Moyes So Far!

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Livvie said:
Broophs, Fergie always had charisma. Considering the number of people here who are actually backing DM, there would have been even more backing Fergie.
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The difference is as we stand now we have the experience of sticking with SAF to give us that sense of the value of longevity. And SAF's endorsement and plea to get behind Moyes ringing in our ears. When SAF arrived neither of those factors were there, we had no reason to be obsessive about giving a manager time.

I'm sure there would have been some for and some against in that hypothetical situation, as there almost always is.
 
Sarni said:
Indeed. I doubt many would complain if we hired Simeone who'd won Europa League a year before. Ferguson had a very good CV at the time.
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Exactly, if we had hired a Manager that had won a Europa with a Scottish team and 3 championships and 4 cups, no one would be complaining right now, at least not about the manager.
 
Serious question why is Fergie at every match, in particular at the away games usually sat with some of the squad players in his Utd overcoat and gear.

Is it causing a distraction and putting extra pressure on Moyes?
 
Nate Dogg said:
Serious question why is Fergie at every match, in particular at the away games usually sat with some of the squad players in his Utd overcoat and gear.

Is it causing a distraction and putting extra pressure on Moyes?
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I'm not sure however, him riding on the team bus in Germany was a tad too far in my opinion

If anything, I'm starting to think Fergie is missing it massively
 
.Rossi said:
I'm not sure however, him riding on the team bus in Germany was a tad too far in my opinion

If anything, I'm starting to think Fergie is missing it massively
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Of course he is missing it. He never gave it up because he no longer enjoyed it. I doubt he regrets retiring though. I personally don't think it's a good idea for him to remain too close to the squad. If there are doubts over Moyes from some of the players, spending time with Fergie is only more likely to remind them of what they're missing.
 
Nate Dogg said:
Serious question why is Fergie at every match, in particular at the away games usually sat with some of the squad players in his Utd overcoat and gear.

Is it causing a distraction and putting extra pressure on Moyes?
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Because he wants to watch Manchester United?

If he is a distraction or an added pressure for Moyes, then he is in the wrong job.
 
Spiersey said:
Of course he is missing it. He never gave it up because he no longer enjoyed it. I doubt he regrets retiring though. I personally don't think it's a good idea for him to remain too close to the squad. If there are doubts over Moyes from some of the players, spending time with Fergie is only more likely to remind them of what they're missing.
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One thing that has slipped under the radar for me is why RVP was recovering and doing light training with PSV?

I'm a bit confused on that
 
.Rossi said:
One thing that has slipped under the radar for me is why RVP was recovering and doing light training with PSV?

I'm a bit confused on that
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I imagine he knows one of their coaches from his time either with the national team or from a previous club. It's not too unusual for that to happen. However it does open up rumours of some disagreement between him and the staff over how best to handle his fitness.
 
Spiersey said:
I imagine he knows one of their coaches from his time either with the national team or from a previous club. It's not too unusual for that to happen. However it does open up rumours of some disagreement between him and the staff over how best to handle his fitness.
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Preciously my point..It seems to have been swept under the carpet here as I haven't seen much mention of it. I'm only speculating mind.
 
Should things go bad to worse, i got a feeling Fergie may be asked to step in to either work alongside Moyes or to replace him until a successor can be found.
 
Nate Dogg said:
Serious question why is Fergie at every match, in particular at the away games usually sat with some of the squad players in his Utd overcoat and gear.

Is it causing a distraction and putting extra pressure on Moyes?
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He's a director of the club. Also, I'm not sure he's sat there in his 'Utd overcoat and gear' unless he's wearing it under his coat.

The only place this is a story is in the press, and maybe among liverpool fans.

If anyone should be feeling pressure of having him sat their watching its the players.
 
Sarni said:
Indeed. I doubt many would complain if we hired Simeone who'd won Europa League a year before. Ferguson had a very good CV at the time.
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Fergie breaking the Old Firm was impressive enough. Aberdeen had only one league title to their name in the 1950s before Fergie won three. They haven't won one since either. What was even more incredible is that Fergie took Aberdeen to a European final and beat Real fecking Madrid to win the CWC.

If there was a manager working miracles like that around now I am sure that we would be wanking ourselves silly over him.
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
Fergie breaking the Old Firm was impressive enough. Aberdeen had only one league title to their name in the 1950s before Fergie won three. They haven't won one since either. What was even more incredible is that Fergie took Aberdeen to a European final and beat Real fecking Madrid to win the CWC.

