Damn right. The starting lineup was as good as it got given the injuries. Performing is down to the players. They're playing for United, on thousands a week. They should be at 100% no matter who's sat on the bench.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
- Start date
- Status
Did we feck? The whole game followed the same pattern.
He is partly to blame, but most teams have someone on the pitch to drive team on, we have no leaders, they are all timid and look around at each other. There's no one to take the initiative.
Well Fergie rebuilt 4 or 5 times and we did have a couple of "transition" periods. The trouble this time is the change of management etc and key injuries. We didnt strengthen in some areas which is another factor nailing Moyes right now. So is it Moyes or is it the situation?, bit of both i think.
I dont think Fergie would have won the league again with this squad, I suspect he would have got us to 3rd place though. But then Fergie would have had a summer to have strengthened so we really dont know what would have happened.
So for me this is a mixture of Moyes, bad timing on the squad quality with respect to changing of a few faces and the injury issue with RVP and Rooney really hasnt helped. Just ugly right now and I think it will get worse even with Mata coming in. Im expecting 5th or 6th place. At the beginning I expected 4th and didnt think it would be this bad.
We had the chances to kill them off but Didn't take them. Rooney and RvP would have.
Chelsea sat back, waited and killed us with three goals. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't because our defense is currently not good enough.
At least Kagawa tried to play football on the deck. He gives us far more options and at least he keeps defenders on their toes and draws free kicks. Funnelling the ball out to the right wing has become old and makes it easy for teams, even "lesser" teams, to stop us. Poyet's no fool and it's no coincidence that our attacking threat diminished when Valencia came on.
Completely agree, there is no leadership on the pitch at the moment and too many players consistently shirk responsibility.
Its not even as if Moyes' system was anything odd or strange.. What are people criticising? It was a fine team to put out and more than good enough to beat Sunderland at Old Trafford.
Uh. You didn't see the passes Kagawa was making down the middle? Did you watch the first half?
If you want a psychological perspective the first place to start would be with personal responsibility.. asking whether conscious or not 'are you doing your own job to the very best of your ability'.. then you work from there. Blaming everything around you apart from your own performance is called denial.
What I'm saying is pretty straight forward, II don't think most of our players are doing their jobs to the best of their abilities.
Who carries the can for that? Long term the manager. In a one off game like tonight, for me it has to be the players.
We'll look better because they are class players. But we won't look good enough just like we haven't when Rooney and RVP when fit. We're just not as good as the sum of our parts, let alone better than that. That's the main failure.
Vidic's red card was the result of frustration that be attributed to how we've played. The mistakes we're making are a result of fear. We go into games afraid and it's the managers fault we're in that situation.
They'd have probably scored their penalties if nothing else.
He was asked before the game about his attacking lineup and whether we intended to go at them from the start and his response was "I've just picked a side that will hopefully win the game, the worst case scenario is a 1-0 win." Now if he's relaying that message to the players then no wonder they're holding on for 1-0 after the 60th minute mark, why is that even in his mind? We're at home to the second worst side in the Premier League, we should be thinking about smashing them from the off, not sneaking a win on away goals. I think he should get 18 months, and the chance to rebuild the squad, but it's very frustrating at the moment, there is absolutely no improvement week to week, our defenders continually make individual errors (De Gea tonight) and we rarely create chances from open play. Oh, and he still hasn't figured out that we look much more fluid as a side when Kagawa plays centrally.
Remember this conversation last May @paceme @Flandall Ragg ?
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/moyes-to-succeed-ferguson-anyone.74640/page-76#post-13432351
I was embarrassed with that "reprobate football" comment after calming down for a few hours, but Christ, each game watching United recently has gotten more and more tumescent. I was still confident we'd turn it around during December but we've deteriorated at a concerning rate again since then. Our mental state is completely shot to pieces and our football is, to put it kindly, shit on a stick.
Of course we'll continue on cheering the lads and Moyes on, but, as much as I abhor to admit it, they're making it more and more difficult to defend with each passing week. I've almost run out of excuses for him and the players at this stage. I'm genuinely not looking forward to work tomorrow and encountering those Blue feckers smirking at me.
I've never known a time like it in all my life supporting United. It feels utterly bizarre.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/moyes-to-succeed-ferguson-anyone.74640/page-76#post-13432351
I was embarrassed with that "reprobate football" comment after calming down for a few hours, but Christ, each game watching United recently has gotten more and more tumescent. I was still confident we'd turn it around during December but we've deteriorated at a concerning rate again since then. Our mental state is completely shot to pieces and our football is, to put it kindly, shit on a stick.
Of course we'll continue on cheering the lads and Moyes on, but, as much as I abhor to admit it, they're making it more and more difficult to defend with each passing week. I've almost run out of excuses for him and the players at this stage. I'm genuinely not looking forward to work tomorrow and encountering those Blue feckers smirking at me.
I've never known a time like it in all my life supporting United. It feels utterly bizarre.
