Moyes So Far!

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Sir Matt said:
:lol: ******* alert!

I think most fans are upset, not because we won't win any trophies this season, but because we aren't even competitive or entertaining. Dire football, dire results. When Sir Matt Busby was manager, he reminded the players regularly that the people who filled Old Trafford worked all week looking forward to see United play on Saturday. He also reminded them that those people deserved to be entertained and demanded entertaining football. It so happened that his entertaining football also led to trophies as well. Fans could take poor results if the football were entertaining, but it has been far, far from it. For all the complaints about United last season, the team were always a threat to put on a show. Under moyes, it's been nothing but awful football and awful results. Sir Matt Busby didn't expect people to spend their weekends watching tumescent football out of some masochistic delight in proving oneself to be a "True United Supporter™." Moyes' football has been unimaginative, overly cautious, and ineffective.

Football was, and is, an escape for people around the world from their everyday life. You can't expect people to be happy with the football, in style or results, United have produced this season. Excuses can be made about the squad that was good enough last year but suddenly not this year, but it comes down to the manager. It's his job to produce results as well as entertaining football. Moyes has done neither.
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:devil: fantastic post
 
The Swansea match looms gigantic. If we lose, and with Chelsea away and Ole's Cardiff to follow, Moyes desparately needs a win to lower the temperature about his job.
 
Hectic said:
You're still missing my point. I agree with all of that and doubt we will finish outside of Top 7. I'm saying in a worst case scenario where we did fail very hard and finished extremely low, they would sack him and not take the risk of another season with major losses. This says he doesn't have a magical three year period of comfort just because Fergie is there.
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Okay, well I reckon it'd take an absolute disastrous end to the season for him to be sacked now. Even a poor end to the season and he'll survive, I reckon.
 
Sir Matt said:
Moyes' football has been unimaginative, overly cautious, and ineffective.
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Funnily enough, that's exactly how I'd describe a group of our first-choice regulars, including Saint Carrick. Still, that Moyes, eh?
 
Revan said:
To be fair Pexbo, if we don't see any improvement from now on 'till the end of the season and we finish somewhere on the midtable, continuing with him is asking for trouble (choosing him from the a billion available managers was asking for trouble too, but this would be another level). Idealism is a great thing, but not that great if you suffer from it. At times, admitting that you made a mistake is better than continue doing it.
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I fully agree, I was being sarcastic.
 
Kid Cunto said:
Okay, well I reckon it'd take an absolute disastrous end to the season for him to be sacked now. Even a poor end to the season and he'll survive, I reckon.
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Finally! That was precisely my point, I agree it would have to be a truly disastrous season to happen, but just by that being the case it shows he isn't immortal purely because Fergie backs him, it also depends on where he finishes. I reckon they'd still keep him in even if he finished Top 10ish or around there. After 15th they'd probably get Phelan to stronghold him out.
 
Kid Cunto said:
The Glazer's are business minded people and have left the footballing decisions to others here. Surely they know the club wouldn't survive should they remove the footballing men in control of the club?
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Yes, but that worked. If that will stop working, I don't see them letting the same people doing the football decisions.

If Moyes get sacked, I sincerely hope that neither Sir Alex nor Sir Bobby will have any say on who will be the next manager of us. From the beginning I thought that the idea of Sir Alex choosing his replacement was doomed to fail. As it was the idea of him continuing being at United board. It is a model that usually doesn't work and to make things even worse, we did the same thing when Busby retired half a century ago.
 
Sir Matt said:
:lol: ******* alert!

I think most fans are upset, not because we won't win any trophies this season, but because we aren't even competitive or entertaining. Dire football, dire results. When Sir Matt Busby was manager, he reminded the players regularly that the people who filled Old Trafford worked all week looking forward to see United play on Saturday. He also reminded them that those people deserved to be entertained and demanded entertaining football. It so happened that his entertaining football also led to trophies as well. Fans could take poor results if the football were entertaining, but it has been far, far from it. For all the complaints about United last season, the team were always a threat to put on a show. Under moyes, it's been nothing but awful football and awful results. Sir Matt Busby didn't expect people to spend their weekends watching tumescent football out of some masochistic delight in proving oneself to be a "True United Supporter™." Moyes' football has been unimaginative, overly cautious, and ineffective.

Football was, and is, an escape for people around the world from their everyday life. You can't expect people to be happy with the football, in style or results, United have produced this season. Excuses can be made about the squad that was good enough last year but suddenly not this year, but it comes down to the manager. It's his job to produce results as well as entertaining football. Moyes has done neither.
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Good post, I'm tired of hearing of some fans are spoilt because they want their team to actually play good, decent football. Facts remain we clearly won't be winning anything this year but is it too much to ask that we play some attractive football instead.
 
SteveJ said:
Funnily enough, that's exactly how I'd describe a group of our first-choice regulars, including Saint Carrick. Still, that Moyes, eh?
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Steve, this viewpoint is bizarre because we know that these players are capable of much, much better. They've done a lot for us in the past and while the likes of Giggs and Ferdinand might be over the hill, the vast majority of the underperformers aren't that old that their decline would be understandable.

