Erm...I really hate to be the one to have to break this to you...
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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Erm...I really hate to be the one to have to break this to you...
The team is lacking is confidence, it can be clearly seen. Poor results will do that. However with the teams Moyes has picked, there is no reason why we should not be winning those matches. Yesterday was dreadful, losing to a poor Sunderland team with 1 shot on target. I'm glad Mata has been brought in. If we can get some good results, the confidence will again flow however some of the players in the squad need to take a good long look at themselves and ask themselves whether they are good enough. I'm hopefull we can make 4th and with Mata coming in and RVP/Rooney back, there should be no reason why we should not. However the test will come for Moyes in the summer and how he handles the squad overhaul.
That's the thing, I think he got his team wrong at the start, sort of tried to rectify it when he switched Kagawa and Welbeck and then went back to how it was, taking of Kagawa and it didn't reflect the game at all. Our best bits were coming when we had 3 central players, Carrick, fletch and Kagawa all close to each other. In a 442 we struggled as there just isn't the quality there to make up for the fact that we're outnumbered centrally.
And he didn't do anything to change it. We may have been unlucky with the goal we conceded but not that we actually conceded. We were clearly struggling to contain them and didn't look like we had enough on the counter to nick the goal to mean it didn't matter so much. It's the same thing we see almost every game. His set up and subs never seem to reflect whats actually happening.
That's why I'm worried about Mata as silly as that sounds. I mean assuming we're hoping Rooney stays then where does he play? Could go for a 433, but then Rooney has to drop deeper and Moyes has to change the way he plays which so far he's seemed unwilling to do. It's a good problem to have I guess but only if we've still got plenty left to sign a central midifelder, if this is out big transfer for jan/summer then I'm not sure if it will solve the main issues.
Hyperthetically of course. But if Fergie stepped in right now and replaced Moyes, pre Mata signing as well......do you think we would get 4th?
Sadly, I agree regarding fergie in the transfer market over the last years of his reign. Although, perhaps this was more to do with not having the resources he wanted, or needed. You'd expect him to talk favourably about his own players - whether he actually believes what he's saying is questionable.
As regards Moyes I think the jury is still out on his approach. The fact that he wants Mata suggests he isnt likely to stick with the current system. He's targetting very good players, of (in my opinion) the right type to make us less predictable. As it happens at the moment his options are limited - especially given that the two best players in the sqaud by a country mile are injured.
The need for players is nothing new. Moyes was clear on his need for reinforcements in the summer - so he clearly knew that he had issues - but the club failed him. He's been left in a dificult position in that regard.
The guy is replacing Anderson with Mata. Thats surely a move in the right direction.
Maybe, I could see us getting a result at against Liverpool, Arsenal and Everton which I can't see us doing under Moyes. Obviously with signing Mata and changing the system it might be different but I think to finish top 4 we have to beat the above teams.
I know, mate, I know...Still, I'm not convinced that our image of arrogance is really, fully deserved (regardless of a few supporters' chants & the desperate in-house mantra of 'the world's biggest club')...at least in comparison to some other major clubs.
He might but it'd be tough. Liverpool are the only team we could catch right now and we have to rely on them dropping points. We'd beat them at Old Trafford under Ferguson though and it'd cut the gap to 3 points.
Spot on with all of that.
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I think this post is spot on. Fergie did fall a bit out of touch with the direction the game has taken in recent years and Moyes seems just as out of touch but without all of the great other qualities sir Alex had.
jimy is very spot on there.
the signings fergei made post 2009, after the selling of ronaldo, and even some f***s up with one or two of our super talented youngsters, no way we were going to catch or even get close to barca. it was incredible we still managed to win the premiership bar 2012 and and get into the final of the CL in 2011. speaks true volume on how great sir alex is in terms of getting the best out of his players, but the true fact is that we kept getting behind in terms of modern football.
and we are feeling the heat of it this season, unfortunately.
the signings fergei made post 2009, after the selling of ronaldo, and even some f***s up with one or two of our super talented youngsters, no way we were going to catch or even get close to barca. it was incredible we still managed to win the premiership bar 2012 and and get into the final of the CL in 2011. speaks true volume on how great sir alex is in terms of getting the best out of his players, but the true fact is that we kept getting behind in terms of modern football.
and we are feeling the heat of it this season, unfortunately.
I disagree with you that Fergie lost touch with the modern game, I think instead he became hyper conscious of the change.
Ignore what he said about his players, the Boss would never write anything that would publicly undermine a Man Utd player. He built his whole management style on building a siege mentality, making his players feel loved and part of a project everyone was trying to drag down. The last thing Fergie would have done is publicly criticise the talent of his side. Performances yes, but he'd never say they're incapable of it just they fell short of their true potential (even if he was just talking them up to a frenzy).
In his last years Fergie became unadventurous. He started 2011-12 trying to play a quicker, more aggressive, high pressing game. But once we had that disaster at home against City he changed. He started relying on 'experience' e.g. players too old to run much meaning we played slower football based on a deep back line. Fergie ignored Pogba for 'experience', he started playing centre-backs in midfield in tight games more. Fergie could see the game had changed, he feared United's squad could not play that way and he started compensating by being less swashbuckling and relying on title winning know how of 'experience' to grind out results.
Based on his moves for Hazard, Lucas Moura etc. its clear Sir Alex knew where the faults in our side were. What he did was rely on tactics and skills (e.g. man management) that would allow him to continue winning even without managing to sign those targets. Clearly Moyes lacks that ability because he shows no ability either to play to the strengths of the squad he has or motivate them to play out of their skin on a regular basis.
