Monday night WBA v Everton, last minute of the game the commentators say,"What a great game we have seen tonight. I remember two years ago we were here and we watched one of the worst games I've ever witnessed" Everton apparently won but that was Moyes's team and i am not surprised.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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I think Moyes days are numbered. He has not displayed any tactical skill since becoming manager. If I missed it please point it out. Wrong guy for the job. Allthough I will admit that shortly after Fergie took over and a 4-0 loss to Man City(the old shower, not this quatar shower) I did say Fergie out. SO I Have been wrong before.
Those commentators were clearly morons and so are you if you think that was a great game on Monday.
Rooney doesn't really have a place in this debate because he's recognised as an exceptional British player whereas Danny & Clevs are not at that level. And both Wayne & RVP - so vital in recent times - have been absent lately...part of the reason why this season's first team resembles a reserve side at present.
Never happening with Moyes is it. I hope behind the scenes the club are looking for a replacement for the summer. Nothing wrong in admitting we made the wrong choice and moving on.
Coaches need to go, Neville and Giggs are rookies, Round and Lumsden are getting away with murder at this level, Woods doesnt seem to be letting us down
Did you not watch this game or us all season. We are not going to get fourth.
I have no idea how we can tell any of that, comes down to the manager, he has to imprint his style and ideas on the squad and the squad looks clueless apart from Januzaj.
Exactly,,,, if the tactics could have been 'look lads, play on all 4's.. only control the ball with your head and bite anything within range' fair enough. I'd still expect to see 11 lads flying around on their hands and knees looking to bite everything though....
Been undecided on this for a while, I think the closest to a conclusion that I can come is that we need to see a reason to keep him come the end of the season, rather than vice versa. Otherwise he should go. These first 6 months have been a disaster, if that's not being too dramatic, and we need to show something significant between now and May where there's actually some hope for the future. Otherwise keeping him on is a pointless waste of everyone's time.
It wasnt but how bad most the other game had been.
I disagree, even without RVP and Rooney. We're a much better side than what has been on show for the last few weeks.
Agreed, our experienced, club captain let frustration get the better of him and he decided to make an ill advised, pointless, mildly reckless tackle which has ended up with him missing 3 games as a result.
So we completely ignore any responsibility the players have to perform? Excellent.
The way its going, no. Add in Rooney and Van Persie returning from injury and the inclusion of Mata, and I'd be shocked if we didn't get top 4. One world class player can make all the difference sometimes, but 3? If they don't change our season then nothing can.
Agreed. We should comfortably be beating teams like Sunderland and Swansea with or without them.
Players will have to take responsibility which is why I imagine we will see a few leave in the summer.
Vidic gets one red card per season on average. That's not particularly out of the ordinary, stupid though it was.
And only the players can dominate and keep possesion... unless Moyes and Phil are going to kit out... at least they might have shown a bit of bollocks.
Although it's sad to see that so many are starting to lose faith in our manager on here, it's not like they all want Moyes to fail. We all want things to improve, but we also naturally want to see United succeed in games like tonight, the games that United traditionally live for, but it just wasn't good enough.
How long does it take before you just have to question if he's the right man for the job? I think that it's natural to at least question it at this stage.
The fact that he doesn't pick up a lot of reds makes the decision to go into that challenge even worse doesn't it?
Based on what? The players we have are obviously no better than the players in those sides. RVP carried the side last year and Rooney has carried it this. With those 2, they elevate us to a different level entirely.
Well, it would be helpful if someone would actually move into the spaces to receive passes.
When I look at the current United, I see no structure in their game. No running or passing routes, no off the ball movement, no interchanging. All this can be studied and prepared in training and is the job of the manager to oversee that and give the right pointers.
Oh, you would be surprised how much a manager/coach can influence the mentality and confidence of the players. If it would be just a selected few players then you could put it on the players, but it is a collective problem. This shows me, that Moyes has to make a horrible job at motivation and being a motivator is a core part of the job of a manager. The only player with real confidence is Januzaj and with him it comes more down to a fearlessness, which can be often found in youngsters.
This has to be tactical. Otherwise it would make no sense to rely so extremely on width. If it is not tactical and in the mindset of all players, then Moyes has failed to correct that in the last half year. It makes you very predictable and thus even lesser teams can put pressure on you and prevent your play, because they know exactly what you want to do. It is simply very easy to shut you down, if you have only one or two plays in your play book.
