Moyes So Far!

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Chesterlestreet said:
I keep coming back to the same thing every time I consider such questions: 4-3-3. Some kind of 4-3-3. Drop the (traditional) wingers - who aren't performing anyway.
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I wouldn't be averse to that in the least, indeed we should have attempted either it or the more defensive 4-5-1 weeks if not months ago.The status quo is all so counterintuitive, why persist with a system which seemingly only highlights the flaws in the squad time after time?
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Aye. I'm worried about this too. To me this is the key: He needs to get players in and at least some of these players are bound to be, well, bloody expensive. Without full backing from the owners he's facing an impossible task, really.
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Yep which leads to potential event of him getting sacking and none of us really knowing if he was the right man for us. It would be easy to say he wasnt because we didnt meet the required targets. However we'd never know if he was capable of changing it around
 
Gladiator said:
Yep which leads to potential event of him getting sacking and none of us really knowing if he was the right man for us. It would be easy to say he wasnt because we didnt meet the required targets. However we'd never know if he was capable of changing it around
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I think we will know because the new manager will have problems with the squad and then people will have to face reality.
 
Seems funny now given the last 3 games, but its for December. Still I think Pele or Jose will get it, both had tougher games, but then we did serve up that Emirates shitfest.
 
ItsEssexRob said:
Seems funny now given the last 3 games, but its for December. Still I think Pele or Jose will get it, both had tougher games, but then we did serve up that Emirates shitfest.
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Pele? Pele? Pele?

my brain refuses to process that
 
I'd love to know how accurate the information in this article is, the images were being shared on Twitter:
MANCHESTER UNITED
Goodman: Manchester United are a team in trouble. The interesting question is why. Offensively the team has clearly changed how it attacks, concentrating much more heavily on the wings, going from this in 2012-13 ...

To this in 2013-14 ...

Incidentally, that's more or less the polar opposite of what's happened at David Moyes's former club Everton. This isn't to say that a change in strategy can't work, but it certainly hasn't so far. Moyes inherited a team sorely lacking in both central midfield and wing talent. Last season's Manchester United team won the league despite a very mediocre underlying TSR. It seems like some combination of Sir Alex Ferguson magic and an abnormally healthy Robin van Persie were largely responsible for that success. If United don't improve their talent pool this month, they will likely miss out on the Champions League for the first time in its history (at least in the current incarnation).
Ryan:It's almost like Ferguson was a great cinematographer, and when he left Manchester United, he took all his special lenses and filters with him, and now we see the team for what they are: above-average. The curtain has been pulled back and there stands Tom Cleverley where Paul Scholes once stood. United aren't awful, but they don't do anything particularly well. Incidentally, wouldn't it be amazing if the greatest trick Wenger ever pulled was to sell van Persie to the (Red) Devil(s) with only six more months left on his clock? Getting into the Champions League next season depends almost entirely on the Dutchman's mystery groin issue.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/10263071/midseason-premier-league-report-card
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and something similar in another article...
There’s a larger issue here with United’s attack. Below are heat maps showing the locations from where passes into the final third of play originate. First look at last season:

Now look at this season:

They are fairly similar, except for the center of the field. There are fewer balls being played from there this season. This isn’t an accident. One of the hallmarks of Moyes’s approach during his 11-year reign at Everton was the emphasis placed on overloading the flanks, while using the center of the field mostly as a hub to transition from one side to the other. It seems to be the same plan he is instituting at United. In order to make those overloads work, it becomes the responsibility of whoever is playing off the striker to drift out toward the edges to help create the numerical advantage. This appears to be a lot of what Rooney is doing this season. If we compare heat maps of where he’s receiving the ball when it’s passed to him in the final third, it appears he is getting more touches on the wing and fewer in the center this season.


