It's how arranged/assisted marriages take place in many cultures. Sir Alex is the don of United, and he simply chose what he thought was right for the club.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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I really don't want to keep having a go at him but this is shocking.
I don't know if its just me but I just can't understand how he can make the same mistakes again and again.
In virtually every game he makes no attempt to win the midield battle. If we had a set of two good midfielders, two good wingers and two good strikers, who had the right balance and were playing in sync then you could get away with it. But we don't. We're lucky if half those players are good key alone playing well.
And the thing is every team is playing against us in a similar way. Flood the midfield. We don't have the consistent quality out wide or upfront atm to counter it but he seems completely blind to it, or I'm just seeing something completely different.
Yesterday our midfielders weren't particularly good, but when the defenders actually have the ball to them and we had fletch, carrick and kagawa in close proximity we got control and we managed to build something. But he took Kagawa off when Hernandez was doing nothing except breaking down our moves and continued with Welbeck as a number ten when he's not.
If we had been dominating and then there's just an individual player error like De Gea's, then fair enough, but the tactical mistakes completely imo led to us being in that position, we were unlucky how their goal came but not in the fact that they scored.
I don't know if its just me but I just can't understand how he can make the same mistakes again and again.
In virtually every game he makes no attempt to win the midield battle. If we had a set of two good midfielders, two good wingers and two good strikers, who had the right balance and were playing in sync then you could get away with it. But we don't. We're lucky if half those players are good key alone playing well.
And the thing is every team is playing against us in a similar way. Flood the midfield. We don't have the consistent quality out wide or upfront atm to counter it but he seems completely blind to it, or I'm just seeing something completely different.
Yesterday our midfielders weren't particularly good, but when the defenders actually have the ball to them and we had fletch, carrick and kagawa in close proximity we got control and we managed to build something. But he took Kagawa off when Hernandez was doing nothing except breaking down our moves and continued with Welbeck as a number ten when he's not.
If we had been dominating and then there's just an individual player error like De Gea's, then fair enough, but the tactical mistakes completely imo led to us being in that position, we were unlucky how their goal came but not in the fact that they scored.
What? We don't, we can't press, we're not getting better at it, we're exactly as clueless as ever. I don't know what you're on about.
I'd genuinely rather Mourinho was our manager than Mata was our player. Is it sacrilege to say that yet?
Same here.
I genuinely think that the biggest challenge for Fergie was changing the mindset of the players he inherited. Fergie said many times that his players were notorious bottlers and underachievers and there was acceptance for drinking culture at OT. To get rid off that and create a team of professionals and winners was the biggest task IMO. He also laid foundations for a proper club structure (youth, facilities, stadium capacity etc).
Moyes' task is only to rebuild the team. He doesn't need and can't get 4 years to do so. He should be judged in the middle of next season IMO.
Join the club.
Signing Mata for £37m could come back to bite him in the arse if it doesn't help rejuvenate our season in the PL. If, after getting one of the best playmakers in the world, we're still playing god awful football, then I'll be worried. Well, I already am worried, but I'll be really worried.
I think only the old romantics and "Mourinho's a soulless cnut" brigade wouldn't want that.
Just read this piece on him from an Everton fan.Does not sound encouraging.
http://www.toffeeweb.com/club/managers/moyes.asp
http://www.toffeeweb.com/club/managers/moyes.asp
How confident is everyone that Moyes will change the system and / or utilise Mata correctly?
For me the obvious formation would be to play 4-2-3-1 with RVP, Rooney, januzaj and Mata as the front 4.. Do I think Moyes will play that? No.
This.
He will have spent over £60 million and according to some, has plenty more to spend. However I'm not sure if the board are going to let him spend it, the rumours about Fergie being involved in the Mata deal stinks off distrust. I can see a new manager coming in the summer with the board picking the players now.
A part of me thinks Moyes had nothing to do with the Mata deal.
We always play 4-2-3-1 we've been playing it for years. We need to get Rooney, Mata and Van Persie on the pitch together.
You play Mata and Januzaj/Kagawa behind Rooney and RVP like City do. There's too much quality there not to win more games even if we are playing pathetic football. Then you go out in the summer and buy your Toure/Fernandinho and a competent fullback.
You play Mata and Januzaj/Kagawa behind Rooney and RVP like City do. There's too much quality there not to win more games even if we are playing pathetic football. Then you go out in the summer and buy your Toure/Fernandinho and a competent fullback.
Am i the only one feeling that gollum is being sabotaged? 4 man utd players missed a penalty....bloody hell
I can't see him misutilize our (soon to be) club transfer record player. Especially given that we now essentially have just the one target to achieve this season (4 th place or better in the league). He'll be digging his grave if he does that.
