don't compliment each other at all.

And that's what's frustrating about what moyes is doing for me. There's nothing wrong with the principal of 442 but you need the players to be able to do it and you need players to be playing well.

I've said it before so often he just doesn't seem to answer the actual problems on the pitch, his substitutions usually being one winger for another, or bring on another striker. I don't know how he could have watched Sunderland inthe cup and thought our first sub should be too take of a midfielder and go back to two up top, that didnt reflect the game at all. I don't know why he started welbeck and Hernandez in the first places as I said they clearly don't compliment each other.

That's ultimately the worry with mata, he's not a player for a 442 well not as a wide player. But so far he's shown a lot of inflexibility or acceptance that he doesn't have the players or the players playing well enough to play a 442.
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He was never going to come in and change us immediately as he'd be challenging the views of Fergie in the eyes of the players. Id say the gradual approach is wise and im confident from the players he's looked at that we'll see a new style.

I always thought at Everton he was very good at setting a team up to suit its strengths.
 
Hannibal said:
We will support him if he stops playing 4-4-2 against a more sophisticated 4-2-3-1. We get overrun in the midfield & our wing play has been shyte for aeons.....

This is why it seems no combination seems to work in our central midfield & Ballack, Makelele, Essien in their prime would struggle in the system we play.

We make life difficult for our midfielders.......
Click to expand...

4-2-3-1 is 442 written fancily
 
rio's upper lip said:
I was all exicted about the Mata signing, but then I had a quick look at the table. Fecking 6 points behind 4th place. 5 points behind 5th and 6th. It's been a truly shocking season from Moyes, Mata or not.

If he doesn't make 4th, he should be fired the day it's confirmed.
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The Liverpool/Everton and Spurs/City game might help there. If we win we will start making ground, we just need to pick these teams off one by one.
 
Smores said:
He was never going to come in and change us immediately as he'd be challenging the views of Fergie in the eyes of the players. Id say the gradual approach is wise and im confident from the players he's looked at that we'll see a new style.

I always thought at Everton he was very good at setting a team up to suit its strengths.
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Fergie changed it when he needed to, we saw the diamond a couple of times and fergie used a 451/433 when he needed to. Either way fergie set up a team that was getting results.

Moyes's selections have often not seemed the best and certainly imo his substitutions have not usually reflected the match and our situation.

I'm not saying he needed to come in and rule out wide play or anything but I think he definitely needed to have shown more flexibility to get the best out of the players who haven't been injured
 
I remember years ago on here Mozza was debating that 4231 is just a fancy way of saying 442.

And I agree (to an extent).

The term 4231 has come to be associated with modern, fluid, narrow, passing football, whilst the term 442 has come to be associated with blood-and-guts, long ball, width, big-man-little-man strike partnership.

In reality you can play modern, fluid, narrow passing football with 4 midfielders and 2 strikers, and you can play blood-and-guts, long ball football with width with 2 deep midfielders, 3 more attacking midfielders, and 1 striker.

It's not the formation that dictates style. Terms like 4231 or 442 don't really mean much and people get too caught up in them. However, where I think I disagree with Mozza, it's that I think they can be quite convenient terms to use because generally people get what they mean.
 
Rowem said:
I remember years ago on here Mozza was debating that 4231 is just a fancy way of saying 442.

And I agree (to an extent).

The term 4231 has come to be associated with modern, fluid, narrow, passing football, whilst the term 442 has come to be associated with blood-and-guts, long ball, width, big-man-little-man strike partnership.

In reality you can play modern, fluid, narrow passing football with 4 midfielders and 2 strikers, and you can play blood-and-guts, long ball football with width with 2 deep midfielders, 3 more attacking midfielders, and 1 striker.

It's not the formation that dictates style. Terms like 4231 or 442 don't really mean much and people get too caught up in them. However, where I think I disagree with Mozza, it's that I think they can be quite convenient terms to use because generally people get what they mean.
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Of course they have meaning. 442 and 4231 are very very different formations and require different types of players with different attributes. We for example need a much stronger centre midfield pairing to play 442 whereas in a 4231 you have a bit more forgiveness because the 3 line is closer to the middle. It also effects how the defence go about there jobs particularly the full backs.
 
Irwinwastheking said:
Of course they have meaning. 442 and 4231 are very very different formations and require different types of players with different attributes. We for example need a much stronger centre midfield pairing to play 442 whereas in a 4231 you have a bit more forgiveness because the 3 line is closer to the middle. It also effects how the defence go about there jobs particularly the full backs.
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You can play a 4231 where the 3 (or 2 of the 3) are not close to the middle, and you can play a 442 where the widest midfielders are closer to the middle.

They're just generic titles. They are very basic over-simplifications of larger strategies which can vary enormously. As such these titles are not always accurate and are occasionally even misleading.
 
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How does he keep up? From Germany to Carrington to greet Mata and a couple of hours later at the Reebok stadium to watch Cardiff.
 
I've never seen a manager with such a blatant disregard for his carbon footprint, sack him!!
 
Only half mean this. But he could do with re watching our games and realize the insanity in our play. Constant balls out wide and dropping deep instead of taking game to opposition.

Only half mean it cause I am sure he does see what all of us great footballing geniuses on the caf do.

Hope he gets zaha loan done while there.
 
Very short Bolton fan in that photo.
 
He seems to be pulling the same manic grin in all these 'Moyes Spotted' photos as if he's enjoying being caught.
 
I wish my hard work involved watching Bayern Munich, flying on a private jet and shaking hands with Juan Mata. Got it easy, has David!

Jokes aside, I think it's great he makes such an effort to check out opposition players and teams.
 
rio's upper lip said:
Yes. Every workaholic in the history of the world in any profession has always succeeded. Always. Without exception.
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From my post you deduced that the only variable into me thinking he'll get t right is him being a workaholic. Jesus, the anti-Moyes brigade do love jumping down the throat of any positive post with stupid assumptions. It's pretty tiresome.
 
rio's upper lip said:
I was all exicted about the Mata signing, but then I had a quick look at the table. Fecking 6 points behind 4th place. 5 points behind 5th and 6th. It's been a truly shocking season from Moyes, Mata or not.

If he doesn't make 4th, he should be fired the day it's confirmed.
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If he gets us to 4th place can we sack you as a Man Utd fan?
 
nahealai said:
Why are people only surprised now to learn that Moyes' work ethic is a huge trait of his?

His commitment to his job has been famous for years now.
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Yeah, known about his dedication for ages. His commitment to scouting and viewing all potential signings himself is well known. I strongly felt last summer that that was the main reason for our crappy performance in the transfer window as all the talk was that he was so thorough before spending and I said as much at the time. It's been costly this season but in the long term it's the correct procedure and will pay dividends. I can see major squad reshaping in the very near future.
Stack said:
If he gets us to 4th place can we sack you as a Man Utd fan?
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Please. I'd love a fecking cull.
 
Kill 'em all said:
How does he keep up? From Germany to Carrington to greet Mata and a couple of hours later at the Reebok stadium to watch Cardiff.
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It's very well known that he's 'titan of work' and he's very dedicated to the things he's doing. You can ask quality but never the effort. I absolutely love it.
 
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