Right now, you basically have to rely on pure individual class to make something happen, which is also the reason why missing RvP and Rooney is hurting you so much. Normally you can win games without those strokes of genius by playing a well running system and preparing for your opponent. The last point is another thing which can be criticised with Moyes. I see no adaption on the way your opponent plays. You always play the same style, which hurts you badly.
No, but there'a a balance, and some would suggest that people like you go a bit too far the other way.
So what are we saying our defending getting a red card is the reason we couldn't hold out a one nil win?
I think that's his standard one silly red card of the season out of the way to be honest. It's not a new thing.
Yes, that's absolutely fair enough. Unless things pick up, he won't have the time to prove himself (if indeed he actually possesses the talent to be able to prove himself).
Of course I have, we have been shocking but as bad as we have been we are six behind Liverpool and have to play them at home.
With the arrival of Mata I think it is doable.
The look on his face when De Gea made the fumble...
Feel so bad for him.
Feel so bad for him.
Not the end of the world to go out, but Moyes got it all wrong. Backs to the wall defending, for 2 hours, against Sunderland?
Hold your hats, gentlemen! We've got an insider here. Sit around and listen while he tells you exactly what's happening within the club and how to fix it.
I just feel if we dont want to sack the manager we have to surround him with more experianced and world class coaches, I mean, if our coaches cant impose a bit of fluidity and basic passing on our team in training then they arent good enough, Moyes says what he wants but its up to the trainers and coaches to do the groundwork in training
Not at all. Some of those out on the pitch tonight won't be United players in the Summer. But it's far too easy to point at the players and say they're the ones responsible when our entire season has been dreadful. The players weren't responsible for removing the entire staff team, nor are they responsible for tactics or substitutions. Lets also be fair, Sir Alex worked wonders with the squad last season, he made the players over perform, the reverse is also true that Dave is currently making the players under perform. The reality is somewhere in between.
We really shouldn't be playing in the manner we did today against Sunderland. There are no excuses for that, we got out performed in a two leg tie against a team in a relegation battle. It's not good enough, the results aren't good enough, the performances aren't good enough. That's the way I see it. If you disagree and think its down to the players then fair enough. But I disagree strongly.
The manager is responsive to set up the tactical instructions. He's responsible for the zones each player has to occupy, he has to set the attacking mentality when we have the ball and the defensive when we are off the ball. The manager has to inspire confidence in the players. He's the one who has to make changes if things are not going good. Neither of those things I have seen today nor the whole season bar 1-2 games.
Our confidence is shot - not one player the whole team.
The tactics are awful we clearly have no idea how to create opportunities.
The team he put today was full of players that do not have match fitness or were regaining form.
The substitutes again were odd to say at least.
Did you see the players positioning as a defensive unit for Bardsley goal?
You make it out as regardless of what Moyes tells to the players or instructs them they are the one that should defend as a unit, attack as a unit, inspire their own confidence, retain the ball, get the ball back, create openings, try plan B if things are not working out, etc.
And if that is right then tell me one thing, what's the point of the manager then?
Agreed, it would be delusional to not be at least questioning at this point. I genuinely don't know what the best course of action is right now though. I think firing now or within the next couple of months would be chaotic, unless we somehow had Klopp ready to take over.
I saw it differently, Smalling looked very clumsy to me. watching again now on MUTV for my sins so I'll see soon enough.
What else would you call it? Experienced people can't get frustrated?
No doubt Smalling monumentally fecks up the clearance, but I don't think he fouled Fletcher in the aftermath; I think the Sunderland player jumps into him and in doing so knocks them both to the ground.
As to the second part of your post, why are you torturing yourself by watching it again, you madman?!
When Smalling pulled down Fletcher? Yeah, that looked a foul to me and if it's a foul then you probably have to say he stopped a goalscoring opportunity, so he should have gone. It was one of those challenges where he made it seem like his momentum brought him into Fletcher when the reality is that had he connected properly with his clearance Fletcher would have run past him untouched.
The look on his face when De Gea made the fumble...
Feel so bad for him.
Ouch. Poor bastard.
For all the doubts over his actual ability, I think it's fair to say he's been unlucky too. So much has gone wrong for him this season, even stuff that's out of his control.
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