If there was a manager working miracles like that around now I am sure that we would be wanking ourselves silly over him.
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Klopp...Everyone in this place sees him as some sort of Jesus Christ second coming.

I even remember one post saying "he just looks like the type of guy you'd do anything to play for"....

What? The underground European porn star look?
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
Fergie breaking the Old Firm was impressive enough. Aberdeen had only one league title to their name in the 1950s before Fergie won three. They haven't won one since either. What was even more incredible is that Fergie took Aberdeen to a European final and beat Real fecking Madrid to win the CWC.

If there was a manager working miracles like that around now I am sure that we would be wanking ourselves silly over him.
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Solsjkaer springs to mind!
He won the 2007–08 Lancashire Senior Cup by defeating the Liverpool Reserves 3–2 in the final.[14] On 12 May 2010, Solskjær won his first Manchester Senior Cup by defeating Bolton 1–0 at the Reebok Stadium

On 30 October 2011, Solskjær won the Tippeligaen with Molde in his first year as manager for the team. Also the first time Molde had won the Norwegian Premier League

On 11 November 2012, Solskjær's team, Molde, won the Tippeligaen for the second consecutive year

On 24 November 2013, Molde beat Rosenborg 4–2 in the 2013 Norwegian Football Cup Final to win the Norwegian Cup for the third time in the club's history, thus securing a place in the 2014–15 UEFA Europa League qualifiers.


 
Moyes' stint so far runs close with Zaccheronis run at Milan, Inter and Juve. tactical feck ups, player revolt and poor media management. Its not the first time a manager with a thin CV being offered a chance at a marquee club. The likes of Zoff, Tabarez, Luxembergo, Rexach, Pellegrini, Tito and now Tata Martino weren't really top notch to warrant Real Madrid, Milan,Juve or Barcelona jobs, and most of them never lasted long but tactically almost of them were hand in glove. The aura that Moyes seems to lack at the moment. As long as he do not break the system built by Fergie and continue to improve himself, he ould survive, most of us would back him to the core but exploding before the media and berating over refereeing decisions are only complicating the plight.
 
.Rossi said:
Klopp...Everyone in this place sees him as some sort of Jesus Christ second coming.

I even remember one post saying "he just looks like the type of guy you'd do anything to play for"....

What? The underground European porn star look?
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To be fair to Klopp he's done a very good job at Dortmund and seems to have the right philosophy regarding youth and clever signings etc. Does seem like a good fit for United but it's probably not going to happen, is it.
 
Ryan's Beard said:
To be fair to Klopp he's done a very good job at Dortmund and seems to have the right philosophy regarding youth and clever signings etc. Does seem like a good fit for United but it's probably not going to happen, is it.
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Not in the near future, no.
 
RedTillI'mDead said:
Solsjkaer springs to mind!
He won the 2007–08 Lancashire Senior Cup by defeating the Liverpool Reserves 3–2 in the final.[14] On 12 May 2010, Solskjær won his first Manchester Senior Cup by defeating Bolton 1–0 at the Reebok Stadium

On 30 October 2011, Solskjær won the Tippeligaen with Molde in his first year as manager for the team. Also the first time Molde had won the Norwegian Premier League

On 11 November 2012, Solskjær's team, Molde, won the Tippeligaen for the second consecutive year

On 24 November 2013, Molde beat Rosenborg 4–2 in the 2013 Norwegian Football Cup Final to win the Norwegian Cup for the third time in the club's history, thus securing a place in the 2014–15 UEFA Europa League qualifiers.
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What Ole has achieved is nothing compared to Fergie's achievements pre United. Dominating Scotland with anyone outside the oldfirm is incredible. Gothenburg is the single greatest night of my life (being an Aberdeen fan) There's no manager around right now that has achieved something similar to Aberdeen beating Real Madrid. The closest is Porto but even then they are one of the mainstays in Europe.
 
vijay said:
Moyes' stint so far runs close with Zaccheronis run at Milan, Inter and Juve. tactical feck ups, player revolt and poor media management. Its not the first time a manager with a thin CV being offered a chance at a marquee club. The likes of Zoff, Tabarez, Luxembergo, Rexach, Pellegrini, Tito and now Tata Martino weren't really top notch to warrant Real Madrid, Milan,Juve or Barcelona jobs, and most of them never lasted long but tactically almost of them were hand in glove. The aura that Moyes seems to lack at the moment. As long as he do not break the system built by Fergie and continue to improve himself, he ould survive, most of us would back him to the core but exploding before the media and berating over refereeing decisions are only complicating the plight.
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:lol: Yeh, Fergie never did either of those.
 
