You don't have a clue about David Moyes then.
Moyes So Far!
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You don't have a clue about David Moyes then.
As much as everyone wants to keep repeating this.....Mourinhos eye gouge on Tito Vilanova a few seasons back costs him his chance at managing Utd...Fergie would have decided that any manager that behaves in such a way could not be trusted to behave under pressure at Utd and the image of the club was always priority for Fergie.
Fergies greatest ever mistake...even higher than the Pogba disaster was not even going in for Pep Guardiola when he was very gettable...i'm sure he is looking back at that now as a major missed opportunity
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He's probably just not very good. So much effort and still such archaic stick-on-shit football which makes us look as if we dont do anything on the training grounds.
What does he do with his time then, seeing as you seem to have a lot of insight into his everyday work?
He might have picked a good team at the start (not sure if it was the right one per say) but the set-up wasn't great... and his changes only made things worse really - especially taking off Kagawa.
Ultimately, from the 2nd half we sat back and looked to create opportunities on the counter - which is a) not something we should be doing at home and b) not something we should ever be doing against Sunderland. We invited Sunderland to have the ball and come at us, and you can't tell me that was puerly a player decision, because if it was, Moyes would have sent on different personel so we could get on the front font a bit more.
As you say Carrick goes on injured... he could replace him with the defensive option (Jones) the attacking option (Giggs) or the middle option (Cleverley) ... and of course, which does he go for?
To me, making things better would involve actually trying something different... but it's been the same shit for the best part of 2 months now.
Also, if Young is on instead of Valencia, if Giggs is on instead of Jones, do we miss 4 out of 5 penalties?
Ok, yo've convinced me. David Moyes has quickly learned from his mistakes at United and has adapted superbly. Best coach we've ever had.
This is his problem. Debate results all you like - there has been zero change despite the obvious being "its not working!". Last night he looked way out his depth.
You sound like you're about 10 and cry if we don't win 5-0 every week cos Barca or Bayern do.Come on, I obviously don't. We know Ferguson was a workaholic. I didn't have any special insight to tell you that. Moyes is a fecking grafter. It's well known. He won't do what he did at Everton for 11 years then suddenly shirk as soon as he got the Utd job.
And I didn't think I had to say it but perhaps I do, by calling him the hardest working manager, I am not calling him the best.
That is the reason I feel for him right now.
At the top level it's so important to ooze confidence. Sir Alex did that perfectly. The players were in awe. Mourinho does it perfectly too. Moyes? Oozing defeatism.
Standard top red reply. Also: Why should we play Barca every week?
We can sign all the Matas we want, but with Moyes at the helm we won't win another league. That's my opinion, and until I see significant changes in his management style or our performances -- neither of which have been remotely forthcoming over the past seven months -- I'm not inclined to alter it.
Yea, and Rafael can't defend, Chicharito can't link up with anybody, Welbeck can't score and this year is Anderson's year and so on.
Commendations
-Instinctively says the right thing
-Uncanny ability to judge players
-Mister Motivation
Errrmmm, they're his plus points?
Where's 'Scottish'? Is Scottish on there?
Commendations
-Instinctively says the right thing
-Uncanny ability to judge players
-Mister Motivation
Errrmmm, they're his plus points?
The author of that piece gets progressively more bitter as the seasons go on...
I'm bored of this man, how much longer do we have to put up with him?
A couple of years, maybe longer.
what was so annoying last night, was that when we went 1 - 0 up, we went so defensive...we didn't press more, the old united way. I mean for goodness sake, with 10 minutes left we were taking it to the corner flag....at home....to sunderland, its just so unlike the way Fergie managed his team. I'm quite dumfounded as to how far we have fallen. I mean this season so far, it's looks like one of the biggest falls in standards for a top team I think we have seen since the premiership started? Or perhaps I'm wrong.
I really hope he gets it right, or finds someway to instil motivation and confidence in the team for the rest of the season. Unfortunately, unless Mata is a catalyst, I just can't see where this is going to come from.
I really hope he gets it right, or finds someway to instil motivation and confidence in the team for the rest of the season. Unfortunately, unless Mata is a catalyst, I just can't see where this is going to come from.
Some great attitudes in here it must be said.
You's would have said the same about Fergie at the time....admit it!
You's would have said the same about Fergie at the time....admit it!
Fergie had a track record to back him up. Just as the likes of Mourinho, Ancelotti, Guardiola et el have, if they'd been appointed and things weren't working out.
Moyes doesn't have that. He has no proven record of success to back him, and give people a reason to back him.
And that was just to take it to extra time!
Our plan seemed to be, take it to extra time and hold on until we've won on away goals. It was just incredible.
Sorry but I just find his egotism nauseating. Christ knows why people think he's some kind of glamorous figure.
http://www1.skysports.com/football/...ed-transfer-to-man-utd-from-chelsea-is-unfair
"
Arsene Wenger thinks Juan Mata's proposed transfer to Man Utd from Chelsea is unfair"
Shut up Wenger! Imagine the muppet suicide if there was only one muppet window a year!
