Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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They were trying to go through the middle in the first half, and then resorted going on the wing which has been a tried and successful formula over the last 2 decades in the second. It's just not been working this year for multiple reasons.
I dunno I think even in the second half we at least probed the middle a bit. I think it was probably entirely due to Januzaj and Giggs being there rather than any concious effort though.
Steve's gonna see "one hundred new alerts" when he logs back in at this rate.
I didn't even know what to say to that so I left well alone...
That Moyes banner should never have been put up at OT.
I think that the manager does much more than formation and tactics. Training, how he talks with them, speeches, how he reacts after things are all very important. They'll play the game, but if those things aren't right (or aren't suited to their style/capabilities) I don't think that there will be much result.
He isn't incompetent, I grant you that. He maybe is on top 50 managers in the world. And he did a very good job at Everton, for sure. He also doesn't have any experience at this level, which is quite a bit worry. [doing a pimpy metaphore here] There might be a programmer somewhere who is good at his job on a succesful company. But that doesn't mean that he'll be succesful if he is appointed as the CEO of google. The expectations, all the actors, concurrence, pression all are very different.
If a player or two - or five - have no confidence on him, it is their problem. If the entire squad has no confidence on him, I think in that case it is his problem. He has a good CV, but on the other side everyone of those players (except Januzaj, Zaha and Fellaini) have more league medals than Moyes has games won against top 4 teams away (the old top 4). Neither respect nor the trust comes by default. Not saying that here it is the case, but changing the entire staff might have easily meant that the entire training has changed, might mean that the players don't agree and possibly don't enjoy that. Especially if the difficult trainings reports are true. And also the style of play, Everton played a very outdated style, our players won't easy accept that. If that is the case for only a few of them isn't such a problem, but if the majority of the team doesn't trust him, then it is.
You think he doesn't? Its obvious looking at his face that behind closed doors he lets rip.
But its also obvious that most of the players, especially the senior players, couldn't give a monkeys. Frankly, it looks most of the time that they think he's a Fergie-lite who has never won anything and is no position to try and tell experienced winners like themselves how to go about being successful.
There's no real belief in the team, no obvious belief in Moyes and slowly the unity and discipline of the side is disintegrating as Moyes simply lacks the respect to hold it together. Its sad but everything Ferguson created is crumbling before our eyes in a slow-mo car crash and nobody is intervening.
I just want shake him so he wakes the feck up.
Your point is totally irrelevant to my original post altogether. The squad is quality as has been proven by their track record. Who you think is at their peak or not doesn't matter. They've delivered titles and that's enough to prove their quality, not random people on the internets rating them.
Awfully complimentary Hectic. You don't fool me. I know he's you. Or you're him. Whatever.
I agree and understand now. Sorry for my mistakes. Pave over my brain with your enlightened concrete.
On the other side, Rooney started only 22 games on the league last season, Januzaj didn't exist, Vidic was injured for a part of season (as was Rafael for some games). Moral of the story is that injuries exist and have existed all the time. If there is anything true on the reports about his training regime - he admitted that RVP was overtrained and Rooney said that the training was harder than ever - it is possible (though not even near certain) that some of the injuries are part of that. As it might be rushing players from them (RVP). Maybe not. Or not managing rotation well. Maybe not. We can give him the benefit of the doubt. Especially since we don't have more data.
But still, should the injuries of some players (which have happened in the past anyway) be the reason from dropping from first position to midtable? I don't think so. Things are much deeper than that.
If we won the league last year but were shit on other years, you might have had a point. But that wasn't the case. We did well also in other seasons. If the squad was that bad as you are making it out, that wouldn't happen. We got 2.28 points per game on average on last 5 seasons (86.6 per season). At the moment we are on 1.7 per game and on course for 64.6 points per season. A drop of 22 points (24.4 if we consider only last season). Frankly speaking, I don't think that Sir Alex was worthy of 22 points. If he was, we should return those titles for cheating.
I understand that we'll have difficult periods, but the drop from one season to the next with the same squad has been tremendous. It doesn't help that Moyes and Woodward failed miserably in the summer after hyping themselves up only to follow the transfer fiasco with an on-pitch meltdown over six months. He's disappointed in every metric so far with a group of players who are completely capable of getting results. I don't think he should be fired, but he has to show improvement before May to prove he deserves more time. I don't believe in giving him time for the sake of it if he's not improving. The squad needs changing but he had the opportunity in the summer and now in January to make changes. All he has done is make the squad even more mediocre. He has to offer some hope that the slide will stop or a reason to believe in his capabilities as amanager. So far, he's not done that. I, like nearly everyone else on the Caf, didn't want him as manager but want him to succeed.
Yeah fair enough. As I said, I don't necessarily disagree with you. I just think the players need to take some of the responsibility. Obviously the manager's role is more than picking a team and tactics but we don't seem to be questioning the players role at all. Whether they like the training or the style of play is again, their problem, even if it is the whole squad, as the board have decided that Moyes is their Boss.
Like our analogy earlier. If you get a new boss and he changes everything around the onus is on you to adapt, rightly or wrongly because he's the boss. But again that's not even my problem here. If the players were not talented enough to adapt to whatever way Moyes wants to play the game then we would have a problem but we have players talented enough to be beating many of the teams we are failing to beat, even if they are playing in a structure that they are not comfortable in.