This approach made sense at Everton, where Moyes was on a limited budget. You know what costs a lot of money? Strikers, advanced creative playmakers, and incisive, deep-lying playmakers. Moyes minimized those roles, out of necessity. Strikers are largely isolated up front and basically tasked with making themselves available to provide a finishing touch, while the traditional advanced creative player instead becomes something of a roving extra body. Rather than create with the ball at his feet, he moves toward the side to help a winger and fullback numerically overwhelm their counterparts, and the deep-lying central midfielder's responsibility is, primarily, to swing the ball from side to side. The midfield band of four is primarily anchored to their positions to maintain defensive positioning should the ball be lost.
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/79473/whats-the-matter-with-manchester-united
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I've no idea if they're accurate, but it seems frighteningly similar to what we're seeing on the pitch.
 
100 said:
I'd love to know how accurate the information in this article is, the images were being shared on Twitter:

and something similar in another article...

I've no idea if they're accurate, but it seems frighteningly similar to what we're seeing on the pitch.
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It's certainly interesting, particularly compared to last season. Gut feeling watching the game, says "too dependant on Valencia, who isn't even playing well," but many people felt it was just a continuation of last season's approach. If those maps are accurate, then it is a continuation, but pushed to a non-functional extreme.
 
It's worth pointing out that they are comparing a 38 game heat map to a 20 game heat map.

If it was a graph we'd be laughing at how skewered the statistics are.
 
I thought this was really good article by Miguel Delaney:

Moyes must throw off shackles to be a success


Sir Alex Ferguson urged the fans to stick with David Moyes when he retired.
They're words that now seem unintentionally ironic, that can be layered with a darker twist.

In October 2012, seven months before Sir Alex Ferguson actually retired, the then-Manchester United vice-chairman Ed Woodward described the club's succession plan with utter confidence: "We have a view as to what that process will look like in terms of finding a replacement and what type of manager we want and how and when we'll go about it."

It's probably fair to say no-one expected it to look quite like this, especially so soon after Ferguson's retirement. That is perhaps the most galling aspect of all for United. Despite all the forewarning from Matt Busby's initial departure in 1969, all the long-term concerns that should have conditioned the club, not to mention former chief executive David Gill repeatedly insisting the club would be "ready" and "there won't be meltdown," their worst fears are being realised. It realistically couldn't have gone much worse.

The most feared team in England have become, as one first-team player is believed to have put it in a team meeting, a "laughing stock."

Of course, it would be incorrect and hugely unfair to put all of this at the feet of David Moyes. Even leaving aside all the relevant questions about the state of the squad the 50-year-old inherited, not to mention the transfer situation, a seismic event like the retirement of the most important figure in the club's history was always going to send huge destabilising ripples around Old Trafford and Carrington. As Gill said in 2011, it would "clearly be a sea change." Everyone at the club was going to have to adjust, and the nature of such momentous transformations is that some would inevitably do so poorly.

That, however, was exactly why a manager with Moyes' incomplete CV was the wrong choice in the summer of 2013.

There are so many other uncertainties around United right now that there was no need for the board to exacerbate them by adding another. As it was always going to influence events on the pitch, and undeniably affect results, the English champions needed a manager whose every decision is at least backed by brilliant success. That way, even if United did suffer such poor results, there would still be the guarantee that the manager had proven himself at the top level.

That, for all his own admirable qualities, is not the case with Moyes. There is no evidence he has the qualities to turn the situation around at this level of the game, a situation too turbulent to be learning on the job. It's the kind of thing that matters to top players, especially those that have won so much. Although it may be something psychological, it ends up having a tangible effect because every mistake leads to more questions, an erosion of confidence, and more dropped points.

It is unlikely to have happened under someone like Jose Mourinho or Pep Guardiola -- bona fide world-class managers that a world-class club should be appointing.

