Moyes So Far!

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Wait, hold on a second, are these quotes actually real? '"I thought the players, our crowd were unbelievable, the players deserved to get a result. It's a two legged game and I am really looking forward to the second leg." Now, lets just stop a second and actually look at this statement. Properly look at it. Because, quite frankly, I don't think enough's actually been made of it. Its utterly outrageous.

We've just been beaten by a team that are bottom of the Premier League by 4 points, a team that have won just 3 games in the league all season, a team that have a goal difference of -18, a team that have already sacked one manager this season, a team who's defense today contained 3 players previously not deemed good enough to play for Manchester United. The team that are the bookies second favourites to be relegated this season. And on top of all that, this was our third defeat in less then a week.

And what is the United manager's reaction to all this?...Thats right, to claim that his players were unbelievable. Not unlucky, or disappointing or anything like that...but he actually claimed that they were unbelievable. I mean come on, just come on! What planet is he on? Does he honestly think we're all that stupid?....We all saw the match, we all saw how utterly shit we were (once again) and yet he still comes out with this utter tripe. If this is the kind of thing he's saying in the dressing room then its no wonder he's lost them all already.
 
Sam said:
And what is the United manager's reaction to all this?...Thats right, to claim that his players were unbelievable. Not unlucky, or disappointing or anything like that...but he actually claimed that they were unbelievable. I mean come on, just come on! What planet is he on? Does he honestly think we're all that stupid?....We all saw the match, we all saw how utterly shit we were (once again) and yet he still comes out with this utter tripe. If this is the kind of thing he's saying in the dressing room then its no wonder he's lost them all already.
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He's obviously not fecking saying that in the dressing room is he. What else is he going to say to the press? "Well I really fecked that up didn't I! Jesus, we're shit!"
 
Ryan's Beard said:
He's obviously not fecking saying that in the dressing room is he. What else is he going to say to the press? "Well I really fecked that up didn't I! Jesus, we're shit!"
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Anything that doesn't include claiming his players we're unbelievable having just seen them lose to the team bottom of the league, and for the 3rd time in a week. Its pathetic.
 
Sam said:
Anything that doesn't include claiming his players we're unbelievable having just seen them lose to the team bottom of the league, and for the 3rd time in a week. Its pathetic.
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I'd contend that lapping up what anyone says to a journo and mulling it over in your head to analyse what he might better say to appease you is a little bit pathetic too. He's chatting shit in interviews. We've had 25 years of Ferguson. You should be used to our manager spouting whatever nonsense he feels like by now.
 
It's actually hard to fathom just how much pressure he's under right now, I really do feel bad for him. The dream job is turning into a poisoned chalice. As if it wasn't hard enough all ready but injuries are killing us; now we've hit January, supposedly his saving grace in which he can sign the players to solve all our problems but this is only going to heap more pressure on him and to make matters worse it's pressure built on unrealistic expectations. There's little to no chance he'll be able to sign top quality players in January and yet newspapers and websites are dedicating whole columns to discussing his possible targets, most of whom are pretty much unattainable. I just hope most fans aren't influenced by that kind of thing and don't expect miracles this month. Once RVP and Rooney are back things really should improve; RVP's return in particular should give everyone a lift.

If he does end up staying and manages to turn it around I would be absolutely delighted for him and it would be some achievement, one worthy of a long time successor really.
 
Sam said:
Anything that doesn't include claiming his players we're unbelievable having just seen them lose to the team bottom of the league, and for the 3rd time in a week. Its pathetic.
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He said the supporters were unbelievable. The supporters. Not the players. He also said he felt for said supporters, who are going through a rough one at the moment, but that he is sure he will turn this around. Then he complained a bit about the ref. And, yes, he said he felt we deserved more from the match.

Calm down, man. He feels for you.
 
