That's the big concern. It's far more dangerous to give a bad manager too long than it is to give someone with a small chance of turning it around too little time. There's an asymmetry in the risk.
Moyes So Far!
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That's the big concern. It's far more dangerous to give a bad manager too long than it is to give someone with a small chance of turning it around too little time. There's an asymmetry in the risk.
Im not sure how to do that, but i just check my record and it was actually in the 88th minute on sky coverage. Much later than i thought. But still, pretty depressing.
I'm not suggesting it isn't. I shared those concerns as I've mentioned numerous times on here. But no matter who we'd gotten some fans would have complained. I know from reading books about that period that Fergie wasn't first choice for some supporters. Hiring a manager who hadn't been successful in England is nothing new to us.
Definatly, although as a player, surely seeing your own boss looking so deflated doesnt give as much belief as possible.
Moyes is not a bad manager. He's just not experienced enough (at this level and at this moment in time) to do, what became on the 8th May 2013, the most difficult job in football...
I do think this will harm us though if things keep going the way they are and we stick with him.
I do think this will harm us though if things keep going the way they are and we stick with him.
Some fans always complain. There would have been people complaining even if we'd got Mourinho.
They would have been wrong to complain about Fergie's record, but I suspect they're probably right to complain about Moyes'.
This team is good enough to get into the top 4. Once we're fully fit again, I can see us trudge to wins.
Would ease some pressure for him if he does something this window though.
Would ease some pressure for him if he does something this window though.
There wasn't much he could do by that point. Standing on the touchline, screaming and waving his hands about wasn't going to change anything. It was just the look on his face that was upsetting. He seemed beaten.
He's looked slumped in his seat a few times in these sorts of games where we've been losing. It's hard to take, hearing him say "we played well" and "we didn't do alot wrong" after watching such limp performances. Obviously he has to be positive to take the pressure off his players, but it's still not easy to listen to, as it makes us all think that Moyes believes that it was a good performance.
We have good players, in a good, but slightly flawed squad. We should be doing a whole lot better.
In numbers: Manchester United records broken under David Moyes
His short stint at the Old Trafford helm has seen a host of the club's record being eradicated.
82: Defeats to Tottenham Hotspur, Swansea City and Sunderland have meant that United have lost their first three matches of a calender year in 82 years,
1974: United have now lost three encounters in the month of January. That hadn't occurred in 40 years.
22: Those matches have also resulted in United losing three matches in one week for the first time in 22 seasons.
2001: Sticking with the three successive defeats theme, that previously happened 13 years ago as Derby County, Southampton and Tottenham Hotspur came out on top against the Red Devils.
10: As for Swansea, they had never won at Old Trafford prior to their in the FA Cup - a sequence that dated back 10 matches.
20: Sunderland have also broken a hoodoo this year, having beaten United for the first time in 20 attempts. That triumph, back in 2000, was also in the League Cup.
1992: The year that Everton - Moyes's former club - last won at Old Trafford prior to this campaign. A goal from full-back Bryan Oviedo was enough for Roberto Martinez to do what Moyes had failed to do in his 11 years in charge of the Toffees -win away at United.
41: Yohan Cabaye's strike midway through the second half secured a for Newcastle United at Old Trafford, meaning that the Magpies headed back to Tyneside with all three points. It was the maiden time that they had done so in some 41 years.
1978:Laurie Cunningham were among the goals when West Bromwich Albion last won at Old Trafford back in 1978. This time around, Morgan Amalfitano and Saido Berahino were the heroes as the Baggies ended a 35-year wait for a win. West Brom had also failed to beat United in 13 prior attempts.
8: Southampton ended an eight-match losing run against United courtesy ofAdam Lallanalate equaliser in October.
26: From their 20 Premier League matches so far, United have dropped 26 points. Last season, they shipped 25 throughout the whole campaign.
25: The percentage number of matches that United have lost so far this season in all competitions - eight from 32. During the previous campaign, Ferguson's men lost 10 of 54.
His short stint at the Old Trafford helm has seen a host of the club's record being eradicated.
82: Defeats to Tottenham Hotspur, Swansea City and Sunderland have meant that United have lost their first three matches of a calender year in 82 years,
1974: United have now lost three encounters in the month of January. That hadn't occurred in 40 years.