On the day after Ferguson's retirement became public, the United squad was at Chester races discussing his replacement. Almost to a man, they wanted Mourinho. That, for all the external perceptions, is the genuine effect he has within the game. Those who run the show at United may have been worried by Mourinho's style and image, but all that matters to the players is that he is a proven winner.
The United board are known to have ultimately passed over the Portuguese because they feared the "instability" he would have caused without Gill to keep him in check, but they would probably swap it for what they have now. If you are winning, everything else can be weathered. Mourinho, for all his other issues, and Guardiola are the closest to a sure thing in management beyond Ferguson.

If the Portuguese causes ructions, he at least ensures the sturdiest baseline in terms of results. That is why it might have been more prudent for United to try and initially just stay on course with a coach of that standing, and after that go for a longer-term choice.

In so consciously trying to replace absolutely every aspect of Ferguson straight away, they may have overreached. The main issue now is whether Moyes has overreached too. If the decision is now in the past, and the present is so uncertain, the key question for the future is why exactly his CV is incomplete? Why, for all Moyes' respectable feats, did he never have that big success that makes a manager in the manner of Mourinho at FC Porto or Ferguson himself at Aberdeen?

One theory is this. Ultimately, when you break it right down, managers can be divided into two broad groups. There are those that accept a team's given limits and work within them; then there are those who refuse those limits and always look to push them.

Ferguson was undisputedly one of the latter, as is Moyes' replacement at Everton, Roberto Martinez. Whereas the Spaniard commonly speaks about breaking boundaries and accepting no excuses, the United manager has notoriously talked about trying to just make life difficult for visiting sides. That contrast could also be seen in the abrasive way Martinez won the FA Cup with Wigan, and -- most strikingly -- the assertive football he has attempted to play at Everton regardless of their opponents. Their performance at Arsenal was one of the most eye-catching this season as it was so unexpected by many.

The crux is that, to win the biggest rewards, you usually need to roll the dice; to be brave. This was something Ferguson preached and regularly practiced. Moyes has never really done so. If his football is not overtly defensively, it has always involved a somewhat rigid template: to claim possession and ultimately work the ball out to the flanks. There have of course been variations and other intricacies, but the broader trend has remained.

That is perfectly fine up to a point. It is a point, however, that a global super-club like Manchester United have long since passed.

When the expectation is that you win every game, as opposed to just secure a safe footing, you need to have more variety, more creativity, more angles of attack, less predictability.
As it stands, it is not outlandish to say Moyes' entire managerial career reflects his approach to the game. Just as his football has brought eminently respectable results but also that infamously poor away record against the best, he has taken teams to certain levels but no higher. He has never had that true breakthrough a bit more bravery and creativity might bring. There has always been a limit, a glass ceiling.

His one fourth-place finish ended in defeat in the Champions League qualifiers; his one FA Cup final ended with a lead being overturned. On both occasions, excuses were made about the quality of opposition -- Villarreal in 2005, Chelsea in 2009 -- but the point is that world-class managers eventually have to rise to such levels.

At present, we are seeing football with limits at one of the few clubs in the world where there should be no limits. The growing question, as the situation gets more extreme, is whether Moyes will eventually rise to United's level or bring the club to his.

It is entirely possible he will evolve as a manager, and may well be in the process of doing so now. This could all prove an immensely valuable -- if an atrociously laborious -- learning curve. The signing of that key midfielder may well give him the different option in attack he wants and completely recalibrate the team. That may bring the right run, restore confidence, and see things suddenly swing.

There should be no disputing Moyes' resilience and integrity. It is impossible to think he won't improve, the key is by how much. http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/espnfcunited/id/11558?cc=5739
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And some quotes from Willie Morgan:

"I don't think Moyes was the right man," said Morgan.
"He has bought Marouane Fellaini for £27.5million and given Nani a new five-year contract when they have been trying to sell him for ages.
On Moyes, I rest my case. What credentials did he have to take over the biggest club in the world?
But I have nothing against him. I hope he is successful. But I just don't see it. Not with the players he has got.
United might have won the league by 11 points last year but Moyes inherited the weakest squad we have had for a long, long time.
If Robin van Persie had not been in the team last year they would have finished halfway up the league.
He was the difference and now Van Persie is injured."
I joined a great team but after Matt retired, it broke up very quickly," said Morgan.
The players Wilf McGuinness brought in were nice lads but talent wise, they were dreadful. The problem is once you get into that cycle it is very difficult to get out of it.
We said when Moyes was appointed it was the beginning of the end and sadly, I fear they will struggle for the next few years now."

