Have to laugh at Moyes declaring our title race as not over while his captain confirms we're playing for third or fourth at best.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
- Start date
- Status
Probably. There were other relevant criteria though, none of which Moyes met. Attractive style of football? Nope? Champions League credentials? Nope. Massively overachieved with his sides i.e. finished 2nd in the league, took them to CL latter stages? Nope. Proven competence managing a big club i.e. finishing with 96 points? Nope.
And then you'll start to see why Pellegrini would actually have made an ounce of sense.
He had a team of superstars, not Everton. Yet still won feck all with them.
Of course the answer to both is no. If Mourinho was in charge we'd certainly be doing better, probably around 4th. Obviously Moyes would never have been given the Chelsea or Citu jobs either. Both of those are quite obvious.
Not sure what your point is though. I don't think many doubted Mourinho would do a good job here in the short term, it was his long term influence that worried people. Besides, I don't think anyone is absolving Moyes of all blame when they say the squad is weak. They're really pointing out that nobody was going to challenge for the league with this squad, and they're right. That doesn't mean Moyes couldn't be doing better though.
We knew when we appointed Moyes that no other top club would've picked him, we only did it because SAF recommended him. At the time though few people were saying we should ignore SAF's opinion and appoint whoever the Glazers felt was best.
Rarely, because we rarely put in an actual good performance in those games. Maybe 10/11 at the Bridge where Atkinson screwed us, but we lost very narrowly. How many times did we lose that comfortably, playing well?
I say 'playing well' like I accept that as an accurate description of our performance yesterday. We had a good 10 minutes, then we weren't terrible. We have continued Fergie's tradition of having very low standards for what we consider a good performance, I see. Fergie was convinced we played well every year at Liverpool during our most recent 4 year losing streak when in reality we were quite shit in all of those games.
Did he really say that? Wow!
I think that's DM's impersonation of a tough, determined manager talking tough and determined.
Lets be fair to him, he was up against the same Barca team that beat us in two UCL finals and even then he gave a really good account of himself.
Ermm...Just 2 days back, Vidic had to say this: http://www.manutd.com/en/news-and-f...c-says-a-title-triumph-is-still-possible.aspx
Granted we've lost a game in the meanwhile but contrasting what the 2 have said so recently is an overreaction.
And yet when Moyes is handed the reigns at a big team for one single season he drags them down to 7th with tumescent football. Kind of puts in perspective what I mean when I said competence managing a big club... We could've done with someone who'd demonstrated that, and we can see how City are reaping the rewards in comparison to ourselves..
Just a little perspective, for those calling for Moyes's head
This depends on the situation. There are 3 cases from my understanding.
A. The two clubs can agree on a fee.
B. United could have tried to go through La Liga to pay the release clause there is an additional payment involved. I think this is where the 36m figure comes.
C. Give Herrera the money to buy out his release clause and face more payments (i.e. IVA tax) which bring us to the 45m figure.
Either way we entered negotiations way too late if we valued him so low
Just a little perspective, for those calling for Moyes's head
did you read the fine print?
Moyes will still think we've got a chance when we're 20points off top with 7 games left.
Just a little perspective, for those calling for Moyes's head
The article itself argues against the headline
I really wish people would stop bringing this up;Just a little perspective, for those calling for Moyes's head
A) it was a different time
B) SAF had won something and shown he was a winner before he took over
It's a reader's letter sent in and answered by Greavsie (presumably)
No manager would ever get the sack if clubs had the attitude our manager might go on to do what Sir Alex Ferguson did if we give them 5-6 years. I think the odds are much more on the side that Moyes is not the next Alex Ferguson.
No one's asking for Moyes to be given 5 years. The very least he should be given is this summer to sort the team out
The 10% reduction of play in the final third is probably a partial explanation for the lack of late goals. When behind or drawing, you could count on United to apply sustained pressure for the last 10-15 minutes of the match under Fergie. Spurs is the only game I can remember that happening under Moyes. Instead, we are more often in our own half defending, which is more common by far throughout the match under Moyes.
We played higher up the pitch and far more centrally last season and more effectively. There's also the predictability of Moyes that means the opposing teams know what United will do going forward. It's down to Moyes "tactics" far more than it is the players.
Fergie:
Moyes:
Cmon mate. These are two completely different sitautions we're talking about. How much time do we give him? 3 years?
