I don't think effort is the word anyway, I'd call it more balls and pride.... they'll often go a long way in making up for shortages in form and ability... our players aren't showing any.
Moyes So Far!
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I don't think effort is the word anyway, I'd call it more balls and pride.... they'll often go a long way in making up for shortages in form and ability... our players aren't showing any.
He's been largely fantastic this season, especially when played in his proper position.
He's young, versatile and United through and through. Selling him is the most stupid suggestion in this thread, and there's plenty of competition.
Maybe it's semantics then as balls/pride is derived from confidence for most people.
Would be nice to see the statistic of how much in total the ground covered by United under Fergie and Moyes. It could tell if 'effort' is the main reason for lack of result.
Does it mean that if this team 'run more' than they are now, the result would be much closer to last season?
Does it mean that if this team 'run more' than they are now, the result would be much closer to last season?
Everything I've said tonight has been in the context of tonights performance.
Again, this isn't what I said... I said the players aren't showing heart, pride or bollocks, which I see as primarily their own responsibility, particularly with players like Evra, Carrick, Vidic, senior players who should be leading by example.
Again, lets go back to what I actually said shall we, which is that I think Moyes needs time, maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong. As far as tonight is concerned I think the players on the fields should be the target of the most immediate disgust.
I'll go with the 8 ball if you have one handy though... other than that I actually am off to bed now.
Disappointed obviously you want to get to cup finals, but it's no surprise, the season has been a write off, and while I do not under any circumstance accept that fact as being good enough out of the management team, I am kind of willing to to see it out and see what happens next season, but my biggest fear is ending up in the Europa league. That will feck us up before a ball is even kicked in August. I had hopes at various points of the season and in various matches of turning things around, tonight being the prime example, get to a final, sign mata, a buzz about the place again, but there seems to be a trend of hope that quickly turns to shit. Rooney and RVP coming back, sure they have been involved in most of the crap we have been served to date. Mata signing, IF he signs, (remember there was bizarre talk of mannone out of nowhere probably done to unsettle him before this match), the way things are going, even if mata does sign, do people really expect that he will be the catalyst to get us into 4th? Negative I know but what other way can anyone be so far and make no mistake, it is for the most part down to the management team, difficult job granted after SAF, not this difficult though, with the exception of Januzaj there is a lack of direction, belief and confidence going on all over pitch on a regular basis, basic stuff. And all this crap served up with the uncertainty of what thresholds the manager is being judged by because the owners nor the board have opened their mouth, the only indication you have is that the manager has a 6 year contract and at press conferences smiles his way through another embarrassment (in charge of THE BIGGEST CLUB IN THE WORLD) seemingly without a care in the World. It is clear our standards have dropped, and that is to some degree understandable on a temporary basis, but imo I have seen nothing under Moyes, that this is temporary and just needs adjusting or a player or two, there are so many basic things wrong, over too long a period, that signing even the biggest of players will not fix it to the level that is demanded, given he is currently working with a finely tuned bunch of talented and Champion footballers.
Can you imagine how long the Moyes conversations would go on with an 8 Ball?
I'm up for it.
Right whatever
Can you honestly contest the fact that Welbeck is having a very good season?
If you said "very good last month or so" that'd be more accurate. Season as a whole? Very debateable.
Well I did a feck load of benzos and MDMA this afternoon so I'm up for pretty much anything... I really am too old for this shit.
I've a board meeting at 11 tomorrow, thats going to be interesting. I might just go in and say I'm not confident in our MD, don't like the strategy, and shant be arsed to do much of whats expected of me until someone does something about it for me... see how it goes down.
Effort = go extra mile = run more?
You've never kicked a ball or played a team sport of any sort in your life have you?
Honestly now.
I see what you did there.
Can I have some MDMA? I reckon Moyes looks much better on lots of mud.
Silly question. I never make even the simplest cellphone, but I can tell which one is better.
He's a striker....Who everyone says "is not a natural finisher"
I can guarantee you this guy would be gone if he wasn't a youth product nor would the pundits me licking his hole if he wasn't English....
