Do you even know what you are talking about? You said we were playing the ball to the wings the entire game, as usual. I stated the clear fact that that was not true and Kagawa was passing down the middle. Now you want to change it to "it led to nothing?" Try following the conversation.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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Do you even know what you are talking about? You said we were playing the ball to the wings the entire game, as usual. I stated the clear fact that that was not true and Kagawa was passing down the middle. Now you want to change it to "it led to nothing?" Try following the conversation.
Rather, I'd say that the bulk of our players lack the imagination & daring to do much beyond the ol' British way of 'play it wide to the pacey/tricky guy'.
I really have to say that Phil Neville is getting off far too lightly here.
If we're looking solely for a gormless face to lay into...
If we're looking solely for a gormless face to lay into...
Was Charlton shaking his head tonight?
To be honest, I'm fed up with him now.
Its not so much the poor results but more the fact that I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel, even Moyes himself harps on about it 'being worse before it gets better'
I can take a long string of bad results and right off seasons....however I can't take this complete negative defeatist attitude.
If results we're going this bad but at least we had some fire or potential then you could say ok but this shit is terrible and it doesn't look like its getting better any time soon.
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Players are not performing at all so a lot of blame should go on them however its Moyes job to get them performing and he is not doing a good job at that.
Its not so much the poor results but more the fact that I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel, even Moyes himself harps on about it 'being worse before it gets better'
I can take a long string of bad results and right off seasons....however I can't take this complete negative defeatist attitude.
If results we're going this bad but at least we had some fire or potential then you could say ok but this shit is terrible and it doesn't look like its getting better any time soon.
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Players are not performing at all so a lot of blame should go on them however its Moyes job to get them performing and he is not doing a good job at that.
As does the manager. He was dead set on getting Baines so we could just pass it to him and let him lump ball after ball into the box for Fellaini to head down. He has no imagination.
Ok I take it back. 60 mins + injury time, so 65 mins not 75
Steve Round has an English losers face too, remember "Wally with the Brolly?" Guess who was his No.2.
I don't rate Moyes that highly but even I can see he is a tough man (just ask Zaha). If he genuinely thought that some players (well majority) couldn't be asked to play for United, would he pick them, would he heck?
The problem is the players just aren't up to it for a variety of different reasons.
The problem is the players just aren't up to it for a variety of different reasons.
All valid Liv but non are an excuse for some of the individual performances we're seeing.
First and foremost they have to have confidence in themselves, and a bit of pride and show a bit of bravery... we had probably one player who looked like that tonight.
Why did they do so last season, then? You know the stats, surely, they've been posted on here numerous times.
When do we stop defend the manager just for the sake of it, in spite of overwhelming evidence that he doesn't know what the feck he's doing? At what point will you say "David Moyes doesn't look like he's cut out for this job?
Time isn't the universal success factor some of you think it is. Neither is being Scottish. None of those things kan save Moyes from the fact that he's turned us into a poor man's Everton in half a season.
Disagree. I think the fans just want to see good football. If that means we're open and get taken out on the counter then so be it. But being timid and defensive isn't the United way. It's like how Tottenham got rid of AVB because he was also playing dull, defensive football. The crowd at Tottenham like at United demand exciting attacking football, if we lose to a better side then so be it, we'd gave it our all. It's a bit like that CL tie against Madrid all those years ago when Ronaldo got that hattrick, most of Old Trafford applauded him off the pitch and we applauded our team off the pitch as well.
I just want to see performance, we're not getting results playing this dire football so why not just say "to hell with it" lets play to our strengths, attacking football. I said it all along that I'd back Dave so no matter the results as long as our performances improved. You expect a rollercoaster season considering all the changes. But getting bad results while playing terrible football isn't good enough.
I didn't realize Kagawa came off before half time. Hyperbole indeed.
Where did I say that? I said it followed the same pattern and elaborated on it. Ie the same unadventurous shite. Slow and lacking in courage. Take your own advice.
Anybody else watch the game on a stream which had no analysis between extra time and penalties? They had the cameras down on the pitch with the sound on and it was very noticeable the difference between the two.
His "oh well, what can you do!" attitude during post match interviews is amazing. I'm bubbling with confidence just looking at the man! What a man! Thank you Fergie!
Well, maybe you're right. And if that is the case, he'll end up being fired & deservedly so.
Go watch the game. Kagawa was playing the ball down the middle, contrary to what you've said. You're wrong.
Apart from Smalling doing his level best to get himself sent off.. But yeah Evan's is a notable exception to all of this for most of the season.
We are only 6 points off fourth with 15 games to play. With Mata arriving and RVP and Rooney to come back I think we can push on and get it.
After 26 years of SAF in charge that isn't bad transition.
Have you missed the extra time or switched off at the 90th minute?
Are you following the conversation? I'm sure he didn't realise the game only lasted 90 minutes.
You mean the moment Fletcher jumped into him and knocked them both to the ground? The ref didn't give anything precisely because there was nothing to give.
Evras been gash this season
You're confusing my criticism of the players with a defence of Moyes.
Don't let us be fooled by De Gea's awful mistake. The fact that we had to defend for much of the second half and extra time has got to say something about the mentality of the team under Moyes. Some pundits such as Gary Neville have never criticised Moyes, instead saving their vitriol for the players. The responsibility lies with Moyes.
