Moyes So Far!

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Low on quality and confidence, this is what happens. Moyes is obviously partly to blame but, as we've said all season, our problems run deeper than that.

I don't think Moyes has lost the dressing room but, if poor results continue, it will happen. Most fans will remain patient and the board certainly will but there are no guarantees the players will keep faith.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Ok so what gameplan we since the second half? Soaking up the pressure because S'land with their whole team, worth as much as Kagawa and DDG, playing us off park at home turf? Or what counterattacking?
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There was no one retaining possession after Kagawa went off. We were then pushed back. Pretty simple. Welbeck and Hernandez looked like were wearing cement shoes. Adnan was exhausted. Valencia made the occasional run but no one was retaining possession, which led to us being pushed back.
 
If this continues when RVP, Rooney and (apparently) Mata are all in the side then he'll deserve the bullet.
 
alastair said:
The negativity must come from the management though. Under Ferguson that would never have happened.

It was quite frankly astonishing to watch United hang on for a 1-0 knowing that it would mean extra time. Sunderland were fortunate in how the goal came about but they more than deserved it.

I hope they're given credit though. I know Poyet isn't liked on this forum, but he has been an inspiration to one of the worst sides in the league. Even Altidore was useful when he came on.
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That's what happens when you sit on a 1-0 lead. Doesn't matter what club you are or how much better your players are. It's why it's absurd to sit on such a fine margin. It's just crazy, I can understand if you score with a few minutes before the end of the game. But for us to do it for so long, just mental.
 
The sooner Moyes goes the better. Dalglish 2.0.

The longer we stick with him the further into mid table obscurity we'll slip and playing terrible football while we do it.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
Why bother with a manager then? What do you think a manager even does? Come on man, it's been obvious since the moment he arrived that he's not cut out for the job.
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Whether or not Moyes is cut out for the job has nothing to do with our club captain deciding to get himself needlessly sent off, it has nothing to do Rafael doing his best to join him, or with Smalling doing likewise early tonight... thats nothing to do with coaching, nothing to do with tactics, its down to individual responsibilities. They're some examples, obviously you can go on and on.

First and foremost you pull on a jersey to represent yourself, the club and the supporters. I've never in my life sat in a dressing room and thought, I'm only going to put in 70% tonight because I don't like the manager.

The performance of some of the players tonight wasn't worth the shirt they have on, regardless of anything else. At the most basic levels they weren't good enough. Tonight was an opportunity to get to a final, in terms of getting a team up for it (and I don't think we looked up for it at all until they scored) if professional footballers can't be self motivated at the prospect of a cup final then they're best moved on.
 
He has failed to make any impact on this group of players - whether it be in game or training. The whole collective group has went backwards at a fast rate.

Hes got nothing during the game. Nothing.
 
Stack said:
I think we saw Fergie get the last out of some ageing players to win the title and that in reality we were a team in transition or about to go in to transition. Add in a new manager, new coaching setup, new executives and it was always going to be a tough year. I didnt think it would be as tough as this but add in injuries to our 2 best players who provided a massive backbone for last years title and right now its just really ugly.
Moyes should be able to get more out of this but its going to get worse before it gets better.
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Basically then, we've wasted four or five years when we should have been strengthening the team with quality players, and we've failed. A winning team would never be in transition if the right signings were made at the right time.
 
No questions about transfers in the presser... feck this I'm going to bed.

He has said we didn't play well.... who really cares beyond that.
 
We got outplayed by Sunderland at home. They deserved a result there. We saved ourselves with a lot of last ditch defending and the scoreline flattered us at 1-0. We've been outplayed at home by a lot of midtable and relegation fodder this season. I have no idea what the feck is going on in training. This is just woeful.
 
AlwaysRedwood said:
There was no one retaining possession after Kagawa went off. We were then pushed back. Pretty simple. Welbeck and Hernandez looked like were wearing cement shoes. Adnan was exhausted. Valencia made the occasional run but no one was retaining possession, which led to us being pushed back.
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Which is kinda obvious and is exactly my point. Who do you think can retain the ball more Cleverley/Giggs or Jones? Kagawa was tired as you say, however Carrick and Fletcher (both regaining match fitness) are ok to play 120 mins?
 