Forlan has a better record with us and we called him poor when he was here.
We've gotten rid of far better players then Welbeck....And I have been supportive of him for years and wanted him to be make it above Macheda and the likes so it's not as if I have an agenda here man
He's certainly been better this season but even still he has been unbelievably patchy. He flits between looking class and looking terrible so often it's really hard to judge his potential or likelihood of fulfilling it.
Its all gone I'm afraid dude, all went down the hatch at 3pm, I was working from home, board and it seemed like a good idea at the time. Less so now, but considering its nearly 2am, I've been awake for 20 hours, haven't eaten since lunchtime yesterday, you know what. I feel fecking aaaammmmzzzzzzziiiinnnng.
But I seriously need to go to bed!
Truth be told half the reason I'm putting it off is I know I'll be like an eel and the missus knows full well what I've been up to...
Anyway,,, fffffuuuuuuccckk offffff I have to go to bed or there'll be no point, I'm up at 6!
He had a great December... apart from that he's been pretty shit (because he was played on the wing or in the hole most of the other times). Overall he's having a decent at best season, but he has been good when playing as the main striker ahead of Rooney.
To think that Moyes has spent nearly £65 million just on two players so far and possibly more to be spent either in the next few days or over the summer.... bet he feels like a kid at a candy store!
To be honest I doubted he'd ever spend anymore than one big ish signings worth so fair play to him. Will be interesting to see what repercussions there are in the future, glazier and budget wise.
Awful manager, awful coaching set up, just a ludicrous appointment all round. His hiring will go down as one of the biggest sporting feck ups of all time.
Heh. After all those lean years...
At this point, if you're not going to sack him, then you have to give him a blank check.
The Fellaini fiasco aside, for a legitimate test of his ability I'd say he needs to be given the players we've been crying out for: two CMs, one LB, and a winger. Get him the players he says he needs, and observe. On paper it's the only way to know if he can handle the job.
He's inherited an extension of SAF's personality, so it's slightly ludicrous to blame the man for not being able to manage that.
SAF, like all elite-level sports managers, bought squad players who were battlers first and footballers second - you need them to keep the superstars honest.
Moyes is playing mostly with those squad players/role players right now. They don't work right without the one or two superstars that complete the set.
To be fair, Moyes also inherited some of the best English talents around, at least what some thought. THe conveyor belt / waterfall method of young, medium and well experienced players. If Moyes starts pushing out the most experienced players next summer, this Fergie 'continuous renewal' strategy will be thrown out window for quick wins and short term results... precisely the opposite of why they brought Moyes in to start with.
Maybe Fergie's mistake was the misreading his senior players into think that his 'extensions' ie senior players aka Fergie Lites will still have the hunger to drive the team/club with or without him and Moyes would be an administrator.
He strikes me as a man who has a bit of an inferiority complex. You look at the best managers, the likes of Fergie, Mourinho, Guardiola, etc etc...and they have that personality of a winner. You can just tell by the way they talk, the way they conduct themselves...they have that ego, they are 100% confident in themselves and their methods. Its just natural. And that translates to the players, they buy into it. They see a winner and they instinctively follow them.
And I just don't think Moyes has that at all. He doesn't have that personality to come in and get players to back him, to buy into him. He hasn't got that natural winners mentality, or the kind of personality thats gonna get players to naturally follow him. To me, he just conveys negativity, a trier, the kind of person that will work hard but ultimately always finish 2nd. And I don't think there's much you can do to change it, you either have that winners mentality or you don't.
And I just don't think Moyes has that at all. He doesn't have that personality to come in and get players to back him, to buy into him. He hasn't got that natural winners mentality, or the kind of personality thats gonna get players to naturally follow him. To me, he just conveys negativity, a trier, the kind of person that will work hard but ultimately always finish 2nd. And I don't think there's much you can do to change it, you either have that winners mentality or you don't.
Off the field his big test is whether he can get Rooney to sign a new contract. That would be a victory of sorts given Rooney's disaffection with Ferguson.
