Needs to grow some balls. If players aren't performing then get rid and bring someone else in.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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I feel sorry for him as he's had no luck whatsoever and the players are letting him down badly. Whoever followed Fergie was ALWAYS going to be in for a world of hurt to be honest considering the length of time he was there, the nature of the job and the history of the Club and so on.
A part of me though can't help but put 100% of the blame on him though, I know that's probably wrong but I'm not totally sure why? I'm sure there are many on here who feel like that.
I wasn't one who advocated his appointment as I wanted Solskjaer but for all we know we may have been in a worse position than we are now. I don't want to see him get the sack (which is unlikely I feel) or lose the fanbase or even worse the players' trust and I want him to succeed badly but I'm 50/50 at the moment as to whether he's the right man for the job and whether he can turn it around and get us playing like our oldselves.
A part of me though can't help but put 100% of the blame on him though, I know that's probably wrong but I'm not totally sure why? I'm sure there are many on here who feel like that.
I wasn't one who advocated his appointment as I wanted Solskjaer but for all we know we may have been in a worse position than we are now. I don't want to see him get the sack (which is unlikely I feel) or lose the fanbase or even worse the players' trust and I want him to succeed badly but I'm 50/50 at the moment as to whether he's the right man for the job and whether he can turn it around and get us playing like our oldselves.
He's going nowhere though because the club have made this big stance about 'stability' and 'longevity' all that sentimental stuff that is nice but doesn't win football matches. And that 6 year deal which we all know was bat shit crazy. They will look really stupid if they change their mind after 6 months, Fergie will look stupid. We have to get used to it, he's here to stay for a long time and that is regardless of the results on the pitch right now.
A friend pointed out that Sir Alex wasn't always the imposing figure on the touch line. Perhaps we'll see Moyes transform as time progresses...maybe Fergie sees 3 years down the road instead of just 3 months...
I've always had faith in Sir Alex.
I've always had faith in Sir Alex.
Have you seen their team? They don't invest anything more in the team (mainly because Berlusconi has to pay for his lawyers and his divorce) and they are pretty much in the position that they should be with that team. Allegri showed in the past that he is capable of winning the title if he has a good squad.
I really doubt it. Obviously there's a point where they would completely throw that out of the window, it just depends what that point is for them.
For the first time ever, I'm left to hoping the Glazers intervene on the footballing side.
To be fair, we don't have any idea what will happen. We can assume that this is SAF/SBC opinion but we don't know what Glazers think which might be the most important variable. They let the people run the football aspect of the club and were succesful on that, but if there is a lack of success, there is nothing to suggest that they will care of what SAF thinks.
Indeed there will be a point. But with Ferguson and Charlton still on the board, I get the feeling one season of missing out on the top 4 will not be enough to see him sacked, rightly or wrongly. The problem is Ferguson will always look back on what happened to him in his early years, and that, while he still has confidence in Moyes, will see him back Moyes.
I think they will not intervene unless inside OT itself the tide significantly changes on Moyes. If the fans turn on Moyes the glazers may see it as an opportunity to mend some bridges. But it will impact others. It'll be a tough balance. One thing for sure is Moyes will get significantly longer than 99% of clubs our size. Just how long that is? No one knows. I would say end of next season even if we finish outside of top 4, rightly it wrongly.
I just don't see it, they've made such a song and dance about the stability factor that I don't see them acting on it whatever happens for the next few years.
Who would even make that decision, do we even know? Woodward? Joel and Avram are the joint chairmen aren't they? I don't believe he's going anywhere without Fergie and Sir Bobby's say so and you know Fergie, he will never admit he is wrong.
The only way I see something happening is if he loses the dressing room completely.
Yeah that could be the case or maybe they think one season regardless of Top 4 isn't enough to sack him, but I'm sure we won't honour out anywhere near a 6 year contract if we go another season with these results.
think at least two season if he does not qualify for CL and no trophies. But not afterwards. Anyways by that time Ole and Gary Neville will be ready
SAF, and the board (it wasn't a decision made by one individual, whatever people try and spin), saw the traits that they think suited the manager of Man Utd in Moyes. I think those are fairly obvious, but so far it hasn't worked out how any of them would have envisaged.
I think the key to it all is what we don't see i.e. the work at Carrington and his relationship with the players etc. If those are strong and it's just a case of time being needed, then there are enough good football people around to appreciate that and the owners have seen the value of continuity. If it's not all rosy there then there may be hard decisions to make.
I hope so. I've backed Moyes from the go and think he could be the man in the long run. I'm content to let him get away with this season but next season and the summer window in particular I think changes and development would be needed.
And if I'm saying I'll lose faith in Moyes if results don't turn next year, I'm sure 95% of United fans will have long since convinced themselves he needs to go!!
think at least two season if he does not qualify for CL and no trophies. But not afterwards. Anyways by that time Ole and Gary Neville will be ready
2 seasons without the CL I wonder how many of De Gea, Rooney, RVP, Januzaj & co will still be around.
Glazers must have some sort of time line in place for Moyes, as long as he's on target he won't be going anytime soon. No one knows what is expected of him for all we know the Glazers could be over the moon with him.
Well, a year will be at-least twice as much as in any other club of our size. He would have been gone for sure in any of Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, Chelsea, City, Liverpool, Spurs, Juve, Inter (don't know about Arsenal and Milan because they haven't been in this place since I watch football).