IrishLegend said:
The sooner Moyes goes the better. Dalglish 2.0.

The longer we stick with him the further into mid table obscurity we'll slip and playing terrible football while we do it.
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At least Kenny won trophies for the Scousers. Moyes hasn't a hope in Hell of winning anything.
 
IrishLegend said:
The sooner Moyes goes the better. Dalglish 2.0.

The longer we stick with him the further into mid table obscurity we'll slip and playing terrible football while we do it.
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He's not Dalglish. Most Liverpool supporters wanted him to stay and he's the greatest man to play for our club. He's more like Hodgson, but even then, completely different circumstances.
 
AlwaysRedwood said:
There was no one retaining possession after Kagawa went off. We were then pushed back. Pretty simple. Welbeck and Hernandez looked like were wearing cement shoes. Adnan was exhausted. Valencia made the occasional run but no one was retaining possession, which led to us being pushed back.
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Plus this fecking obsession with passing to Valencia on the right to sling in a cross (when he can manage it) to a non-existent centre forward. I wouldn't mind if we had a big strong bugger wearing the number 9 but we don't. Our biggest aerial threat comes from Paddy Evra.
 
acnumber9 said:
It's not luck when it happens all the time. Sit back on a lead and you can't be surprised when it blows up in your face.
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I'm gutted and the manager has made mistakes but It's not Moyes fault his keeper fumbles their only shot on target all night. Everything that can go wrong is.

Smalling and Evans were excellent. We limited them to set pieces. Hernandez had a perfect chance to make it two nil and it's all over. We had the adnan chance as well when Jones burst forward. Shocking that we didn't take our chances again and killed them off.

Get RvP and Rooney back, with Mata and things will improve.
 
Sunday league players could take better penalties. However, United should have won comfortably in normal time. Another inept performance, lacking any urgency or skill. Players confidence looks shattered.
 
I know we've got injuries, but what's worrying is that 'lesser' teams, with 'lesser' players, are performing better than us.
 
Moyes is an average manager who makes average teams. He took an underperforming Everton and made them average. He has made us average team is months. We will have above average moments but in the end average
 
Livvie said:
Basically then, we've wasted four or five years when we should have been strengthening the team with quality players, and we've failed. A winning team would never be in transition if the right signings were made at the right time.
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I hate the word transition, I see it as an easy excuse, a get out of jail free card if you like.
 
It isn't Moyes who is:

*Too timid to pass or drive forward
*Scared to death of having to beat an opponent for skill
*Looking to lay-off the ball & so avoid responsibility
*Getting the ball wide, time & again, and failing to create chances

How can any manager, let alone David Moyes, turn incompetence and timidity into skills and courage? This isn't about Moyes or Mourinho or Martinez or whoever; chiefly, the British core we're so proud of have a traditionally-British lack of flair, and trust in flair.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Which is kinda obvious and is exactly my point. Who do you think can retain the ball more Cleverley/Giggs or Jones? Kagawa was tired as you say, however Carrick and Fletcher (both regaining match fitness) are ok to play 120 mins?
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Giggs is old and can't defend well. You don't bring him on when the other team will be attacking. Cleverly is useless. Fletcher is the only leader on the entire team. We don't take off Carrick because he's our best CM.
 
Eyepopper said:
Whether or not Moyes is cut out for the job has nothing to do with our club captain deciding to get himself needlessly sent off, it has nothing to do Rafael doing his best to join him, or with Smalling doing likewise early tonight... thats nothing to do with coaching, nothing to do with tactics, its down to individual responsibilities. They're some examples, obviously you can go on and on.

First and foremost you pull on a jersey to represent yourself, the club and the supporters. I've never in my life sat in a dressing room and thought, I'm only going to put in 70% tonight because I don't like the manager.