Moyes went on to pay tribute to the travelling fans after claiming they showed him great support at Stadium of Light, with the increasingly pressurised United boss convinced his team did not deserve to lose against the Premier League's bottom side.
"Our crowd were unbelievable tonight, they were fantastic and the support they gave me especially was terrific," stated Moyes. "The players deserved it [the support] because they did well. This is a two-legged game and I'm really looking forward to the second game now.
"I can tell by the reaction in the dressing room that we will do everything we can to get it right. The players put in a strong performance tonight and it just didn't quite come off, but it will come, I can sense it."
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Unless he's deluded - or lying - it would appear he hasn't lost the dressing room.
 
I just wish he'd come out with a bit of anger; something along the lines of this is unacceptable and those who can't get on board will be shipped out. I'm sick of hearing how great the support is (no doubt it is,) and how well the team played despite losing.
 
jem said:
I just wish he'd come out with a bit of anger; something along the lines of this is unacceptable and those who can't get on board will be shipped out. I'm sick of hearing how great the support is (no doubt it is,) and how well the team played despite losing.
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He cant be angry and blame himself infront of the press. Wait.. Can he?
 
jem said:
I just wish he'd come out with a bit of anger; something along the lines of this is unacceptable and those who can't get on board will be shipped out. I'm sick of hearing how great the support is (no doubt it is,) and how well the team played despite losing.
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His anger seems to be directed at referees these past couple of games, rightly so. United, believe or not, do get bad calls over the years but have always had the quality and self believe to win games anyway. That's not the case this season.

I don't think slagging the players off in press conferences is the best way to go. Wtf does it achieve?
 
Ryan's Beard said:
I understand people wanting to avoid putting all the blame on the players (because it obviously isn't purely their fault) but why the feck are some people completely absolving them of any blame and pouring it all on Moyes? It's a fact the players have been shite this season. We've not been great for a few seasons now and lo and behold losing the greatest fecking manager of all time has obviously taken a toll on the team but that's still no excuse for some of the dire performances we've been seeing. Fletch, Januzaj and Rooney stick out as players who are giving it their best to crack on under what is clearly going to be a hard time but the entire club, board right down to playing staff has to shoulder some of the blame for what's going on.

All this "no it wasn't me it was him" blame diverting bollocks is what went on at the BBC and let Saville molest children and get away with it. If you're firmly in either camp (player's fault / Moyes' fault) and refuse to accept that the blame should be shared you are also directly responsible for paedophilia. I hope you're all fecking happy.
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It's simple. Buck stops with the manager. He picks the team, prepares the team for games, comes up with the tactics and ultimately the players try and apply his methods and instructions. While in charge he has the power to move them on.

Plenty seem happy to give Fergie all the credit for the league win last season without much credit going to the players to give Moyes even more benefit of the doubt, so it cuts both ways.
 
feck me. According to an Everton fan on my FB,

•Fergie lied about his wife's sister dying and only retired as he knew we were shit.
•None of this is Moyes' fault as us United fans don't live in the real world.
•He's disgusted with Robbo sitting with Fergie as Fergie fecked him out in the 80s with McGrath.
•All our players are terrible and are not top 4 material.

This guy is 52 years old
 
If the board finds out that Moyes has lost the dressing room he has to go. Not even up for debate. Not even sure he can stay if only he has lost parts of the dressing room, you can't sack some players in the middle of the season.

The other scenario for him to get sacked is if the owners declare to the board they don't have trust in his capability to turn this around. Then obviously he has to go. You can't continue with a manager/CEO who don't have the trust of the owners.

There are a few important key decisions in stake. The club can't change more then five six players in one window, maybe less. The Rooney situation needs and solution. Vidic and Evra? Hernandez?

It's no meaning of buying players if you don't know who's going to stay or go.

I predict that right now is David Moyes one defeat away from sacking, lose to Cardiff and he's gone. He needs to do miracle in the rest of the season to survive. The fault for this is sentimental wishful thinking from SAF and SBC, Moyes was the wrong candidate in the first place. Probably they didn't do their home work properly. This is the bad part with letting SAF being so influential and powerful after his retirement. Hopefully lessons learnt.