We've been playing 442 all season.
I wouldn't be surprised to see us stick to a 442 with Mata wide left and Valencia keeping his place in the side.
Last night was essentially Moyes' reign epitimised in a game.
A combination of: very poor tactics; trying to sit on a slender lead; poor second half performance; inviting pressure unnecessarily; inability to motivate players; and the absolute worst luck you could expect.
As Cina has said the signing of Mata will be nothing but good for Manchester United, but could prove costly for Moyes. If he can't motivate a side with attacking talents like Januzaj, Rooney, RVP and Mata to finish merely fourth, then he really doesn't deserve another season to show he can do better.
Bear in mind he'll have spent over £65m net since he arrived, the biggest spend in United's history and more than Wenger, Rodgers and Mourinho (with a superior team to start with).
A combination of: very poor tactics; trying to sit on a slender lead; poor second half performance; inviting pressure unnecessarily; inability to motivate players; and the absolute worst luck you could expect.
As Cina has said the signing of Mata will be nothing but good for Manchester United, but could prove costly for Moyes. If he can't motivate a side with attacking talents like Januzaj, Rooney, RVP and Mata to finish merely fourth, then he really doesn't deserve another season to show he can do better.
Bear in mind he'll have spent over £65m net since he arrived, the biggest spend in United's history and more than Wenger, Rodgers and Mourinho (with a superior team to start with).
Not at all. Mourinho is obviously far better at what he does than Mata is, and the manager is anyway a way more important person.
I'd rather have Mourinho than Mata here too.
Mourinho would have been perfect for us.
Mourinho would have been perfect for us.
If the football doesn't improve with Mata he simply has to go. There wouldn't be a single reason for keeping him if he can't get us playing well with those players in attack.
Moyes was picked once fergie made the decision to retire (before may obviously)
Sounds about right. Exactly what we are seeing. He needs to go.
Jojojo for management. I think you are completely spot on here.
I know it's brought up again and again, but the decision to surround himself with the people he had at Everton was utterly daft... why bring a set-up that didn't achieve any tangible success with you? Why not - if you feel you want to make a step-up and don't want to keep Fergie's guys- get a new backroom staff capable of doing such a thing (people with progressive ideas would certainly have helped)?
To bring your old mates with you - effectively a bunch of yes men - is, to be frank, a bit cowardly.
To bring your old mates with you - effectively a bunch of yes men - is, to be frank, a bit cowardly.
It amuses me that you played a dogshit poor Sunderland, who missed 3 penalties in the shootout to boot, and still couldn't get through.
Just about the best way for you to go out - Losing to inferior opposition when they aren't even having a good day.
Just about the best way for you to go out - Losing to inferior opposition when they aren't even having a good day.
Jesus, that's a very alarming read.Those criticisms are pretty much the ones I would have on Moyes currently.
Not just last night. There have been so many matches that have followed the same old tired routine of poor football, ad hoc attacks, little technical play and a complete lack of self belief. We just look such an average unit completely devoid of any fresh ideas and confidence. I'm almost used to it. I never thought we'd see us this hopeless this frequently. Every match seems to be a "wow, it's really gotten shit now" moment.
I'd even offer Rooney in a direct swap for Mourinho if Abramovich falls for it.
We are obviously attempting to press better than we ever have under Ferguson. If there was such a thing as a stat showing balls won in the opposition half, I am certain that it would be higher than in previous seasons.
Gutted for the man. Nothing is going right.
Lets see what he can do with our main strikers fit and Mata coming in.
Lets see what he can do with our main strikers fit and Mata coming in.
It's easy to jump on the bandwagon and ignore the consistently high placing for a relatively average, relatively financial poor team. However, it does feel a lot like what we are seeing.
I have to agree with everyone. Mata in a way is the perfect signing to test Moyes as a manager. Make top 4, he can have another season, fail and he should definitely go. I would even be tempted to say if the gap to 4th rises to more than 8 points he should go and give another manager a small chance to turn around our fortunes before it really is too late! So really what that means is one loss to us and a win for Liverpool and Moyes should be out!
Why are you gutted for him? He - like all of our players - need to sort themselves out. Much like our players are acting like massive wusses, Moyes needs to grow a pair and realise that to win games we might have to actually try something different.
He's being far too conservative/reserved in his approach - he who dares and all that.
I'm gutted for him because he clearly cares and is working his bollocks off to make things better. But nothing is going right. Last night was his season in a nutshell. He picked the right team, played poorly yet took the lead, still made chances to kill the game off, didn't, restricted them to one shot on target all night, a pot shot from their right back from outside the box, our keeper who's been brilliant all year, makes a howler, Carrick goes off injuried, players miss 4 out of 5 penalties.