"I do feel I wasted myself at Manchester United, they were hard years. But I never thought about baling out. I loved Manchester United. I loved the supporters. They were unbelievable, even when we were struggling. They are still the same now. I would have done anything for them."
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LR7 said:
I thought this was really good article by Miguel Delaney:
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Hes absolutely right. Ive said it since the summer - opinions aside about his abilities as a manager - appointing him at Utd was a needless risk. The club had plenty of time to get this right and they made the same mistake they made 40 years ago with Sir Matt.

I did not expect the glazers to risk their cash cow with an inexperienced manager and fully expected them to appoint a more proven manager. What's important now is their patience.

For all the public backing Moyes is getting, even Sir Bobby will be questioning if this is too high a jump for Moyes. Hes most definitely, rightly or wrongly, on a shaky peg right now. Couple more losses at OT and i can see his tenure coming to an end.
 
100 said:
I'd love to know how accurate the information in this article is, the images were being shared on Twitter:

and something similar in another article...

I've no idea if they're accurate, but it seems frighteningly similar to what we're seeing on the pitch.
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Moyes' football is too defensevely as well
We play like everton last season
 
"On the day after Ferguson's retirement became public, the United squad was at Chester races discussing his replacement. Almost to a man, they wanted Mourinho."

If this is true I will consider fuming. Were they not asked? Is asking the players normal when appointing a new manager, I don't know, it should be though.
 
LR7 said:
I thought this was really good article by Miguel Delaney:
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Very good article, agree with most of it, unfortunately not holding my breath regarding the 2nd last paragraph.

If it's true the players wanted to Mourinho too. :(
 
Floyd said:
"On the day after Ferguson's retirement became public, the United squad was at Chester races discussing his replacement. Almost to a man, they wanted Mourinho."

If this is true I will consider fuming. Were they not asked? Is asking the players normal when appointing a new manager, I don't know, it should be though.
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:lol:
 
LonelyFire said:
Hes absolutely right. Ive said it since the summer - opinions aside about his abilities as a manager - appointing him at Utd was a needless risk. The club had plenty of time to get this right and they made the same mistake they made 40 years ago with Sir Matt.

I did not expect the glazers to risk their cash cow with an inexperienced manager and fully expected them to appoint a more proven manager. What's important now is their patience.

For all the public backing Moyes is getting, even Sir Bobby will be questioning if this is too high a jump for Moyes. Hes most definitely, rightly or wrongly, on a shaky peg right now. Couple more losses at OT and i can see his tenure coming to an end.
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Yeah the way we have approached this is almost like we had given it very little thought. I've googled previous quotes from David Gill and things like this were said:
"There won't be meltdown. It will clearly be a sea change for the club and we have to be ready."
He will be in charge of appointing the successor, although Ferguson will also be heavily involved. "I will co-ordinate the process, but, clearly, I will take great store in what he [Ferguson] says and what other key people at the club say. The owners will clearly have a view. All these things will come together. It would be a collective body, not a big body, but we would get all the input to make sure we make the appropriate choice."
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"Obviously at some stage Alex will retire, whenever that may be. What we're doing with him, with his coaches and scouts, is getting a great squad with the right age profile so that a new manager coming in – yes, he will probably want to change one or two players, that's always the way, or two or three – but he won't need to make wholesale changes. They'll be a sensible transition to the new manager. So that's where we're at. As I say, it's not something we worry about. We worry about other things but we don't worry about that."
Gill also revealed the club will seek an experienced candidate to replace Ferguson whenever the time comes to make their first managerial appointment since November 1986. "I tend to agree with that," he said of the need for experience. "It's obviously crucial that the main person at any football club or an NFL team I suppose, is the coach. What happens on the pitch is crucial to all of our off-the-field aspirations and we have to understand that. So someone coming in to take over Manchester United will have to have that pedigree, will have to have that logical success and achievement because it's such a big club.
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It seems like few of these things were adhered to in the appointment of Moyes.
 