Just so their will be no misunderstandings. I take no pleasure at all to write this lines. Just sad to witness a good man walk this road.




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I don't understand why suddenly everyone believes players don't want to play for Moyes. Fletcher and Giggs both have come out and said the players have let Moyes down by not performing. Maybe more players have said good things about him. Giggs' word alone should be enough to squash those rumors.
 
If the board finds out that Moyes has lost the dressing room he has to go. Not even up for debate. Not even sure he can stay if only he has lost parts of the dressing room, you can't sack some players in the middle of the season.

The other scenario for him to get sacked is if the owners declare to the board they don't have trust in his capability to turn this around. Then obviously he has to go. You can't continue with a manager/CEO who don't have the trust of the owners.

There are a few important key decisions in stake. The club can't change more then five six players in one window, maybe less. The Rooney situation needs and solution. Vidic and Evra? Hernandez?

It's no meaning of buying players if you don't know who's going to stay or go.

I predict that right now is David Moyes one defeat away from sacking, lose to Cardiff and he's gone. He needs to do miracle in the rest of the season to survive. The fault for this is sentimental wishful thinking from SAF and SBC, Moyes was the wrong candidate in the first place. Probably they didn't do their home work properly. This is the bad part with letting SAF being so influential and powerful after his retirement. Hopefully lessons learnt.

Just so their will be no misunderstandings. I take no pleasure at all to write this lines. Just sad to witness a good man walk this road.




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7even said:
If the board finds out that Moyes has lost the dressing room he has to go. Not even up for debate. Not even sure he can stay if only he has lost parts of the dressing room, you can't sack some players in the middle of the season.

The other scenario for him to get sacked is if the owners declare to the board they don't have trust in his capability to turn this around. Then obviously he has to go. You can't continue with a manager/CEO who don't have the trust of the owners.

There are a few important key decisions in stake. The club can't change more then five six players in one window, maybe less. The Rooney situation needs and solution. Vidic and Evra? Hernandez?

It's no meaning of buying players if you don't know who's going to stay or go.

I predict that right now is David Moyes one defeat away from sacking, lose to Cardiff and he's gone. He needs to do miracle in the rest of the season to survive. The fault for this is sentimental wishful thinking from SAF and SBC, Moyes was the wrong candidate in the first place. Probably they didn't do their home work properly. This is the bad part with letting SAF being so influential and powerful after his retirement. Hopefully lessons learnt.

Just so their will be no misunderstandings. I take no pleasure at all to write this lines. Just sad to witness a good man walk this road.




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I'm sure you don't. But you seem to take pleasure in posting them, seeing as you did it twice in ten minutes.
 
Sky1981 said:
Here's a thought :

People remembers that SAF was given time, but people forget that if Atkinson was given more time, Fergie wouldn't have come
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Some will also remember that Atkinson had been on the job for more than six months when he was fired. That's a thought too, I suppose.
 
Stack said:
This lost the dressing room talk is all assumption based on what?
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It's not based on much at all, I think. Just us losing and the players not looking particularly chipper about it. We look lost, as you would when you...er...are a bit lost. It's not the same as being in revolt against your manager - apart from Rio's foolish comment about the team announcements there has been nothing to suggest anything of the sort. Unless you believe Lawrenson's rubbish about RVP, that is.
 
I don't really blame anyone, to any great degree.

I don't blame SAF for leaving things in a less than ideal state, given he only decided to go at relatively short notice, due in part to family circumstances, we're told. I never had a problem with Moyes appointment. I don't find it particularly surprising that the results have been much worse than we're used to, as I imagine it's fair shock to the system for the players to be adjusting after the first managerial change we've had in a generation. I don't personally believe keeping SAF's coaching staff would've made a great difference, as I think it just as likely it would've hindered Moyes as I do that it's currently hindering the players.

I think this is a bad case of what can happen when losing a pivotal figure, who has been present for so long.