22: Those matches have also resulted in United losing three matches in one week for the first time in 22 seasons.
2001: Sticking with the three successive defeats theme, that previously happened 13 years ago as Derby County, Southampton and Tottenham Hotspur came out on top against the Red Devils.
10: As for Swansea, they had never won at Old Trafford prior to their in the FA Cup - a sequence that dated back 10 matches.
20: Sunderland have also broken a hoodoo this year, having beaten United for the first time in 20 attempts. That triumph, back in 2000, was also in the League Cup.
1992: The year that Everton - Moyes's former club - last won at Old Trafford prior to this campaign. A goal from full-back Bryan Oviedo was enough for Roberto Martinez to do what Moyes had failed to do in his 11 years in charge of the Toffees -win away at United.
41: Yohan Cabaye's strike midway through the second half secured a for Newcastle United at Old Trafford, meaning that the Magpies headed back to Tyneside with all three points. It was the maiden time that they had done so in some 41 years.
1978:Laurie Cunningham were among the goals when West Bromwich Albion last won at Old Trafford back in 1978. This time around, Morgan Amalfitano and Saido Berahino were the heroes as the Baggies ended a 35-year wait for a win. West Brom had also failed to beat United in 13 prior attempts.
8: Southampton ended an eight-match losing run against United courtesy ofAdam Lallanalate equaliser in October.
26: From their 20 Premier League matches so far, United have dropped 26 points. Last season, they shipped 25 throughout the whole campaign.
25: The percentage number of matches that United have lost so far this season in all competitions - eight from 32. During the previous campaign, Ferguson's men lost 10 of 54.
To be fair, a lot of those are stretching, or recycling the same results for different, obscure records. Moyes was also first manager in 17 and a half years to lose an away tie on the 3rd Wednesday of November during a full moon under a Tory Prime Minister.
Do you think that Woodward will have started to quietly sound out potential new managers behind the scenes now? I'd be surprised if those kind of feelers weren't being put out to gauge interest ahead of the summer.
That idiot better had better be doing other things than look for a different manager. After all he has contributed to the problems we face now by fecking up every bit of transfer we did in the summer. He should be out there making sure he gets the players moyes wants this window.
The difference was that it worked for Sir Alex, he had a style of play which was horrible to watch at times but we won the matches so you cant argue with the results. And last year we had no scholes but our attempted crosses and long balls percentage was lower. I expected a new manager to add more fluidity to our attack not make us more rigid.
What are the obvious reasons as to why fabio isnt trusted?
Fair enough, I believe that the majority dont believe in him but like you said its just a guess based on nothing concrete.
Pocco what was your season expectation for this and the next season btw?
And can you give me any example where the manager has turned it around after underachieving so spectacularly.
No, dont think so. Things like this leak very quickly and that'd be like the last straw in the current scenario.
He could have been negotiating and testing waters with several candidate's though
Managers tend to keep their mouth shut regarding to offers, it never benefited them the way it benefited a player sometimes to leak interest from other clubs
If Moyes were sacked, Woodward's priority would probably be to negotiate a sponsorship deal with some crisps brand based in Cambodia.
very good
Not really.
I know people who followed United through the old second division, and would travel up from the south coast to all sorts of unexciting places, home and away, week in, week out, midweek etc. and they're angry/disappointed/depressed (delete where applicable) about the current situation.
You can't call everyone who is voicing their emotions, glory-hunters.
The glory-hunters are the ones who won't be here in the future and might be found on BlueMoon or some other such dive. Those who are whinging/complaining/voicing an opinion, might be moaners, might even be spoilt, but not necessarily glory-hunters.
Good post.
Surely the so called gloryhunters are the people that are simply losing interest in the club, because of the current situation. Not the fans that are voicing their opinions.
I actually presumed we'd never done that before. That's cheered me up!
Thanks, Shark.
I followed United through the 80s, when we were pretty average, but there was always that buzz. Somehow, they were always special.
I don't recall the performances ever being as consistently bad and as painful to watch.
Hands up who's complaining because of the results, and who's complaining because of the performances?