I think the easy way to understand those graphics above is that with RVP playing less of a role, Rooney is more of the main man up front and with the goals, coming from being in better goalscoring positions. And as such we've suffered without him linking the midfield and attack as much.
 
LR7 said:
Yeah the way we have approached this is almost like we had given it very little thought. I've googled previous quotes from David Gill and things like this were said:



It seems like few of these things were adhered to in the appointment of Moyes.
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Gill spoke about someone with European experience previously. Seems that wasnt too high on the list of priorities.

I do wonder if Gill leaving affected our decision on Mourinho.
 
LonelyFire said:
Gill spoke about someone with European experience previously. Seems that wasnt too high on the list of priorities.

I do wonder if Gill leaving affected our decision on Mourinho.
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I remember reading that he was keen on Mourinho but SAF and Sir Bobby weren't. Him leaving must have affected him "co-ordinating the process" as he said above since he wouldnt be overseeing things and directly working with the incoming manager. He also said: "So someone coming in to take over Manchester United will have to have that pedigree, will have to have that logical success and achievement because it's such a big club" - as admirable as Moyes' achievements were at Everton for me he falls short of the required pedigree, success and achievement needed to manage United. One thing I've always thought is back in '86 (I wasn't even born!) when Fergie got the job, he would never have got it if he had David Moyes' CV. He was a proven winner and had both domestic and European titles to his name, those standards should have been upheld imo.
 
Floyd said:
"On the day after Ferguson's retirement became public, the United squad was at Chester races discussing his replacement. Almost to a man, they wanted Mourinho."

If this is true I will consider fuming. Were they not asked? Is asking the players normal when appointing a new manager, I don't know, it should be though.
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Fergie said they asked Giggs and Scholes about the RvP signing, but I can't see the players having any input on the incoming manager tbh. I don't think that will happen at any club really. There was a big thing in Spain a few months ago because they thought Martino was appointed because of Messi telling the board to, but I'm pretty sure he came out and denied it.
 
Floyd said:
Glad I could amuse you.
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People have been criticizing the fact that Fergie had any input at all into appointing Moyes. You are advocating taking the players opinion into account.

Highly amusing indeed.
 
LR7 said:
I remember reading that he was keen on Mourinho but SAF and Sir Bobby weren't. Him leaving must have affected him "co-ordinating the process" as he said above since he wouldnt be overseeing things and directly working with the incoming manager. He also said: "So someone coming in to take over Manchester United will have to have that pedigree, will have to have that logical success and achievement because it's such a big club" - as admirable as Moyes' achievements were at Everton for me he falls short of the required pedigree, success and achievement needed to manage United. One thing I've always thought is back in '86 (I wasn't even born!) when Fergie got the job, he would never have got it if he had David Moyes' CV. He was a proven winner and had both domestic and European titles to his name, those standards should have been upheld imo.
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You are correct. People are very quick to bring up the Alex Ferguson appoint when supporting Moyes - make no mistake, Alex Ferguson was one of the most sought after managers in football at the time. He'd just won a european trophy with Aberdeen....fecking Aberdeen! Splitting the Old Firm dominance is an achievement alone (im from Glasgow so believe me when i say it), but beating Real Madrid in a Euro Final with Aberdeen is/was incredible. To make my point, Ferguson was proven pedigree and no risk. He also took on a team that was sitting 4th bottom of the English league.