It's grim right now but I'm not really that worried. I'm inclined to believe the claims we have considerable funds to invest. I don't see those drying up in the near future, given the amount we make off the pitch.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
I don't really blame anyone, to any great degree.

I don't blame SAF for leaving things in a less than ideal state, given he only decided to go at relatively short notice, due in part to family circumstances, we're told. I never had a problem with Moyes appointment. I don't find it particularly surprising that the results have been much worse than we're used to, as I imagine it's fair shock to the system for the players to be adjusting after the first managerial change we've had in a generation. I don't personally believe keeping SAF's coaching staff would've made a great difference, as I think it just as likely it would've hindered Moyes as I do that it's currently hindering the players.

I think this is a bad case of what can happen when losing a pivotal figure, who has been present for so long.

It's grim right now but I'm not really that worried. I'm inclined to believe the claims we have considerable funds to invest. I don't see those drying up in the near future, given the amount we make off the pitch.
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Oh... blame Fergie... seriously... blame fergie?

Remember what happened when he announced it early? Our season starts to crumble, he learnt from that, retired aptly and have his successor in line (only that Moyes isn't living up to expectation)

He's 72, what else can he possibly do?

He left DDG, Rafael, Fabio, Rooney, RvP, Nani, Young and Valencia (not exactly aging, just not performing), Evans, Smailing, Jones

Jones, Evans, Rafael, DDG - as good as a young players you can get
Rooney, RvP - as good as you can get bar messi / Ronaldo
Nani, Young, Valencia - not the best, but given the right coaching they does a job
Carrick - the only recogniseable midfield we have, but Moyes have all summer to address this. He could have bought 1 very good midfield (assuming 30M is his budget), or several cheaper options, he ended up with Fellaini
Chicharito and Welbeck - Not many teams in EPL can boost 2 very good players as back up strikers
Evra - Aging, but with Fabio / Buttner to rotate, can does the job and in no immediate need for replacement

All and all , I can understand if we're 3rd and we can point at lack of funding, and demands 1-2 top class signing to push on, but at this rate we're not better than sunderlan, cardiff, newcastle, spurs at Old Trafford, how is that SAF's fault?
 
Sky1981 said:
Oh... blame Fergie... seriously... blame fergie?

Remember what happened when he announced it early? Our season starts to crumble, he learnt from that, retired aptly and have his successor in line (only that Moyes isn't living up to expectation)

He's 72, what else can he possibly do?

He left DDG, Rafael, Fabio, Rooney, RvP, Nani, Young and Valencia (not exactly aging, just not performing), Evans, Smailing, Jones

Jones, Evans, Rafael, DDG - as good as a young players you can get
Rooney, RvP - as good as you can get bar messi / Ronaldo
Nani, Young, Valencia - not the best, but given the right coaching they does a job
Carrick - the only recogniseable midfield we have, but Moyes have all summer to address this. He could have bought 1 very good midfield (assuming 30M is his budget), or several cheaper options, he ended up with Fellaini
Chicharito and Welbeck - Not many teams in EPL can boost 2 very good players as back up strikers
Evra - Aging, but with Fabio / Buttner to rotate, can does the job and in no immediate need for replacement

All and all , I can understand if we're 3rd and we can point at lack of funding, and demands 1-2 top class signing to push on, but at this rate we're not better than sunderlan, cardiff, newcastle, spurs at Old Trafford, how is that SAF's fault?
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No.

It isn't.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
It's not based on much at all, I think. Just us losing and the players not looking particularly chipper about it. We look lost, as you would when you...er...are a bit lost. It's not the same as being in revolt against your manager - apart from Rio's foolish comment about the team announcements there has been nothing to suggest anything of the sort. Unless you believe Lawrenson's rubbish about RVP, that is.
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It is an assumption that isn't out of the question though. We know footballers can be brats so it doesn't take much to make them upset. Poor performances, new coaches. Questionable manager. Key players (Rio) sooking a little bit and the dressing room could easily become unsettled. Not saying it has but there is always a chance.
 
