It's very odd though, you can't say they play like a side not playing for their manager can you? The only time I've felt that might be the case was the Newcastle game where they offered no response at all, but recently we have been trying. Look at Vidic when he scores his goal, his face is mental, he just starts screaming at himself. At the end tonight everyone was steaming into the box, Rafael was running around like a Fabio, Cleverley was so frustrated giving the ball away I thought he was going to cry, Valencia ran about a mile to retrieve the ball from the crowd and save time, they were definitely giving their all. However, if it's not effort then that leaves talent, and that can't be true either, the vast majority (our wingers excepted) are bloody good players. Basically I haven't got a clue what's going on. The only explanation I can see is that a many of these players have been in gradual decline in recent years and this season is a season too far for them. It's either that or Moyes is a truly shit manager, but we know he isn't despite what his critics on here want us to believe.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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It's very odd though, you can't say they play like a side not playing for their manager can you? The only time I've felt that might be the case was the Newcastle game where they offered no response at all, but recently we have been trying. Look at Vidic when he scores his goal, his face is mental, he just starts screaming at himself. At the end tonight everyone was steaming into the box, Rafael was running around like a Fabio, Cleverley was so frustrated giving the ball away I thought he was going to cry, Valencia ran about a mile to retrieve the ball from the crowd and save time, they were definitely giving their all. However, if it's not effort then that leaves talent, and that can't be true either, the vast majority (our wingers excepted) are bloody good players. Basically I haven't got a clue what's going on. The only explanation I can see is that a many of these players have been in gradual decline in recent years and this season is a season too far for them. It's either that or Moyes is a truly shit manager, but we know he isn't despite what his critics on here want us to believe.
This is true.
Any other club and he would be out of a job in the morning.
Quite often I find that to be one of those media terms used as a catch all when things aren't going well.
It's two pretty basic things for me:
1. Moyes' performance has been poor so far.
2. So has that of his players.
Beyond that I don't think it's especially complicated. Players can run around and looked pissed off or whatever but it's about putting in performances when it matters. For all of Moyes' faults he's not the reason players can't make simple five yard passes, or don't track their runners, or struggle to do any number of other basics of the game.
I'm taking a night off tonight, pal.
I'm watching 'The Sting' now instead, even though the parallels are eerie. The year it won the Oscar, United were relegated. Great.
Well go and support "any other club" then.
Sir Bobby is going to say something there but he's just lost for words.
Yep, both he and fergie look so despondent
Yes, every club gets bad decisions, and yes every club complains about them. Stop acting the dick.
I have been in the camp of 'give him time', but as I argued a few months ago, I do not support the idea of him having a free pass for a season. While I agree that the end of next season will be the best time to assess, we surely cannot say that there is no possible standard that is deemed unacceptable for him THIS season.
It's all well and good saying we are in transition, but there muat be a means of measuring Moyes' work. There must be a point that could result in him getting the chop, and whatever that point is, he must be close. The last window was a shambles. This window of course will be difficult to get the players, but we had every opportunity last summer. The player he did actually purchase is also bloody crap, which doesn't encourage me about what he will do next.
I will continue to back him for now, but much like a large portion of our recent signings, I was extremely underwhelmed when hw was recruited. I cannot stress how much this 'United Way' bollocks of trying to be different to every other top club stuff grates me. The man who succeeded him at Everton did not declare he needed a year to loom at his squad, he came in with ideas and quickly got the players in that he needed. And he was also joining a club that had one manager for ages.
Still, with every game I see at the moment, my view is increasingly that Fergie should take most of the blame for the state of the squad. He bet big on a lot of mediocrity, and vehemently insisted average players were top class, and then declared he had left Moyes a perfect squad.
It's all well and good saying we are in transition, but there muat be a means of measuring Moyes' work. There must be a point that could result in him getting the chop, and whatever that point is, he must be close. The last window was a shambles. This window of course will be difficult to get the players, but we had every opportunity last summer. The player he did actually purchase is also bloody crap, which doesn't encourage me about what he will do next.
I will continue to back him for now, but much like a large portion of our recent signings, I was extremely underwhelmed when hw was recruited. I cannot stress how much this 'United Way' bollocks of trying to be different to every other top club stuff grates me. The man who succeeded him at Everton did not declare he needed a year to loom at his squad, he came in with ideas and quickly got the players in that he needed. And he was also joining a club that had one manager for ages.
Still, with every game I see at the moment, my view is increasingly that Fergie should take most of the blame for the state of the squad. He bet big on a lot of mediocrity, and vehemently insisted average players were top class, and then declared he had left Moyes a perfect squad.
That'll be one moment we'll look back on as a defining moment in Moyes' career one way or another. Who am I kidding? It's only going one way.
Thanks for making me laugh.
I think you may have misunderstood what I was doing there.
If he was at another club he would have been sacked by now.
It looked like SAF said 'what can you do'? or something along those lines.
It's great taking that position and all but we really don't know if it's the right one.
It all well and good supporting a manager 100% and giving him time if he is the right man for the job but if he isn't, which it is looking increasingly more like he isn't with every passing game, then you are just making things worse and worse for the club and potentially doing some serious, serious damage which could take decades to fix.
He won't be sacked.