Obviously a bit of both, but if we were slamming shots in all day long, with goalkeepers playing out of their lives and the cross bar and upright getting rattled and still losing it might give a different feeling. The fact is we are losing to shitty teams without even looking like winning!
Moyes can complain about the ref and penalty all he wants, but bottom line we should be spanking a team like Sunderland! The penalty should be irrelevant. The reason it is relevant is for highlighting our poor defence. Cleverley trying to get back to help out, but should easily be covered by centre backs or Evra. The quality of our defence has deteriorated and the replacements are not good enough, or at least certainly not good enough yet.
Evans may have had a fair number of good games, but he is simply not at the standard of Vidic, Ferdinand, Stam, Bruce, Pallister, just to name a few. Smalling doesn't look that level either, and too early to say if he ever will. His modest footballing background gives me reason to be concerned. These days to be the best you surely need to start with the best! I think Jones is the only one who looks genuinely good enough, but he isn't even being played as a CB.
What are you on about, my post was talking about Mourinho and Chelsea. Have we finished the season yet? Obviously 7th may have been an achievement for Everton but not for us so he needs to be challenging for the title for us. However he should be judged by his final league position and I still think he will get us into the top 4 which will allow us to invest in the summer.
Actually, at the time, winning the Scottish League wasn't a minor detail and at any time breaking the Rangers/Celtic stranglehold is and was a big deal. A CWC was a nice thing to win as well, beyond where we'd been in 20 years.
I'm not sure why you mention Venables who'd won one Liga in 3 years at Barca, not exactly record shattering stuff. Clough perhaps, but if we were going to go that route (I would have done) it would have been years earlier.
That said, yes, of course - fans have opinions. There were others who could have been appointed, and we're fortunate that we finally got it right. We got it wrong often enough.
My opinion now is that the jury's still out on Moyes. I don't think he arrived with compelling evidence of his ability to manage a top team. Now he's here we're still waiting to see it.
Probably been posted already but made me laugh:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...ter-United-from-the-stands.html?frame=2784434
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...ter-United-from-the-stands.html?frame=2784434
But then our criteria for buzz was different. We could enjoy being a nearly team with a decent chance in the Cups. We could take pleasure in ruining Liverpool's week or beating City.
The same's true now, but you still have to beat Liverpool or City to make it fun. There was a buzz when we beat Arsenal the other week or smacked Leverkusen around, or when Januzaj does well. Performances and results combine to create a mood and expectations change.
No way would that be true. Signing Fergie back then would be a lot like getting Mourinho direct from Porto.
Obviously I'm being facetious, as the mention of Venables would suggest. My point was that fans will always complain, not that the substance of the example I gave is reasonable.
I've only been a part of whatever this is since '95 so my only experience is success. What drew me to United most was the supporters and that feeling that came from seeing a home crowd...like you were a part of something special. For that, in my humble opinion, results don't matter and performances don't matter. I support the club, come what may.*
* Not saying that anyone who feels otherwise doesn't.
The old man on the bottom right looks as though hes just seen Cleverley warming up!
I think that might have been more generally applicable a few decades ago, when football wasn't such an expensive business. Nowadays, people want - expect - to be entertained, no matter how much they love their club.
It's very idealistic to think that supporters will happily part with money to watch performances like last night's on a regular basis.
Performances. We weren't inspiring last season, but if we were chasing a game late on, we'd be camped outside the 18 sending ball after ball in for 20 minutes. These days, we dick about, let the opponents have the ball some, get it back and dick about some more. You could depend on United to go all out when necessary. Yesterday, Moyes waiting until 5 minutes left to bring on Chicharito and left Zaha on the bench. Moyes is quick to pack it in as soon as we have a lead and start wasting time rather than going for the more. Against Fulham, we scored three in about 10 minutes and didn't bother for most of the rest of the match. Fergie's football wasn't always beautiful but there was always potential. I'm just not sure Moyes has that potential, at least I never saw it at Everton. Workmanlike doesn't suffice for Manchester United on a long-term basis. That's all Moyes has ever been.
Broophs, Fergie always had charisma. Considering the number of people here who are actually backing DM, there would have been even more backing Fergie.
Indeed. I doubt many would complain if we hired Simeone who'd won Europa League a year before. Ferguson had a very good CV at the time.
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