I've been behind Moyes and given him my support (aside from a few post match rants), however, my support for him is on the slide.
I think he has had long enough in the seat now to get to grips with the players he's got and decide who he doesn't want. I really don't get how the like on Anderson haven't been shipped out and replaced - even if you are giving them away to get them off the wage bill, it just baffles me (Glazernomics I guess).
A competent manager would have been able to turn this shower of shit around to at least have a few more attempts on goal during 90 minutes - they are hardly a shit bunch of players.
I'm starting to question what exactly Moyes wants the team to do, because if we are staring down the barrel of watching poor wingers firing poor cross, after poor cross into an area with just Danny Welbeck stood there, then it's going to be a painful 2014.
Please, please sort this out Moyes. There are many many United fans (probably the majority), who want you to succeed here. But by feck are you making it difficult for yourself! Get in the office this morning and tell Woodward to pull his finger out (and call him a cnut from those on the Caf).
 
I don't think there is any single party to blame. The players aren't performing but nor is the manager. I could list maybe 3 players at best this season who have performed up to expectation (Rooney, Fletcher, Januzaj) and the latter two of those by all accounts we weren't expecting much from this season, which leaves 1 player putting in good performances, and in the summer HE was the one a lot of people wanted rid of (myself included, but that is a different argument).

The biggest mistake for me is that Fergie tried to replace himself with the closest possible character, personality wise. In Moyes we have got a SAF-Lite, if you will. He is not as good as Fergie but he is a man in the same mould. There are several problems with this;

1) our situation now is completely different to when SAF took over all those years ago, meaning what we looked for in a manager should have been different. We don't need a man to build an empire, we have done that, we needed someone capable of replacing the greatest manager in the game, a big personality immune to pressure, who could command the respect of the players instantly. Someone like Mourinho. His job would simply be to come in and steady the ship, it wouldn't matter if he left after a few successful seasons as we could then look at a long term manager without having such a poisoned chalice.

2) related to the above, when does replacing (or trying to) like-for-like ever work? It's the same discussion we have had plenty of times with the likes of Keane, Scholes, Beckham, Cantona to name but a few. You can't replace top talents, they are unique. Instead of going for a watered down version of say, Roy Keane, you try to find another top quality player in their own right, who can fit into the system. This is how teams evolve over time.
With Moyes, we have done the exact opposite and just got the closest thing we could to Fergie, rather than getting a top calibre manager with their own set of skills to bring the team forward. We are all complaining about tactics and how we seem enormously outdated, and we did under Fergie as well, so is it any surprise that Fergie II is adopting the same tactics?


This isn't to absolve the players of any blame, and tbf I'm not blaming Moyes for BEING appointed as United boss. He was, for me, simply the wrong choice, which I thought at the time. It's unfortunate that arguably Fergies legacy after all of his amazing achievements, could be appointing someone who has undone a lot of that success - although it is still early days and I hope Moyes can turn it around, but realistically I don't think he is the right man for the job.
 
marjen said:
Of all the things to criticize him for, that's bog standard diversion tactics. Fergie trotted them out every other week. Move on.
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Move on? :rolleyes:

As I said he has a point, but if he thinks that's going to divert people away from the teams performances he's in cuckoo land. It's sounds like an excuse for the shit we've had to witness this year. The ref didn't have a bad game yesterday.

"It's really terrible. We're actually beginning to laugh at them." Do you think that's a wise thing to say?
 
Getsme said:
Move on? :rolleyes:

As I said he has a point, but if he thinks that's going to divert people away from the teams performances he's in cuckoo land. It's sounds like an excuse for the shit we've had to witness this year. The ref didn't have a bad game yesterday.

"It's really terrible. We're actually beginning to laugh at them." Do you think that's a wise thing to say?
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stop over analyzing everything, you will end up constipated
 
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