With the exception of the first twenty odd minutes we did pass the ball well though, I actually think we've been keeping the ball rather well over the last two months, Moyes has stopped criticising our ball retention in interviews for a reason. It's just we don't do anything penetrative with it at all. We're so one dimensional and devoid of ideas, except for a set piece I never think we look like scoring, and that must be tactical more than anything. The fact we keep conceding soft goals isn't tactical though, that's on the players, and it keeps happening when we're seemingly in control of games, it's bizarre.
That's why I was asking the question - the original post may have been meant in one of two very different ways. Though I've just realised you didn't do the original post. So now I'm just more confused.
I don't think our board is that different to the board of any other big club. It's just that they've never had to make that decision before. But given the right conditions (and I think we're very close to being in them), they will sack Moyes just as any other big club would.
It's a stupid, bitter view. Really, we're about 35917 points behind you, give this refereeing stuff a rest. You no longer need excuses. Accept that yes, officials sometimes get things wrong against United. Calm your RAWK-addled mind and you'll realise it was always thus. I can list you examples if you wish.
Yes we do - it's what keeps us apart form Chelsea and City, and that makes it right.
That's one of the dumbest things I've ever read. Why would anybody not support a manager if he was doing well? The whole "stand by the manager" thing is only relevant if we are struggling.
As long as Sir Alex is there he won't be sacked for a few years at least. Be it a hindrance or not. Sir Alex is stubborn, it will take a lot before he'd admit being wrong in appointing Moyes.
I hope not. I was just copying Pexbo to explain to @Sir A1ex what his point was.
So it's a moral stand point?
We're a football club, not a charity. People pay their money to the club in various ways to see trophies won, not to pay for Moyes' welfare.
Currently, that stand point is defintely keeping us apart from City and Chelsea. 9 and 10 points to be exact.
Sir Alex doesn't own a controlling interest of United, if the Glazers are sufficiently worried about their investment, he's gone.
He'll get banned for the critics against officials. 'Having to play against them' is something that even SAF would have probably be afraid of saying.
Moyes is the culprit.....
Stop blaming the players - they are just implements that should be taken care of to get tasks done with perfection. Fergie worked well with these implements by oiling them regularly, giving them enough rest through systematic rotation & tactical knowledge to know which tool to use at what time.....
Moyes is doing the opposite. He's frozen some players & he's overusing some. At the rate he's using some members of the starting team tonight, i won't be surprised if they start popping their hamstrings again. The ones he's not using are getting rustier by the minute to the point that they fail to deliver when required in emergency cases.
I dunno about you but Moyes is the worst man manager in the world. Even after Sunderland went one goal ahead, there was enough firepower on the bench to swing the game our way. He waited until 84th minute to get Hernandez on. His first sub was Fletcher & we were chasing a game. Is that the hallmark of a serious manager? Moyes has more electrons than protons, he's extremely negative.
There speaks a true spoilt fan. There's a lot more to our football club than whether we win a trophy every season. I for one would rather have a fallow year or two than turn into City. It's not about charity at all, it's about the reasons I love the club, it's what makes us great. Sadly 90% of our global fan base probably don't agree with me.
Doing well and 'right man for the job' are two different things.
With Steve Round and Gail Platt on the touchline???
Christ on a bike I don't know which would be worse right now
I'm yet to blame Sir Alex for anything, and he is in no way responsible for Moyes' failings as a coach or the current state of things. He did, absolutely in my mind, leave Moyes a great squad that needed a left back and a facelift in midfield before it was ready to challenge on all fronts again. Nothing has changed my mind. I believe in the lads.
However, I do think both Ferguson and Charlton are partly to blame for this arrogant 'United way" mantra whereby they just expected everything to fall into place. As if we were big, wise and holy enough to go out there and appoint any Tom, Dick or Harry because United can do such a retro thing. United value longevity. We value 'value in the market' but only when it suits us. No feck was given when we were splurging unseen money on defenders like Ferdinand. It was so very conveniently 'United' of them to resist the bravado of Mourinho or the flashiness of the new, continental men on the scene like Klopp and instead appoint a Scottish man who is apparently "cut from the same cloth." I'm not a fan of this attitude and it resembles the way the Scouse carry on about such things.
Would it really have been so bad to go out there and appoint the best, most decorated, most obvious manager for the job? Charlton can shake his head all he likes, but he's got a part in all of this, and there's people on that board that allowed a situation to transpire whereby our manager and chief executive left in the same Summer, the employing of a bloke who seems to have had next to no idea of how to conduct the madness of the transfer world, topped off with an unproven manager who also, understandably, had next to no clue about the gravity of the job he was getting. It's fecking madness that we presided over the situation so badly.
And for what it's worth, Sir Alex should get no stick for retiring when he did. He did it for his family, which is way above the importance of a stupid game.
Sir Alex is just one man. He's not omnipotent and all-powerful.
If we lose to Swansea on Saturday I can't see Moyes survive. Especially with Chelsea away coming up.
I hate feeling so devoid of any positivity. I really don't mind us losing. I don't like it, but I can live with it. But it's hard to live with us actually being embarrassing - even a steady decline would be better than this. But as current league champions it's humiliating.
I don't know if it's David Moyes fault, or the players fault, or the Glazer's fault, or Fergie's fault. Or a mix of the lot.
Giggs and Moyes both think we played well tonight, and it was obviously all the fault of the officials. Brave face? I hope so.
I don't know if it's David Moyes fault, or the players fault, or the Glazer's fault, or Fergie's fault. Or a mix of the lot.
Giggs and Moyes both think we played well tonight, and it was obviously all the fault of the officials. Brave face? I hope so.
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