There's a difference between blaming the ref for a bad game or a bad decision, and trying to make out the fact we are 7th in the league and coming off the back of 3 defeats in a row is down to refs decisions. Plus, when you have been as successful as SAF was it buys you the right to talk a fair bit of shit - which I think a lot of his rants about refs were, at the end of the day. Moyes doesnt have that kind of capital, it just sounds desperate and undignified coming from him. He needs to take ownership of it.
 
Adebesi said:
There's a difference between blaming the ref for a bad game or a bad decision, and trying to make out the fact we are 7th in the league and coming off the back of 3 defeats in a row is down to refs decisions.
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Agreed, massive difference.


Moyes never said that of course.
 
Sky Sports - They didn't sack big Sam yet, what else have we got to fill the space until something actually happens?
 
Read what Harrison had to say, it's quite interesting coming from him.

Re getting rid of the staff especially:

"In hindsight it does look like a mistake, I don't want to criticise anyone but I've got to be honest because if I'm thinking that why shouldn't I say it, like most of the Man United supporters," he added.
"They certainly should have kept the staff that they had, they shouldn't have brought so many in from Everton."
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Its hard to argue with this in retrospect. I can see why he wanted to do it and it might well have worked, but given how things have gone it is easy to point to this as part of the explanation, and probably quite a big part of it. But I dont think it demonstrates cowardice on his part as some have said, that he was only happy in his comfort zone and was scared of working with SAF's people. If anything I would say the opposite, it would have been easy to come in and leave things as they were, but he took a bold decision. One that looks to have backfired. And even if this isnt actually "the reason" for our problems, the very fact people are even talking about it makes it an unhelpful distraction.
 
Replacing all the staff in one go was always a gamble but one with an eye on the long game. Make your changes quick and fast, short term pain etc etc.

That said, I don't think anyone could have imagined it would have gone as badly, changing coaches is one aspect that Moyes does need to carry the can for, but I can understand why he did it, particularly given that, based on their interviews after they left, Phelan and Rene basically thought they were running things.
 
I wouldn't be too critical of Moyes for doing it either, I don't think he had much of a choice and it probably should be seen as a brave decision. The thing is, and this is how I think I now feel about the whole thing, when you appoint a manager with no experience at this level he is inevitably going to bring staff with him who have no experience at this level and that's the problem. If the new coaches are recommending certain players do this and that with their game or criticise them in any way our players (naturally it has to be said) may begin to question - 'who is this guy to tell me what to do'?

If someone with the reputation of Mourinho (not saying I want him here) got rid of the entire staff and brought in his own the players would naturally accept this as they've seen the results he's gotten and would trust in his way of doing things. But because of Moyes lack of experience at the highest level the minute things go wrong players will start to question whether he's up to the job, especially if they're not enjoying training.
 
Nate Dogg said:
I can see SAF as taking up the Mike Phelan role AKA "Asst. Mgr but really manage the team".
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If he was going to do that, he would have done it in the beginning. He could have hung around and essentially managed the team for another season or two while Moyes gets acclimated to life at United and maybe learns how to be a successful manager. Moyes would have never gone for that though.
 
Eyepopper said:
Replacing all the staff in one go was always a gamble but one with an eye on the long game. Make your changes quick and fast, short term pain etc etc.

That said, I don't think anyone could have imagined it would have gone as badly, changing coaches is one aspect that Moyes does need to carry the can for, but I can understand why he did it, particularly given that, based on their interviews after they left, Phelan and Rene basically thought they were running things.
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For me it's too easy to say that he should've kept the staff. In reality we're talking about two men here: Rene and Phelan. There are huge question marks over both of them, if you ask me. If they had been different characters, more suited to working with Moyes (who takes a very different approach to training sessions, not least, compared to Fergie), then by all means keep them, or one of them. But it looks obvious to me that they were not suited: Keeping Rene in his old function was impossible, as Moyes takes a much more hands-on approach to training. What then? Give him even more influence than he had under Fergie? Would that be good in the long run for a man who needs to be the absolute authority at the club? Rene could have stayed on in a lesser role if he had wished to - but he didn't want that, having ambitions of his own.

He could have kept Phelan on as part of the coaching team - yes. Not as an assistant manager. That is wildly unrealistic. And with Phelan it all boils down to this: He knew the players, he was a familiar face from a success laden era, a link to the golden past - whatever. There are figures like this on the staff and on the board - all over the place - at United. I fail to see what immense difference Mike Phelan would've made.
 
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