I agree that he will get the sack on summer of 2015 if things don't get improved. Personally I think that if we finsih outside of top 4, he should be sacked but the people who are in charge likely have different opinions with all their longivity talks. I don't think that this will matter at all if we can't manage to finish on top 4 in both this and next season (and rightly so). Just for this year, I think that Glazers might be patient though there isn't any guarantee about it. If I was Moyes I would likely be very scared of losing the job, especially considering that there isn't any chance in hell that he'll ever get any similar job to this in the future if he bottles this.
Indeed behind the scenes is important - ultimately that is what saved Ferguson all those years ago.
In terms of how Moyes was appointed, you'd be misguided if you think SAF and Charlton had a material influence in bringing Moyes here. I imagine the way it worked was Charlton and SAF presented Moyes as an option and the other directors and the Glazers had enough faith in them to agree.
You guys need to remeber that Fergie was meant to build a club from a scratch. What Moyes is asked to is to maintain certain levels of perfomance and rebuild the team. He wont be given more than two seasons.
I think even they have a limit. I'd like to think Fergie wouldn't put his pride before the club. He's admitted when he's got things wrong in the past so I'm confident that when it comes (January 20th) the right decision will be made.
They don't have the 13th worse team in the league. Only Juventus have an obviously far superior squad than they do. There are better teams on paper but not that many.
Unless they are on drugs they won't be over the moon with him. There are reports that the club has lost 220m on value already (which means something if they plan to sell the club) and they'll lose at-least 30m on cash if we don't qualify for UCL. At the end of the day, all it matters to them is money. I doubt that they are some types of idealists who cares about how managers should get a fair chance.
We do know the expectations as they are included in the financial returns announced to the stock exchange. This season's official expectations are: "Finishing third in the FA Premier League and reaching the quarter-finals of the Champions League and the domestic cups."
think at least two season if he does not qualify for CL and no trophies. But not afterwards. Anyways by that time Ole and Gary Neville will be ready
Haha. Two seasons... Ones bad enough. We don't want to never return to the top of the league.
They aren't the 13 worth team in the league, for sure but they are at the moment a top 6 - top 10 team. Juve, Roma, Napoli, Inter and Fiorentina all have better squads than them.
Well one of those things aren't happening for sure. What I am trying to say is maybe the Glazers are more forgiving and have lower expectations than the supporters.
SAF and Moyes' early days in charge are in no way comparable IMO, so I'd hope that he doesn't base any decisions on that. Moyes has a blend of richly decorated experience and young players that have already won a couple of PL titles. SAF had anything but that.
As I've said countless times I know the actual situations are very different from a footballing perspective. But remember SAF had numerous years to turn it around and it did take him numerous years. Add to that the expectation was nowhere near as high as it is for Moyes. We aren't talking about giving Moyes 5 years Fergie had to win his first league trophy.
Anyway yes, the two situations are different. But I'm thinking at it from a different angle. That Ferguson will remember how hard he found it. People seem to think Ferguson is a rock and always was. Yes once he built the club and had enough success to not fear anything he was. But when he joined he was a human being who felt pressure and showed it too, just like Moyes. He is very different to the SAF we now remember. And he himself will remember that. He will remember how people gave him time to shine. And I'm sure that is what will convince him to stick with Moyes.
That, and he is the biggest advocate of longevity and stability.
I can't get over the business or footballing reasons why club officials decided to give him a 6 year contract. He was hardly Messi or Ronaldo who would be poached by a superior club. I'd have given a shorter contract with an option to renew for both parties. No wonder football is in such perilous financial situation.
Agreed. I guess it was a statement of intent about building stability and longevity but given the mockery Newcastle got for giving Pardew a seven year contract it is odd that United almost matched that.
I read somewhere United's valuation has gone down by about 200 Million since the start of the season. It's in their interest to get the the team back on top with heavy investment on the team before investors and companies get cold feet, and shares tumble further.
As devil's advocate, Moyes also inherited a squad, a club, in fact, that was utterly based around Fergie. They had never known anything but stability. And now they're suddenly thrust into a lot of change with a new manager who doesn't know the players or what makes them tick. Trying to establish that knowledge and rapport with the players and staff was always going to take time. Quite honestly for all of Moyes' mistakes I feel he's been massively let down by the players. For all the statement "they're the league champions" is levelled at Moyes it rarely seems to be cast in the players' direction. They're getting a free pass at the moment but some of them look to have allowed their standards to drop, IMO.
They don't have to worry that much about investors. They only floated 10% of the company's stock and they have really lousy voting rights on top.
I think it was a message to everyone, including the players, that Moyes is here for the long term. I'm fairly sure there'll be some clause in it that should they sack Moyes he only gets a two year payout or something, like the one that's in Pardew's contract.
Garry Neville once wrote that United would rather sack all players than a manger(cant remeberthe exact wording). In my opinion the 6 year contract was signed to show the big egos in the dressig room who the main man is.
Im sure that some/most players werent convinced Moyes was the right man. I think thats part of the reason of underperforming United. Players dont want to die for Moyes....
So the 6 year conctract is a message to players. Accept Moyes or die.
Having said.that...,im sure its.not as easy...there.must be some conditions or gentelmans agreement to terminate it.
To prove a point that we are bigger than others? Feck knows, it was the only more retarded decision we could have make except hiring Moyes himself. There was zero chance that someone would come and steal Moyes from us. I only hope that there is a clause there in case we decide to sign him (well, even if there isn't usually this works until the manager gets another job).
I think it was a statement of intent and support rather than any sort of attempt to tie him down. I'd bet everything I have that there are a few break clauses in there which allow the club to get rid of him for a set fee (the standard seems to be approx. a year gross, often to be paid either in part if he gets another job and there's a shortfall between his new salary and old or in full if he doesn't work for the duration of the year).
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