"
Arsene Wenger thinks Juan Mata's proposed transfer to Man Utd from Chelsea is unfair"
Shut up Wenger! Imagine the muppet suicide if there was only one muppet window a year!
Its hard to accept. Its frustrating. But considering the circumstances
Last nights side:
- 01 de Gea
- 02 Rafael
- 28 Büttner (Evra - 85' )
- 16 Carrick (Jones - 95' Booked )
- 12 Smalling
- 06 Evans
- 44 Januzaj Booked
- 24 Fletcher
- 14 Hernández
- 19 Welbeck
- 26 Kagawa
Now if we can get van Persie, Rooney playing, Add Mata, you'd have to think we'd improve. Football is so much easier when you got two guys up top banging in the goals. Suddenly everyone looks a better player. Confidence improves, and it goes on from there.
What does he want to happen? The rules to include a clause that teams can only sell to other teams if those teams haven't already played each other twice? That's certainly a fair rule.
Also, wrong thread
Aye, well, you know, personalities clash and all that, you egotistical bastard.
for me players came and went at united...but while they were here, they were always spoken to by a born winner....and therefore, naturally, he was listened to more and his opinions and vision trusted. It must be harder for winning players to trust and listen to a person who effectively has won nothing...just saying, there has to be a human nature to all this..
I realise that there's excellent reasons for the club recruiting someone as talented as José, chief - and it would be the pragmatic, progressive thing to do, to be fair - but I don't want United to have a ridiculously arrogant public image even if it's due to winning everything in sight (though I understand that isn't the most sound of objections, but there it is).
It's my faith in Fergie that's keeping me from jumping on Moyes, no one better to oversee and evaluate this transfer of power.
The squad really does have serious problems, not the least of which is our reliance on van Persie and Rooney coupled with our injury issues. Rio and Vidic aging may well be a bigger issue, considering our defensive solidity has long been fundamental to our success with those two paired in central defense.
There was a lot of complacency in the squad last season, I thought, and I think that's only been magnified this season. Players were blindsided by Fergie's retirement, expecting to spend another season under the greatest manager in history and instead find they are being led by someone who never won anything. Instead of trying to impress the new manager, it seems to me more like what happens in grade school when the substitute teacher is called in: most of the class decides to slack off.
But I'm feeling that we should probably look back with awe on our title run of last season, and the mastery of Sir Alex, more than we bemoan the tactics of Moyes.
We're already perceived to be arrogant as feck. Why bother trying to convince the public otherwise? Let's just get on with it, give them what they want: full-blown, proper disdain and arrogance.
I realise that there's excellent reasons for the club recruiting someone as talented as José, chief - and it would be the pragmatic, progressive thing to do, to be fair - but I don't want United to have a ridiculously arrogant public image even if it's due to winning everything in sight (though I understand that isn't the most sound of objections, but there it is).
Sorry. Couldn't resist.
Is this true?
I don't remember us having any attacks of substance until extra time, when our main attackers were already run ragged and half as effective as they would have been earlier on in the game.
We went 1-0 up and proceeded to try and defend for almost two hours. Its pathetic. As soon as we showed some ambition we opened Sunderland up easily but the rest of the game we were too frightened about conceding to press the advantage and put the game beyond doubt.
People will talk about Chicharito's miss and it was an extremely poor miss (even if his legs did look like they'd already gone) but in terms of raw numbers it was to be expected: Hernandez has a 33 per cent chance conversion rate, which is one of the highest in the league. Chico had three clear chances last night (a header at the far post 1st half, the break in extra time, and his goal). He maintained his 1 in 3 chance strike rate. Statistically had we given him 6 chances he'd have scored twice. Six chances at home against one of the worst teams in England is the minimum the champions should be making.
Our squad is not worst than Sunderland's. I can't take this low expectations stuff. I can't accept it. We're better than Sunderland (as we proved by going ahead within 3 minutes of them equalising on the night). We should be doing more to win games. I can remember games where we have been average and yet found a way to camp in the opposition box for the last 10-15 minutes sending in chance after chance, but the memory is fading...
We were justifiably punished for our lack of ambition last night. A lack of ambition Moyes observed from his dugout and did nothing to change.
He's right. It isn't fair and Arsene Wenger the king of all fairness should know.
I agree - sort of - with those who see the Mata signing as a litmus test for ol' Dave. If Mata turns out to be Kagawa 2.0 in a wide role - well, then I won't be feeling too optimistic. I don't think this will happen, though. Mata should be able to contribute more directly from a wide position, much like Januzaj has been doing when he has featured. Having two players in that category on the wings, combined with Rooney and RVP up front, should make a difference.