It doesn't rain, it pours.
Yes we sat back and we were too deep at times but we're in the middle of our biggest crisis in 10 years. These players don't know whats hit them. We're missing all our main players and leaders. It's only natural the players will drop deep and appear to be playing negative.
If you can't feel for him now then you never will. I feel gutted for some of the players as well. Danny and Adnan walked off teary eyed last night. It's a rough time for everyone at the club. But we must stick together, rally round and get our main strikers back. (our only two genuine world class players, not included Mata)
Is he? So far it looks like he barely learns from his mistakes and we look very poor tactically against pretty much everyone. It's not really bad luck when we play like crap for 5 months, he should work harder to make things right because it doesn't look like we are improving at all.
Anyone and everyone who knows Moyes will tell you he's pretty much the hardest working manager in the league. Out of all the things you can throw at him, his work ethic can not be questioned.
This is obvious bullshit. Hard work constitutes constant analysis, learning from past mistakes and being able to adapt. All Things Moyes is clearly very bad at.
What does that even mean? Does he spend significant amounts of time analysing his opposition? It doesn't look like it when you see our performances in big games. Does he spend a lot of time analysing his own players? Doesn't look like it either when he's consistently misusing them.
It's not the sheer amount of hours you put in, it's what you do with them. His work hasn't beared ANY fruits whatsoever aside from Januzaj emergence so far.
So many players seem to have lost the basic ability to control a football. We also looked knackered - so much for the fabled physical work he is doing in training. Is he just training them too hard? Who knows. What we know is this:
1. Almost every player to a man is a level below what they were last season (some exceptions granted)
2. We continue to play "get it wide, cross it in, fail" football
3. Our centre halfs cannot distribute the ball for shit. (Evans aimlessly lumped the ball forward 8 times in the 2nd half last night after receiving the ball from De Gea/Smalling).
4. There has been no discernible shift in our style - either in game or throughout season. What are we moving too long term? God knows.
Not even counting the fact that our midfield dropped 10 yards deeper from the 50th minute onwards last night, alarm bells should be ringing for Moyes. To get time, he has to demonstrate that improvements are being made - he has failed in this sense so far.
Of course, there is another way of looking at this. Any team in the world would struggle without RVP and Rooney. Now, we have played without them at times last season (some would argue Rooney didnt appear at all last season) and didnt see this bad a level of performance. Was our record based on nothing but pure fear factor? i.e. SAF had built up such a reputation and expectation that it really was nothing more than a house of cards? (if that makes sense). Take away the great man and all of a sudden teams have a go, therefore, exploiting weaknesses that were always there.
Merits in both i suppose - the latter does not account for a drop in performance from all players, but its happened. Moyes lost Rene because he wanted to take training himself so he needs to turn this around. Can he? I dont think so - ive never thought he was right as most on here know. We gambled by appointing him and its backfiring. I hope he turns it around cause i actually feel sorry for him right now.
The old adage is that its better to be a lucky manager than a good manager - Moyes has no luck. Some things just dont work out and despite the many qualities Moyes possesses, i just dont believe they match up to a Manchester United manager.
1. Almost every player to a man is a level below what they were last season (some exceptions granted)
2. We continue to play "get it wide, cross it in, fail" football
3. Our centre halfs cannot distribute the ball for shit. (Evans aimlessly lumped the ball forward 8 times in the 2nd half last night after receiving the ball from De Gea/Smalling).
4. There has been no discernible shift in our style - either in game or throughout season. What are we moving too long term? God knows.
Not even counting the fact that our midfield dropped 10 yards deeper from the 50th minute onwards last night, alarm bells should be ringing for Moyes. To get time, he has to demonstrate that improvements are being made - he has failed in this sense so far.
Of course, there is another way of looking at this. Any team in the world would struggle without RVP and Rooney. Now, we have played without them at times last season (some would argue Rooney didnt appear at all last season) and didnt see this bad a level of performance. Was our record based on nothing but pure fear factor? i.e. SAF had built up such a reputation and expectation that it really was nothing more than a house of cards? (if that makes sense). Take away the great man and all of a sudden teams have a go, therefore, exploiting weaknesses that were always there.
Merits in both i suppose - the latter does not account for a drop in performance from all players, but its happened. Moyes lost Rene because he wanted to take training himself so he needs to turn this around. Can he? I dont think so - ive never thought he was right as most on here know. We gambled by appointing him and its backfiring. I hope he turns it around cause i actually feel sorry for him right now.
The old adage is that its better to be a lucky manager than a good manager - Moyes has no luck. Some things just dont work out and despite the many qualities Moyes possesses, i just dont believe they match up to a Manchester United manager.
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