Moyes was a risk. Plain and simple. He may (if he gets time) turn it around. I am extremely doubtful that he will but its possible. I also dont think the club will be as patient as some think.
 
Why was Moyes given a 6 year contract, it would've been equally bizarre if had handed the same to the likes of Mourinho or Guardiola?

Would it not been wise to give him a 2/3 year conmtract with a view of extending...
 
Nate Dogg said:
Why was Moyes given a 6 year contract, it would've been equally bizarre if had handed the same to the likes of Mourinho or Guardiola?

Would it not been wise to give him a 2/3 year conmtract with a view of extending...
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It was meant to show the faith the club had in their man - nothing but PR. I would think the club have covered themselves with a set "get-out" fee regardless of how long left.
 
Its an interesting question, how the club are looking at it. On the one hand, trigger happy, worried about league position and the implications on revenue. On the other, loyalty to the decision SAF made. Put like that it seems a no brainer but for the fact that SAF is presumably in a position of some influence, and if he is feeling stubborn about it and argues forcefully that Moyes should be given time, I can imagine he will remain persuasive. I can imagine that would be the case as well, both that SAF will be stubborn, as is his nature, and that Woodward and the Glazers might find it hard to overrule him. But it could easily go the other way as well, especially if we dont just miss out on the top 4 by a bit, but end the season quite far away from the CL spots. It is hard to predict how bad things could get right now, when I initially predicted 8th I felt like I was going for my own personal worst case scenario so any surprise would be on the upside, but who is to say that is the worst case scenario. In previous seasons we have said we have no god given right to win the league. By the same logic, do we have a god given right to be in the top half of the table? If we sank that low all bets would surely be off.
 
akash02 said:
People have been criticizing the fact that Fergie had any input at all into appointing Moyes. You are advocating taking the players opinion into account.

Highly amusing indeed.
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Obviously the players wouldn't get to decide anything, of course that would be stupid. But if the board knew that almost all players wanted Mourinho it could be the little thing that tipped the decision in favour of Mourinho.

It's "common knowledge" that Charlton didn't want Mourinho, I do wonder if SAF deep down wanted him over Moyes.

I must say, legend that he is and all that, how much up to date is Charlton (76) really on todays modern football? This won't go down well I reckon..

We wouldn't be in 7th with Mourinho, that's certain. "You can't be certain, there's no way of knowing!" Yes, that's one thing that's certain, we'd be up there with Arsenal, City and Chelsea.

I agree he hasn't really been a revelation at Chelsea this time, but I think he's kinda bored, it's not the job he wanted.

I will admit though that even though I was a bit disappointed United chose Moyes over Mourinho, deep down I was kinda proud that my club chose certain values and stability over the circus Jose could be from time to time.

But if Moyes has to go this summer, how's that for stability?
 
100 said:
I'd love to know how accurate the information in this article is, the images were being shared on Twitter:

and something similar in another article...

I've no idea if they're accurate, but it seems frighteningly similar to what we're seeing on the pitch.
Click to expand...

Seems to tally with my impression of what's going on tactically. Very limited approach to the game, and one that most teams will be able to counter defensively.
 
Floyd said:
Obviously the players wouldn't get to decide anything, of course that would be stupid. But if the board knew that almost all players wanted Mourinho it could be the little thing that tipped the decision in favour of Mourinho.

It's "common knowledge" that Charlton didn't want Mourinho, I do wonder if SAF deep down wanted him over Moyes.

I must say, legend that he is and all that, how much up to date is Charlton (76) really on todays modern football? This won't go down well I reckon..

We wouldn't be in 7th with Mourinho, that's certain. "You can't be certain, there's no way of knowing!" Yes, that's one thing that's certain, we'd be up there with Arsenal, City and Chelsea.

I agree he hasn't really been a revelation at Chelsea this time, but I think he's kinda bored, it's not the job he wanted.