I have mixed feelings on this. The key to running a successful enterprise is making the right decisions at the rights time, not apply a formulaic rule such as 'stick with the manager' regardless of the situation. There's no managerial skill or business acumen in that.
If it turns out that the team keeps performing below expectations and you sack the manager after two years, then I'm sorry but you made the wrong decision and should have sacked him after 6 months if the signs were there. If he turns it around after a difficult start and performs well given time, then you made the right decision to stick with the manager.
The hard part is making the right decision. If we end up sacking Moyes sometime in the next year or two, then we can look back and say:
1. It was a mistake to appoint him in the first place
2. It was a mistake not to sack him after 6 months when he looked safely out of his depth
I don't get this "It's the managers fault" "IT's the players fault" like the 2 can't be to blame.
I question the commitment of some of the players but they aren't solely responsible, they do what they're told and are told how to play at the end of the day but the fact remains Moyes has underachieved. Say what you want about the team and I'd agree it's not brilliant but it should be a lot better than it is. We look toothless in attack (which isn't helped by no RVP and Rooney) and lack so much creativity.
What worries me the most about Moyes is he doesn't react until he really has to, if it's 0-0 at home he'd take it, we have to go 1-0 down before he decides to try and do something. That's not how it should be, he's had a lot of bad luck in fairness to him but you can't get away with that excuse forever, both the players and Moyes have got to put their hands up. Very few of the people at the club at the moment can say they're doing well in their job.
I question the commitment of some of the players but they aren't solely responsible, they do what they're told and are told how to play at the end of the day but the fact remains Moyes has underachieved. Say what you want about the team and I'd agree it's not brilliant but it should be a lot better than it is. We look toothless in attack (which isn't helped by no RVP and Rooney) and lack so much creativity.
What worries me the most about Moyes is he doesn't react until he really has to, if it's 0-0 at home he'd take it, we have to go 1-0 down before he decides to try and do something. That's not how it should be, he's had a lot of bad luck in fairness to him but you can't get away with that excuse forever, both the players and Moyes have got to put their hands up. Very few of the people at the club at the moment can say they're doing well in their job.
Fortune and McIlroy on MUTV also seem pretty dumbfounded at the performance of the players and the lack of any sort of desire. They're saying much the same as what I am... that beyond everything else players need to be brave and show a bit of pride... and they didn't tonight.
I didn't say he didn't play the ball down the middle. You lack basic comprehension skills. I've painted out twice exactly what I said. If you can't understand they I can help you no further.
But you didn't answer the main question: If it's the British cliché that's to blame for us playing unimaginitive football down the wing, why didn't we play nearly as one-dimensional football last season?I don't imagine players like Rooney, Welbeck or Cleverley enjoy or want to play that kind of football, nor do I think they lack ability to play in a different way.
Most worrying thing is we keep coming out and doing the same things every week. No back to basics or minor tactical changes or anything to suggest a change in mentality. Get us pressing and get us moving the ball forward with fluidity!
I am sure he most likely was. I was shaking mine.
I don't think anyone would do well with their 2 best players out for as long as Rooney and RVP have been out for. Take out Ozil and Cazorla, where would Arsenal be? Where would Liverpool be without Suarez and Sturridge out for as long as RVP and Rooney have been. We've been shite yes and worse then we should have been but once the players come back from injury, we'll get a lot better. The teams we've been putting out have resembled teams Sir Alex would have put out in carling cup games, not our strongest lineup.
I'm completely against Moyes and didn't want him in the first place and don't think he has it in him to manage a top team, but I'll admit he has been tremendously unlucky with all the injuries.
I'm completely against Moyes and didn't want him in the first place and don't think he has it in him to manage a top team, but I'll admit he has been tremendously unlucky with all the injuries.
Neville wont criticise Moyes, when his brother is in the coaching staff.
Just like he bottled it by refusing to criticise Joe Hart.
Vidic getting stupidly sent off. Evra getting caught out all season. Both are likely to leave at the end of the season.
Rio has seemingly retired already.
Rooney has played very well.. but he is apparently still looking for a move.
Nani has never looked bothered.
Apart from Carrick and van Persie, every senior squad member has a reason to not care. (Fletch joined in late). Add Valencia to the list but I don't think he can do much either way.
First we need to decide if Moyes is the man.. The club clearly feel he is.
Fergie talked about power and control.. Moyes needs it. Let him shape the squad how he wants. Get rid of the big names if that is what it takes. Get players in that will play for him.
Last thing we'd want to do is give players like Rooney more power
Rio has seemingly retired already.
Rooney has played very well.. but he is apparently still looking for a move.
Nani has never looked bothered.
Apart from Carrick and van Persie, every senior squad member has a reason to not care. (Fletch joined in late). Add Valencia to the list but I don't think he can do much either way.
First we need to decide if Moyes is the man.. The club clearly feel he is.
Fergie talked about power and control.. Moyes needs it. Let him shape the squad how he wants. Get rid of the big names if that is what it takes. Get players in that will play for him.
Last thing we'd want to do is give players like Rooney more power
Understandable. Time flies when we put such an exquisite performance at home
I blocked it out of my memory.
Me too. I bet he's thinking he's been transported back to 1970
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