The performance of some of the players tonight wasn't worth the shirt they have on, regardless of anything else. At the most basic levels they weren't good enough. Tonight was an opportunity to get to a final, in terms of getting a team up for it (and I don't think we looked up for it at all until they scored) if professional footballers can't be self motivated at the prospect of a cup final then they're best moved on.
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That's just not how human psychology works. It isn't the players making a conscious choice to be shit, it's that they look at the manager, realise it's David Moyes and all belief drains from their body. I get the same feeling when I look at his gormless face.
 
Sam said:
But we didn't just do it in extra time, we we're doing from half time onwards, against the worst team in the league. No I'm not gaving that. It was pathetic.
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Yep, I said it at the time. Look good for 20 mins, score and sit back.. That said 'sit back' doesn't mean 'retreat withing yourself and abandon any prior responsibilities'
 
Eyepopper said:
Any player, pulling a Utd shirt for a semi at OT, needs to have a level of pride and determination that just doesn't look to be there with some of them. Moyes has to carry the can for some of it but regardless of who the manager was or what the system or tactics were tonight I felt the majority of the players let the club and the supporters down.

Funny that as soon as Sunderlands goal went in the players were able to inject a bit of urgency and find a goal straight away... and that had absolutely feck all to do with Moyes.
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I don't think anyone is looking to absolve the players of blame here Pops. They should absolutely shoulder a large portion but, as I said, the buck stops with the manager. If it was all down to the players then clubs wouldn't spend so much money on the very best managers. It's their job to get the best out of the players. Moyes is showing that he isn't capable of that.

I'm not saying #MoyesOut yet, but I'm probably not far away.
 
Thisistheone said:
I'm gutted and the manager has made mistakes but It's not Moyes fault his keeper fumbles their only shot on target all night. Everything that can go wrong is.

Smalling and Evans were excellent. We limited them to set pieces. Hernandez had a perfect chance to make it two nil and it's all over. We had the adnan chance as well when Jones burst forward. Shocking that we didn't take our chances again and killed them off.

Get RvP and Rooney back, with Mata and things will improve.
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No, it's not his fault that happened, but you did feel a goal was coming for Sunderland. They looked like the fecking home team near the end.
 
Moriarty said:
Plus this fecking obsession with passing to Valencia on the right to sling in a cross (when he can manage it) to a non-existent centre forward. I wouldn't mind if we had a big strong bugger wearing the number 9 but we don't. Our biggest aerial threat comes from Paddy Evra.
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We looked a decent team in the first half without Valencia on the pitch. Once he comes on, it's back to the same old shit.
 
ArmchairCritic said:
Nope, everyone seems to have given up now, bit pathetic to be honest.
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I am completely pissed with the players, but as you say like most others I am almost past caring. In the press conference he is starting to look like a gibbering wreck. I almost hope they put him out of his misery.
 
Livvie said:
I know we've got injuries, but what's worrying is that 'lesser' teams, with 'lesser' players, are performing better than us.
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This is what worries me, we've been outplayed by Sunderland twice now, in fact I don't think we've outplayed any league team this season.
It's not 100% Moyes fault but he has to shoulder the blame, he looks a beaten man.
 
Thisistheone said:
I'm gutted and the manager has made mistakes but It's not Moyes fault his keeper fumbles their only shot on target all night. Everything that can go wrong is.

Smalling and Evans were excellent. We limited them to set pieces. Hernandez had a perfect chance to make it two nil and it's all over. We had the adnan chance as well when Jones burst forward. Shocking that we didn't take our chances again and killed them off.

Get RvP and Rooney back, with Mata and things will improve.
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No it's not but what is his fault is that we played ourselves into a situation where one mistake could knock us out. Go and attack the game in 90 minutes and you increase the chances that a solitary mistake can cost you.
 
People can harp on about it not being the managers fault the players looked so poor and looked like they were clinging on, but they took it to the corner to time waste with six minutes to go.

Who, other than the manager, could possibly give an instruction like that?

Tonight was horrible, both by the players AND manager, not one or the other, both.
 
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