If Hernandez and Welbeck had half the composure of last seasons RVP then tonight, like in so many games this season, would have seen us with a comfortable lead rather than holding on.
Well technically the manager has to take the blame for tactics and motivation of players which impacts all four points you've mentioned. I mean if it was a case of a few players underperforming and bringing the team down - then fair enough. But as many people who keep defending Moyes point out, all the players on show but Januzaj are to blame. That clearly shows the buck has to be with the ones higher up.
Three players look poor, they have a problem. An entire team looking poor, just about the whole squad having a sub par season, that's the manager.
It's been happening all season. That's the whole point, it's not a one off. So therefore as you already point out, long term = manager.
It's not a one-off game it's soon enough a whole fecking season!
And we're not showing any signs at all that promises that we'll get out of this mire.
I'm sorry, bullshit. Go read the threads from last year. We continually played without passion. This is just more of the same but without the greatest manager of all time to paste over the cracks.
And had we went all out and ended up losing by 3 you'd have a load of people saying we should have sat back.
As I've already said, sitting back after 100 mins and sitting back after 50 mins are obviously different.
In 120 minutes of football we had a few long range shots from Januzaj, one for Fletcher and the resulting Welbeck scramble and one for Hernandez. In 120 minutes of football. At Old Trafford. Against Sunderland. That isn't good enough.
Moyes hasn't won the respect of the entire dressing room as of yet in my opinion. They don't fear him like they did Ferguson.
You know what was fecking hilarious, that pass round the corner for the Hernandez was from Smalling wasn't it? What the feck man. It will really make a world of difference when RVP, Rooney and hopefully Mata come into the side.
So you believe that we don't have the quality to put a S'land team under pressure and keep the possession at OT and we have to sit on 1 -0 lead for 75 mins?
Carrick is not match fit, Fletcher is not 100% match fit, last time Kagawa played was 11 days ago. Solution - take Kagawa off...
Why didn't we attack and should let the other team dictate the tempo?
Sir Alex Ferguson said:
How quickly we all forget!
the manager and his team are responsible for being totally unprepared for penalties...
an awful lot of work needs to be done to rescue this season's debacle.....
if we are getting one or two quality players in the window, it would be a start...too late for this season imo....
....but
an awful lot of work needs to be done to rescue this season's debacle.....
if we are getting one or two quality players in the window, it would be a start...too late for this season imo....
....but
That led to? He played a couple of passes into Hernandez, one of which blazed against him as if Anderson had returned as a shape shifter. We still played the same slow, unadventurous shite we served up he rest of the game. That's why their keeper barely made a save.
Playing the ball wide is certainly Moyes' fault. Look at the way the team has played the entire season. The players aren't doing that just for fun. He played the same way at Everton.
Hyperbole. We didn't get pushed back until the second half, specifically when Kagawa came off.
We are a team heavily reliant on RVP and Rooney for goals, we get very few from anyone aside from them, this is true under both Fergie and Moyes. Currently we have only the support acts playing, they can only do so much. With Carrick sitting infront of a stable back 4 all season we'd have ground a few more points from the league but we'll never win convincingly without the Van Persie and Rooney. Mata is a step in the right direction
I ain't mad at either party, to be honest. It's not clear exactly what is wrong at the moment - only painfully obvious that we're in some kind of state. It's down to the manager, to the players, to the effect from losing Fergie - all these factors to a lesser and greater extent.
We need new blood, that is evident to me. And it's also evident that Moyes needs to look at certain tactical aspects. If he's worried about defensive solidity (and there are huge question marks over our defense as such, no question about it) he should go with an extra body in the middle of the park rather than opting for a "defensive winger" in the shape of Valencia. It doesn't work - he needs to be dropped now.
If we were sitting on top of the league and scoring for fun, David Moyes would be getting the credit for being a great manager.
So it has to work the other way too.
At the same time though, I do admire United's attitude in not sacking managers at the drop of a hat. Let's see what happens when we've got less injuries to worry about.
So it has to work the other way too.
At the same time though, I do admire United's attitude in not sacking managers at the drop of a hat. Let's see what happens when we've got less injuries to worry about.
I didn't mean play all out. I mean to be the dominant team and to keep possession against the mighty Sunderland at home. Not soaking up the pressure for 1 hour...
You do wonder if SAF could see it getting this bad though? we'll never know, I guess.
I'd wish people stop regurgerating that old crap.
1) Ferguson didn't inherit the reigning champions.
2) Ferguson flogged off the drinkers, built a youth structure and changed things around for the better of the club. It was quite a bit of work compared to what Moyes needed to do - which was, in short, keep the reigning champions competitive.
i'd say any player who turned up at OT today, to 80k screaming fans, desperate for their team to get to Wembley, and thought I can't be arsed, I don't like the manager should be fecked off out of the place as quickly as possible.
People were acting like screaming retards last season. The team was light years ahead of this garbage. When we were behind we actually pushed for goals.
- Status