Anyway we're going round in circles without ever really disagreeing with each other. I do think Moyes has a lot to answer for but I think the players do too. They can't be blameless in all that's goin on, in my opinion.
For those blaming just the players, remember how many games they have played for us anf the trophies they havr won and compare it to moyes record. People want to changr our entire team all for some deluded concept that it will make us better than other clubs for sticking with a manager.
Good boy. Embrace this pain and burn it as fuel for your journey, administrator of the hearts.
It works both ways. They are also definitely partly to blame precisely because they are all, each and everyone of them, winning players.
I'm going to emo the feck out of this forum don't you worry, we got this.
I just don't understand why some people are so appalled by warranted criticism of David Moyes. People will turn against any and all of our players, but Moyes is immune to criticism. It's almost as if some people think they are supporting Alex Ferguson Football Club rather than Manchester United. Moyes is given a free ride simply because he was chosen by Ferguson, who some preposterously believe is the only voice of the club. Wake up. Ferguson is not a god. His choice is not infallible. Moyes so far has shown virtually nothing promising. He is not taking this football club forward. He is not even offering the fabled and essentially meaningless moniker of "stability." The only thing stable about Moyes is the predictability of suffering defeat at Old Trafford. If Moyes cannot turn things around soon, people must swallow their pride and admit Ferguson was wrong. Football is competitive, there is no room for sentimentality or romanticism. I feel it's obvious Moyes is not the right man for the job. This is not a slight on Moyes. Some of our fans may have an arrogance that this is a special club morally superior to all others. Of course this is laughably wrong, but Manchester United are still one of the biggest clubs in the world and must be competitive in domestic and continental competitions. We cannot settle for mediocrity. If people truly want to show faith in Ferguson, then they would be better advised to want United to maintain the status and success achieved under Ferguson rather than shown blind faith in the man Ferguson chose as his successor.
I think, during this time of incredible negativity, we need to try and maintain some sort of balance/perspective. Thus, I decree that any negative point made about Moyes should be balanaced with a positive point - this will maintain balance with the caf.
So I'm not a fan of the way he uses or conducts substitutions.
I like the way he claps his hands - it looks like a powerful clap.
So I'm not a fan of the way he uses or conducts substitutions.
I like the way he claps his hands - it looks like a powerful clap.
I think he's doing a good job. Moyes in.
No, just because they've done it in the past doesn't mean they're good enough to do it now, what part of PAST THEIR PEAK do you not understand? Steve Bruce won titles in the past, let's get him out of retirement shall we? Having no player at their peak is indicative of a team in transition. When Jose Mourinho left Inter Milan, he left behind a side full of ageing players who had given their all for him and had completely overachieved, sound familiar? Rafael Benitez took over and had them in a similar league position in December that Moyes has us in, in a much weaker league, and despite all the jokes Benitez is a very good manager. They sacked him and they've got even worse since. Ferguson was here for a heck of a lot longer than Mourinho was at Inter, so instead of living in a world of only black and white why don't you examine the players at the manager's disposal, consider how hard it must be to follow a man like Ferguson who was a father figure to many of them, and then rationally deduce that maybe, just maybe, what's happening now isn't all that ridiculous and may not entirely be the fault of David Moyes. That most people on here didn't predict this (some did) doesn't mean it wasn't always going to happen.
If the majority of the players aren't buying into what Moyes wants to do then I'd sooner see them shipped out than him bite the bullet because of it. The fecking players do not dictate to the club.
Don't be silly. They won the title in May. They haven't gone from world beaters to utter dross that quickly. Only one thing has changed since then and it has little to do with the players.
So, we're comparing Moyes with Benitez at inter? Makes a good case for sacking him, that.
So that's 3 defeats in less than a week. Has it ever happened before in the club's long history?
Sounds a good idea. Shipping at-least 13 players (the minimum of majority) because Moyes might turn out to be good sounds such a fantastic idea in both football and more importantly finantial aspects. Players should not dictate the club, idealism should. If tomorrow somewhere on Catalonia a few short players whose surnames start by M, I and X have a quarrel with Tata Martino, the most logical and profitable way of doing things would be to sell them.
If only Barca did the right thing all those years ago and sided with Rijkaard and sold Xavi & co after that season, we'd probably be sitting on at least 5 CL wins by now.
Tell me about it, it's almost like some of these players have lost the only manager they've ever known and are struggling to adapt to a new voice.
As for the second point, it's no good quoting what we did previously, most of the key players of previous years are on the decline, or as in the case of Ferdinand and Evra, completely finished at this level. Valencia is also done at this level, although he was done last year, we just all thought it was poor form. If people looked at this squad without bias they would see what's happening isn't all that surprising. We've also lost Ferguson, something most of these players are taking some time adjusting to, which isn't all that surprising is it? Just because Everton can carry on without Moyes doesn't mean it will be as easy here, what Ferguson did was truly unique and as such you would think the repercussions of him no longer being manager would be unique too.
This thread has gone a bit mad. I blame it on OMGstopMoyes4Eva.
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