On the other hand, Moyes has so far proven nothing. All we know that his first six months in the job were disastrous. We don't know if he's capable of any better so it's quite obvious and logical that he's getting the blame for our monumental underachievement because we know the players are better than this.
 
Cal? said:
We all hope for 6 points, 1 is more realistic right now.

Beat Mourinho's unbeaten PL home record? You must be having a laugh. :(
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We've been involved in plenty of those sorts of record being broken this season already! Lets make it one more! :D

There's no doubt Moyes needs to get things going and will take plenty of flack for the way things are going. Deservedly so.

But, the players should be taking at least an equal amount of the blame. The quality of our play, regardless of formations, regardless of tactics, the quality of our basic football is awful at the moment. We can make excuses for them all we want. We can say they don't respect the manager (Well they fecking should, he's their boss), we can say the tactics are negative, we can say all we want but at the end of the day we have better footballers than Sunderland. They are pathetic this year and will get relegated.

feck sake, we should be able to beat them without a fecking manager. I'm not absolving Moyes of all the blame here, but these players won a league title at a canter last year. They need to step up to the plate and start winning some games.
 
Sultan said:
There's a saying that a man's true character is revealed in defeat.
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And? My point is that MUFC is under attack. And for United to survive it's imperative that we stay successful. I honestly believe that it's a question of life and death.
 
Hectic said:
Finally! That was precisely my point, I agree it would have to be a truly disastrous season to happen, but just by that being the case it shows he isn't immortal purely because Fergie backs him, it also depends on where he finishes. I reckon they'd still keep him in even if he finished Top 10ish or around there. After 15th I doubt they'd consider the risk.
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Sorry, Hectic. So many points coming from so many directions tonight for me. :lol:
One positive from this mess, the football forum has been quite good for debate.
 
Kid Cunto said:
The Glazer's are business minded people and have left the footballing decisions to others here. Surely they know the club wouldn't survive should they remove the footballing men in control of the club?
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If they have any business sense, they should ask Sir Alex to name his price for the remainder of the season.
 
SteveJ said:
Funnily enough, that's exactly how I'd describe a group of our first-choice regulars, including Saint Carrick. Still, that Moyes, eh?
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There is only a variable that has changed from last year Steve. Carrick was the best central midfielder in the lague last season by a country mile, it is surely something more than just not bothering to play for being so useless. We don't know what they do in training (well we see some reports now and then) but surely something is wrong if only 2 players (Rooney and Adnan) are underperforming. It wouldn't be a risky bet to say that it is very related to the manager.
 
Revan said:
Yes, but that worked. If that will stop working, I don't see them letting the same people doing the football decisions.

If Moyes get sacked, I sincerely hope that neither Sir Alex nor Sir Bobby will have any say on who will be the next manager of us. From the beginning I thought that the idea of Sir Alex choosing his replacement was doomed to fail. As it was the idea of him continuing being at United board. It is a model that usually doesn't work and to make things even worse, we did the same thing when Busby retired half a century ago.
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It'd be likely that Ferguson would not be involved in picking the next manager.
 
Kid Cunto said:
Sorry, Hectic. So many points coming from so many directions tonight for me. :lol:
One positive from this mess, the football forum has been quite good for debate.
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It's definitely given us a lot more to talk about and despite some nonsense, it's really not been that bad a reaction so far, in fact quite a sensible one considering what we are facing and how most of us have never seen United this low in our entire lives.
 
RexHamilton said:
We've been involved in plenty of those sorts of record being broken this season already! Lets make it one more! :D

There's no doubt Moyes needs to get things going and will take plenty of flack for the way things are going. Deservedly so.

But, the players should be taking at least an equal amount of the blame. The quality of our play, regardless of formations, regardless of tactics, the quality of our basic football is awful at the moment. We can make excuses for them all we want. We can say they don't respect the manager (Well they fecking should, he's their boss), we can say the tactics are negative, we can say all we want but at the end of the day we have better footballers than Sunderland. They are pathetic this year and will get relegated.

feck sake, we should be able to beat them without a fecking manager. I'm not absolving Moyes of all the blame here, but these players won a league title at a canter last year. They need to step up to the plate and start winning some games.
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The way it's going, our biggest away defeat in the PL ever looks more likely in that game... and I remember we lost 5-0 there once. :(
 
amolbhatia100 said:
You'll see much better versions of these players when they get managed properly.
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Strange, we didn't see much better versions of Cleverley, Valencia, Welbeck, Young, Nani and Rooney last year did we? And Evra and Ferdinand have been in gradual decline for years, Vidic may never be the same due to injuries, and Carrick is 32 year old and returning from an achilles problem. I had a fight with Pogue in September about this squad, he said it wasn't good enough, it's key players were finished and we'd be in a big fight for top four, I said we'd get another year out of them, Fergie picked the perfect time to leave and we'd challenge for the title. Pogue was absolutely bang on, and I was wrong. If you objectively go through this squad there are question marks over every single one of them except De Gea, Evans, Jones, Smalling, Rafael and Rooney.
 