Also, I was just listening to this podcast with Andy Mitten (http://www.newstalk.ie/player/podca...cini_and_man_united_on_edge_in_the_cup)...and he says that Moyes keeps his tactics really close to his chest, and that he doesn't even tell the players, I mean wtf? That literally makes no sense at all.
That literally makes no sense at all.I think Andy Mitten was commentating on his team selection and that the player's didn't know 'til an hour before kick off.Also, I was just listening to this podcast with Andy Mitten (http://www.newstalk.ie/player/podca...cini_and_man_united_on_edge_in_the_cup)...and he says that Moyes keeps his tactics really close to his chest, and that he doesn't even tell the players, I mean wtf?
tbf. You would have an inferiority complex when you are dealing with a squad multi-medal winners. Moyes mentioned earlier in an interview that he doesn't plan on shouting anything from the roof tops until United wins a few trophies under his watch. Modesty personified.
The big question is 'if'
It's temporary, of course. One-time expense.
He also unfortunately has to accept the 'couldn't win without money' tag. If he ends up staying and being successful that will go away though.
There's nothing that says Moyes can't maintain that kind of conveyor belt system once he gets it started up more in line with his own terms.
A lot of people saw the SAF/Gill/Abramovich pic and instinctively went to SAF 'stepping in' to mop up Moyes' mess. I thought the opposite and SAF had gone to the Glazers and said 'It's unfair for David to suffer for my mistakes. We need to act now if we want to give him a proper chance." Subtle difference, but a big one.
There is no need for that
You can perform to an acceptable level with our current squad. If we hover between 3rd-4th I believe everyone would have taken that he has done a great job considering the magnitude of the job. Nobody expect us to win anything with the current squad. But if he can't at least manage the current team into 4th, it is simply not good enough all if and buts aside. Not to mention nothing has changed for the past 6mths, there is no visible attempt at changing things that doesnt work bar a tweak or two in who's playing. You don't need 11 world class player to perform "good", ask Everton in Moyes Era
The fecking Glazers need to invest in a cloning machine whilst Fergie is still alive and lucid. Thats my simple solution.
How difficult can that be compared to getting United to play attractive football again under Davy.
How difficult can that be compared to getting United to play attractive football again under Davy.
Yeah, I meant to fix that. What I meant was the 150m-ish posted earlier and not some City-type orgy. He needs about 3 or 4 players for us to be able to legitimately judge him. At the prices we're likely to pay that's probably around 38m per for around 150m.
I agree (it's in the earlier post) our squad isn't anything close to as bad as some are saying. It's just that that's literally all Moyes has right now; squad players.
While I have serious doubts about his ability, it's stupid to judge him without giving him those 3 or 4 players first.
Thats the thing that i wonder about the choice. With some managers, you are almost assured of medals.
The choice of Moyes means you need to see if he can deliver. A club as big (and leveraged) as United ought not to take chances and risk our status on gambles regardless of whether he has a 'warchest' or not.
Please no more blame on the quality of the players crap. The team is more than good enough to knock out Sunderland over two games, the manager isnt.
On a night when DDG made a massive error and we missed 4 our of 5 penalties?
Really?
The ideal scenario is :
1st season : hover 3rd-4th. Get 1 quality signing and few prospect
2nd season : maybe properly challenging while adding quality and developing Adnan
3rd season : probably win it
You just don't expect us to spunk 150M on 4 world class signing, even Madrid didn't do that every year. They bring Bale and build on what they have. Most managers did that, no teams ever spunk 150M in one go (unless you want to start up building ala city / chelsea in their first two season)
1st season : hover 3rd-4th. Get 1 quality signing and few prospect
2nd season : maybe properly challenging while adding quality and developing Adnan
3rd season : probably win it
You just don't expect us to spunk 150M on 4 world class signing, even Madrid didn't do that every year. They bring Bale and build on what they have. Most managers did that, no teams ever spunk 150M in one go (unless you want to start up building ala city / chelsea in their first two season)
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