He was selected by Ferguson, Gill and the board. They looked at his resume, compared it to the resumes of all the other available options, and concluded he was the best man to take United forward. They didn't select him because he was Scottish, or some other idiotic and retarded reason that has been suggested. That, along with his achievements at Everton, are enough for me to place my confidence in him. The board feel the same, otherwise he would be out of the club by now. I understand a lot of supporters and fans feel differently.
He has an alloted period to get things right (maybe 2 years if I'm guessing correctly).
Have you read Fergie's autobiography?
Others role, I hope he replace Anderson with Strootman.
Yes, and it was a useless waste of money, offering little insight into the workings of United while Ferguson was in charge.
Didn't you think it was rather strange that all Fergie banged on about with Moyes was how Scotish he is and how hard he works? I mean, he could have used that as a great way to show why Moyes was appointed, was great skills he would bring to the club. But he didn't. If thats what the best thing about Moyes is, then I don't trust the board or Fergie or Gill regarding his appointment. You say they compared all the resumes but they clearly can't have done, otherwise there is no way Moyes would have got the job.
Preface my below comments that I am in the camp of Moyes needs to be given at least 2 seasons before his position is evaluated.
I just read / heard that apparently in his post match comments that Moyes said that there wasn't exactly a plan for the penalties and that it was left to those on the field to figure it out - thus why senior players like Valencia and Evra didn't take them. If that's the case then I am a bit flabbergasted. That to me doesn't inspire any confidence in his leadership. How can the players be expected to look to him for guidance?
I just read / heard that apparently in his post match comments that Moyes said that there wasn't exactly a plan for the penalties and that it was left to those on the field to figure it out - thus why senior players like Valencia and Evra didn't take them. If that's the case then I am a bit flabbergasted. That to me doesn't inspire any confidence in his leadership. How can the players be expected to look to him for guidance?
I think the salient point here is that Fergie's book shouldn't be taken as proof positive of anything. The book appears to be a compilation of musings he has provided as responses to an interviewer's questions. What he says about Moyes reads like a response to questions about United's tradition of hiring Scottish managers - and Fergie's views on the possible connection between a certain background and certain qualities in a manager. It doesn't read as the actual reasons he provides for why Moyes was given the job.
It's like the infamous Ashley Young comment. I doubt very much the interviewer asked: "So, what was the most important part of your plan to overtake Barcelona?" whereupon Fergie answered: "Buying Ashely Young, obviously."
Moyes has been getting off lightly so far but I really hope his signings of Mata and maybe more can save his Utd managment career
Whats worrying about all of this is that many fans are saying Vidic at 32 years old and Carrick at 32 are past it and that is why we are losing games
But you don't hear too many wondering how Mourinho is able to rejuvenate 33 year old Terry and 32 year old Eto'o to be integral to his plans
but anyways Moyes can still turn it around with Fergies help and the right signings and I of course hope he does
Whats worrying about all of this is that many fans are saying Vidic at 32 years old and Carrick at 32 are past it and that is why we are losing games
But you don't hear too many wondering how Mourinho is able to rejuvenate 33 year old Terry and 32 year old Eto'o to be integral to his plans
but anyways Moyes can still turn it around with Fergies help and the right signings and I of course hope he does
I haven't read the book. But you'd have to say the huge proportion of the best British managers have been Scottish so it does seem like a valid topic for discussion.
Out of all domestic competitions by january, yet moyes is blameless.
@MJJ How can you possibly read the comments here and think people are saying he's blameless?
Excellent.
Perhaps a bit telling regarding the state of the caf that so many people were calling the post you responded to 'spot on' when in fact it wasn't.
That post was wrong, 07's is right.
Hopefully this is Moyes coming away from 442. Can anyone see him making such a drastic change? Let's face it, he's tried it and it's clearly not worked. Hopefully we see an end to Valencia/Young and touchline hugging, and embrace a 433 with two runners supporting Carrick at the base. That's my hope anyway.
Things were right to begin with, so his mission seems to have been: First screw things up comprehensively - if possible get United eliminated from the 14/15 champions league; then take two years to make things less bad, but not, of course, as good as you found them.
Indeed. The likes of Pirlo and Xavi are doing well on the very top level week in, week out. Scholes had one of the best seasons of his life at the age of 32. Neither Carrick nor Vidic should be considered finished.
In what sense?
I'd be amazed if that actually happened.
Fergie named his succesor - the club went and got him. None of this comparison stuff... because as someone has already said, Moyes' resume would not hold up against other "top" managers.
Read thr last two pages, half the people here arr absolving him of all blame.
I've defended Moyes a lot in this thread but I wouldn't say he is blameless. I think he deserves time to put things right but that is not to say he hasn't made mistakes. A big part of his job is motivating the players so he has to take a share of the blame for them looking utterly lacklustre. Tho many of the players themselves should he ashamed of themselves.
@MJJ That's precisely what I had done when I got to your comment and why i was baffled to see you comment. People arent saying he's blameless. Sorry. Not happening.
Yeah, a billion dollar company gives the reigns to a bloke, just because his predecessor says so.
Fair enough, thats the reaction I got from the likes of pocco anyway but maybe they have changed their stance. In that case, I retract the statement.
Even if they did it on SAF's say so, that is because SAF looked at all the candidates and considered their relative merits before backing Moyes. OK he may not have laid out people's cvs but he would have looked at their experience and character and how well suited they were to the job. He didn't just pick the name at random. Or worse, because he's Scottish.
In the sense that half the fans have been saying what is happening now is not his fault and that Fergie has to accept a lot of blame for the mess etc..these kinds of arguments to take the blame off him.......I mean those arguments are just plain silly to be honest as the buck stops with Moyes as to our current situation but hopefully he can rectify it with the players that come in in January.....Mata is a very good start
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