Even then Fergie came with a much better track record than Moyes has currently. What has Moyes done to deserve that time? Fergie was getting a lot of criticism back then but what he was being tasked to do just doesnt really compare to what Moyes is being tasked to do.
Lets be honest, there is no way Moyes is going to get 6 years like Fergie, just because he has a 6 year contract in hand. For some reason or the other people think that Moyes is definitely going to last 6 years. He will be given a reasonable amount of time and i cant see him being touched at least until Christmas this year.
Just a little perspective, for those calling for Moyes's head
So a fan letter that is then rebutted by the paper. Nice.
Also, Fergie was a winner and had accomplished more in his 12 years before coming to United than David Moyes had in 15. Look at what Fergie did with Aberdeen versus what Moyes did with Everton. Nothing Moyes has accomplished hints that he will go on to be a great manager.
And rightly deserved considering the fact that he is doing a terrible job so far.
Again, you're focusing on hard-skills. You're not understanding that the current problem with our players and staff isn't in the feet, it's in the brain. It's a mental thing. Players, staff, fans... we are humans. We don't operate like machines, we don't perform consistently.
The club has effectively lost it's leader. You have to remember Ferguson controlled every single aspect of the club, from a high level. You need to appreciate what impact that has on the running of a club. And you need to understand the impact that has on a player.
They must have chosen him for a reason. I don't buy into that whole Scottish thing, Ferguson is too intelligent for that, he saw something in Moyes, that convinced him he's the right man for the job.
Not buying serious quality in the summer didn't help, either. Sometimes you have to overpay to get what you want. The club had the money, but your new executive isn't up to the task, it seems.
The other flaw in the comparison is that Greaves mentions players that were bought but who didn't do the shirt justice. Every player at Moyes's disposal has won things with the club, well apart from Fellani. There is probably only Ashley Young in the first team squad regular who you could say has never earned his stripes. Kagawa at a push but he has only been with us for 18 months. 6 of those have been Moyes months too.
You're gleaning that from the above post? What skills was i focusing on anyway?
I agree that we chose him for a reason but I get a little annoyed when people try and compare it to when Ferguson was appointed as if the situations are similar. You can draw parallels in just about any situation but doing so out of context doesnt really help imo.
I appreciate you posting that in an effort to show perspective but it doesnt necessarily follow that it should be a reason for why we give Moyes more time. I'm willing to give him til next January. If it stays as is, then I think he should be let go. If he improves, then I think it warrants him being given more time.
I think answering how much time a manager should be given isn't easy. It's not just a stamp of "you get 3 years! because every manager should get that length of time". You have targets, goals, expectations and performance measures. That way at some point you can draw the line.
Why do they give a prize to a letter in which they refute the major point made? Was it a contest of "worst letter of the week"?
west brom
I'm not sure what to read into that. Carrick isn't ruling it out either.
Probably reflects worse on Vidic. Would Fergie have given up? Would he feck.
Game.Set.Match.
I disagree. I don't think it was a plucky little performance at all. We didn't have enough which is obvious but performances like that will have a completely different complexion when we have our best players and most clinical finishers back, not to mention the three or four top quality additions that Moyes wants to bring in. I'm optimistic. I think there's something to build on.
If they can't get the ball no we wouldn't. Does having them both magically make Valencia cross the ball to them better?
Rooney has been one of our best players this season. How has he achieved that if he never had the ball?
Even yesterday, the amount of times Januzaj put that ball into dangerous areas would have been easy pickings for either of them two.
The 10% reduction of play in the final third is probably a partial explanation for the lack of late goals. When behind or drawing, you could count on United to apply sustained pressure for the last 10-15 minutes of the match under Fergie. Spurs is the only game I can remember that happening under Moyes. Instead, we are more often in our own half defending, which is more common by far throughout the match under Moyes.
We played higher up the pitch and far more centrally last season and more effectively. There's also the predictability of Moyes that means the opposing teams know what United will do going forward. It's down to Moyes "tactics" far more than it is the players.
Fergie:
Moyes:
Is that red spot in the middle on Moye's tactics, from us kicking off after conceeding all the time, which in itself says alot? Because its a little hard to believe that the dot fits perfectly on the centre spot otherwise
Insane stat that Man United have same amount of points and same goal difference after 22 games as Everton at this stage last season
Bingo. We cannot go under assumption that any manager will come good given time, it's wrong.
- Status