My stance on Moyes hasn't changed. We don't know precisely what he's doing behind the scenes and we have no way of measuring the exact impact of losing Fergie. The players are affected, perhaps to an extent nobody was prepared for: assessing the squad is difficult at the moment. There are many players I'm just not sure about. Are they good enough? Past it? Hard to tell when everything is in turmoil. Which of these players would be perfectly good squad options in a functioning team - and which of them should simply be shipped out and replaced? Which of the up and coming players are good enough to take over as automatic starters? I'm not confident we're just one LB away from having a top notch back four. Not in the least. We may have to strengthen more than we like to think in other areas than the obvious ones.
I've thought for years that Fergie retiring would be an enormous watershed for this club - how could it not be? We're halfway through our first season without him in charge. Far too early to draw any conclusions.
My stance on Moyes hasn't changed. We don't know precisely what he's doing behind the scenes and we have no way of measuring the exact impact of losing Fergie. The players are affected, perhaps to an extent nobody was prepared for: assessing the squad is difficult at the moment. There are many players I'm just not sure about. Are they good enough? Past it? Hard to tell when everything is in turmoil. Which of these players would be perfectly good squad options in a functioning team - and which of them should simply be shipped out and replaced? Which of the up and coming players are good enough to take over as automatic starters? I'm not confident we're just one LB away from having a top notch back four. Not in the least. We may have to strengthen more than we like to think in other areas than the obvious ones.
I've thought for years that Fergie retiring would be an enormous watershed for this club - how could it not be? We're halfway through our first season without him in charge. Far too early to draw any conclusions.
I really think that Fergie was losing touch with the modern game in his later years. He said in his book that he signed Young to catch up with Barcelona and that Welbeck and Cleverley were as good as Thiago Alcantara. I mean who on God's green earth, educated in football or not would agree with such absurdity?
His transfer activity post Ronaldo was sketchy at best. Football went through a bit of a revolution led by the Spanish in those years and we sat by and ignored it.
It is incredible that he maintained a level of success during those years and with the players that he had but I think that all these things point to a manager losing touch with the modern game. Are we seeing the consequences of that now with limited players and a manager sharing that old school British philosophy, only without those intangible and rare attributes that Ferguson brought to the position?
@#07
I've not watched the match back but remember thinking we missed at least 4 or 5 opportunities to bury them. Apart from Hernandez, almost sure Adnan had a great chance and then he should have fed in Phil Jones for a one on one but took the shot on, which wasn't the best decision. (but something that will improve as he plays more of course.)
I'm not saying we played well. But we did have chances to finish them and if you take it and make it 2-0 suddenly the whole picture changes. It's what happened a lot last season. van Persie would score an important goal and everything would change. The other players would suddenly look better because we were winning, the pressure was off and confidence was sky high.
I'm not happy with things right now but I honestly believe it will get better. If Moyes still has us playing like this with a fit RvP, Rooney and Mata then I'll be worried. Hopefully with the world class players back it'll be enough to get us top 4, forget about this season, buy a few players in the summer and see what next year brings.
I've not watched the match back but remember thinking we missed at least 4 or 5 opportunities to bury them. Apart from Hernandez, almost sure Adnan had a great chance and then he should have fed in Phil Jones for a one on one but took the shot on, which wasn't the best decision. (but something that will improve as he plays more of course.)
I'm not saying we played well. But we did have chances to finish them and if you take it and make it 2-0 suddenly the whole picture changes. It's what happened a lot last season. van Persie would score an important goal and everything would change. The other players would suddenly look better because we were winning, the pressure was off and confidence was sky high.
I'm not happy with things right now but I honestly believe it will get better. If Moyes still has us playing like this with a fit RvP, Rooney and Mata then I'll be worried. Hopefully with the world class players back it'll be enough to get us top 4, forget about this season, buy a few players in the summer and see what next year brings.
Unfortunately you might have a good point.
Ridiculous argument from Wenger.
What I find interesting is this stat: Cross Per Game = 27
I thought I'd check this out considering it's a fair bit of a gap between us and Swansea. Turns out that our crossing stats in the past 5 years averages out at: 27.4 crosses per game.
Liverpool's had an interesting change in fortunes under Rodgers. From 09/10 to 11/12 they were averaging 26 crosses. Since Rodgers took over it's down to 20. The average across the teams in the premier league has also been decreasing from 23.0 in 09/10 to 21.6 so far this season. Arsenal and Chelsea have also both massively reduced their crossing as well.
Wigan is another interesting example. Many people applauded their brand of football under Martinez. He averaged 18.8 crosses in the 4 years he was at Wigan. Swansea are an interesting one, first two season in the PL they averaged 20 crosses, this season they're up at 24 and doing pretty badly in the League. Newcastle is another example, in 11/12 they averaged 19 crosses and were near the top of the table. Last season they struggled big time and were at 25, this season they're back down to 20.
In conclusion. Crossing is ancient Dave, get the ball on the floor!
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