I will admit though that even though I was a bit disappointed United chose Moyes over Mourinho, deep down I was kinda proud that my club chose certain values and stability over the circus Jose could be from time to time.

But if Moyes has to go this summer, how's that for stability?
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I dont want to disappoint you.

You cant know:

  • We would be doing any better under Mourinho. I agree it is probable but it isnt certain, you must see that. Following SAF was a unique situation and anything could have happened. But I agree with you, even before the decision was made it looked like the safer bet in the short term.
  • That Mourinho wanted the United job more than the Chelsea job, and therefore that his current disposition is boredom, as opposed to just not doing very well. He was house hunting in London before any of this came out. Perhaps he already knew but on the other hand perhaps he has a palce in his heart for Chelsea and always wanted to go back.
Of the two bits of pedantry my heart is far more in the latter one. I am pretty sure myself we would be doing better with Mourinho. Im less sure Mourinho wanted the United job, Im sure he was interested in it but for me it seems arrogant to assume everyone would opt to manage us over other clubs. London is a bigger draw than Manchester, he would have more money to spend at Chelsea, he already has history there and a rapport with the fans, and he may just not have fancied the risk of following SAF. I always thought it might prove to be a bit of a poisoned chalice, Im sure the thought crossed his mind as well.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
I wouldn't be averse to that in the least, indeed we should have attempted either it or the more defensive 4-5-1 weeks if not months ago.The status quo is all so counterintuitive, why persist with a system which seemingly only highlights the flaws in the squad time after time?
If the midfield is light then
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4-5-1 and 4-3-3 end up being the same system anyway. Nobody is going to leave 3 forwards up the pitch when we're defending. Either way we still end up playing two wingers and instead of having two of the position we have all our talent in we end up with one estra shit midfielder. I'm not sure how that helps us. We seen it on Tuesday and we were gash.
 
Adebesi said:
I dont want to disappoint you.

You cant know:

  • We would be doing any better under Mourinho. I agree it is probable but it isnt certain, you must see that. Following SAF was a unique situation and anything could have happened. But I agree with you, even before the decision was made it looked like the safer bet in the short term.
  • That Mourinho wanted the United job more than the Chelsea job, and therefore that his current disposition is boredom, as opposed to just not doing very well. He was house hunting in London before any of this came out. Perhaps he already knew but on the other hand perhaps he has a palce in his heart for Chelsea and always wanted to go back.
Of the two bits of pedantry my heart is far more in the latter one. I am pretty sure myself we would be doing better with Mourinho. Im less sure Mourinho wanted the United job, Im sure he was interested in it but for me it seems arrogant to assume everyone would opt to manage us over other clubs. London is a bigger draw than Manchester, he would have more money to spend at Chelsea, he already has history there and a rapport with the fans, and he may just not have fancied the risk of following SAF. I always thought it might prove to be a bit of a poisoned chalice, Im sure the thought crossed his mind as well.
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Well yeah, Jose wanting the United job over the Chelsea gig is just my gut feeling, I could obviously be way wrong about that. But all that ass kissing last winter sure seems peculiar now though.

And he's doing just fine at Chelsea come to think of it, 1 point behind City is not bad at all.

Anyway, true or not, reading that all players wanted Mourinho is a bit gut wrenching now that Moyes is struggling like a mofo.
 
So if the players unanimously wanted Mourinho, with Fergie even earlier hinting at him being his successor, it makes you wonder - was it Charlton's reservations which proved to be the death knell for it?

Because as it stands, its pretty-gut wrenching knowing we're stuck with Moyes when we could have had Mourinho were it not for one or two objections.
 
Kaos said:
Because as it stands, its pretty-gut wrenching knowing we're stuck with Moyes when we could have had Mourinho were it not for one or two objections.
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It's certainly not gut-wrenching, for most people anyway. There were valid reservations about Mourinho and they haven't gone away just because Moyes is doing a bit shit.
 
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