Sir Matt said:
:lol: ******* alert!

I think most fans are upset, not because we won't win any trophies this season, but because we aren't even competitive or entertaining. Dire football, dire results. When Sir Matt Busby was manager, he reminded the players regularly that the people who filled Old Trafford worked all week looking forward to see United play on Saturday. He also reminded them that those people deserved to be entertained and demanded entertaining football. It so happened that his entertaining football also led to trophies as well. Fans could take poor results if the football were entertaining, but it has been far, far from it. For all the complaints about United last season, the team were always a threat to put on a show. Under moyes, it's been nothing but awful football and awful results. Sir Matt Busby didn't expect people to spend their weekends watching tumescent football out of some masochistic delight in proving oneself to be a "True United Supporter™." Moyes' football has been unimaginative, overly cautious, and ineffective.

Football was, and is, an escape for people around the world from their everyday life. You can't expect people to be happy with the football, in style or results, United have produced this season. Excuses can be made about the squad that was good enough last year but suddenly not this year, but it comes down to the manager. It's his job to produce results as well as entertaining football. Moyes has done neither.
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Whilst I don't disagree but since we've had three decades of success...are a couple of poor seasons really that difficult to stomach? Surely after all the highs we've had..what's wrong with having to deal with a few lows? I love watching entertaining football. I love watching us win. But these lows are a part and parcel of the game...perhaps even life. As for Moyes, I still think he needs a good summer in the transfer market, so for one more season at least...I'm in the 'stick' camp. Besides maybe the masochist in me is enjoying it all...
 
RexHamilton said:
feck sake, we should be able to beat them without a fecking manager. I'm not absolving Moyes of all the blame here, but these players won a league title at a canter last year. They need to step up to the plate and start winning some games.
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Unfortunately it doesn't work this way.

Barca under Riijkard on 2007-2008 (why by the way was a very good manager that won a lot of stuff and played very exciting) got 67 points (+33 GD) and won a grand total of zero trophies.

Barca under Pep on 2008-2009 got 87 points (+70 GD) and won 6 trophies despite losing their best 2 players of their last regime.

Go look at Inter, they won the treble and next season they looked painful. If the manager is not the right one, players will underachieve. We can blame them as much as you want but the same thing happens all the time. If you give a CEO to some workers who don't agree with him and are asked to do things they haven't done before, surely they will not work that well.
 
mickeza said:
Strange, we didn't see much better versions of Cleverley, Valencia, Welbeck, Young, Nani and Rooney last year did we? And Evra and Ferdinand have been in gradual decline for years, Vidic may never be the same due to injuries, and Carrick is 32 year old and returning from an achilles problem. I had a fight with Pogue in September about this squad, he said it wasn't good enough, it's key players were finished and we'd be in a big fight for top four, I said we'd get another year out of them, Fergie picked the perfect time to leave and we'd challenge for the title. Pogue was absolutely bang on, and I was wrong. If you objectively go through this squad there are question marks over every single one of them except De Gea, Evans, Jones, Smalling, Rafael and Rooney.
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Yeah, so very strange that we won the title more comfortably last season than those 4 prior wins (in 7 years).
 
Revan said:
Unfortunately it doesn't work this way.

Barca under Riijkard on 2007-2008 (why by the way was a very good manager that won a lot of stuff and played very exciting) got 67 points (+33 GD) and won a grand total of zero trophies.

Barca under Pep on 2008-2009 got 87 points (+70 GD) and won 6 trophies despite losing their best 2 players of their last regime.

Go look at Inter, they won the treble and next season they looked painful. If the manager is not the right one, players will underachieve. We can blame them as much as you want but the same thing happens all the time. If you give a CEO to some workers who don't agree with him and are asked to do things they haven't done before, surely they will not work that well.
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Exactly.

I wonder what would happened if Barcelona sided with rijkaard and got rid of xavi, iniesta and co due to their shit season.

We'd probably have two more champions leagues that's what :(
 
Revan said:
Unfortunately it doesn't work this way.

Barca under Riijkard on 2007-2008 (why by the way was a very good manager that won a lot of stuff and played very exciting) got 67 points (+33 GD) and won a grand total of zero trophies.

Barca under Pep on 2008-2009 got 87 points (+70 GD) and won 6 trophies despite losing their best 2 players of their last regime.

Go look at Inter, they won the treble and next season they looked painful. If the manager is not the right one, players will underachieve. We can blame them as much as you want but the same thing happens all the time. If you give a CEO to some workers who don't agree with him and are asked to do things they haven't done before, surely they will not work that well.
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As I said, Moyes isn't blameless but neither are the players. They are some world class players in our squad all being paid a hefty sum each week to deliver on the pitch. If you gave a CEO to some workers who don't agree with him and are asked to do things they haven't done before then it's up to them as employees to adapt and do their job to the best of their ability.
 
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