Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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I'm not sure how closely correlated the share price is to the club's results tbh. From memory the share price only rose by 1-2% when United won the league last season and only fell by about 5% following the SAF announcement- a lot of people, myself included, thought it would fall by around 20% on that news.
The valuation had just gotten a bit full- am sure it was trading on a price to earnings ratio of over 30x which is crazy for such a mature company.
Good analysis by our Sphaero
He needed time, and still does. He has suffered some bad luck, and some terrible player performances, but it is at this stage you expect us to kick on. Team moral is at an all time low, and right now even Moyes getting the boot solves nothing, as we do have problems and lack depth in areas of our squad. I'm indifferent right now, as I see no real solution to any of our problems.
It is all down to pressure now, and it is going to boil down to who cracks first. Fans are fickle, boo one minute and yelp the next so I don't expect that to make the Glazers do anything hasty. After all glazers are used to the hatred at this stage.
It is all down to pressure now, and it is going to boil down to who cracks first. Fans are fickle, boo one minute and yelp the next so I don't expect that to make the Glazers do anything hasty. After all glazers are used to the hatred at this stage.
Crowd have been absolutely fantastic to him considering they've watched mainly tumescent shite this season.
I'm not blaming the fans at all. My general view is that most fans are the same - it's silent when the team doesn't give them anything to shout about. I'm an Arsenal season ticket holder - I've never seen a ground more toxic than after that Villa game.
I'm really trying to say that despite the fact that booing is rare at OT, there appears to be some lack of faith, as shown by the empty seats in the final five minutes when you're chasing a goal. Very rare for OT.
I agree. In some muddled way fans identify loyalty to the club with loyalty to the manager; whereas, in some circumstances, they can be polar opposites. Of course managers will promote the idea that they're entitled to an extended period to implement their philosophy - Fergie has been a big advocate over the years - but why supporters buy into this I have no idea. After all, players are offered no such grace - as soon as their powers fade, they're off, and nobody argues that things should be any different. Why shouldn't the same cool calculus apply to a manager? If facts suggest he's a liability, get rid of him - there's a good chance his replacement will be an improvement. It's never too early to correct a mistake.
Up in Stretty that's not really the case, might be different where your mate sits. As for the empty seats and people leaving it's pretty common at cup game, if you think that's bad just wait until the Sunderland game. All of the match going reds I know are backing Moyes and showing this by being vocal, the same goes for a lot of the lads who stand near me.
Why does that seem like déjà vu?
Wasn't there a poster last week who signed off a 400-word rant with the simple one-liner "I'm furious"?
It was brilliant.
And you posted a green smiley then too. Kevin I think. Was it about Cabaye?
What was with his attitude today? No response at all to our goal and just generally head in hands most of the game and despairing at what he was watching. He looks defeated.
I think that he didn't celebrate the goal because he was well aware that our defence flopped again and conceded and that it might happen again, he was right. As I've said already, some backing from Ferguson or Glazers that would be public should come in now.
At any other club he'd probably have been sacked or be under serious pressure to win the next game or two, but here it feels like theres no pressure and there is no way he will be sacked whatever happens this season. It might be nice that his job is secure, but maybe we're being too nice, handing out 6 year contracts and not putting him under any pressure. Maybe if there was some real pressure he'd react, not just stand on the touchline saying C'mon Danny every two minutes, he needs to stop being so timid.
I have two things to say in reply:
1. Ferguson was our manager for 26 years. Most people here haven't known another manager in their life time. It is therefore a possible explanation why some cannot detach manager from club. Also it's a good quality to have in the long run.
2. In terms of not understanding why people still support Moyes, the best I can do to answer that is give my own account. For me, I understand how hard it is to change something that's virtually set in stone through some experiences in my life. Additionally, Ferguson may have been one game away from never being given the chance to create this legacy. Before you bring up the usual argument that the two managers are different, yes they are. But I'm just talking about time and not the managers. We could sack Moyes and we don't know what we might miss. The flip side of course is that he will never be the right man and we should get rid of him now. There is no guarantee he will come good. So with that in mind it boils down to two things; 1. What we each ourselves consider a reasonable time that he should be given and how hard we believe the job is through our own experiences and 2. The gut feeling in your stomach. For me, all the evidence and even my head at times often tells me that I'm being an idiot for thinking DM will come good. But in my gut I just feel he needs more time and things will improve. One of those things I can't explain I guess.
Never mind Ferguson or the Glazers publicly backing him, the players should be declaring their embarrassment at letting him down. Again.
It's ridiculous that Fletcher, speaking after today's game, is the only player I've heard to come out and say that they've let the manager down this season. Absolutely ridiculous.
The look on his face today told me that he is feeling an enormous amount of pressure. He looks drained and completely demoralised.
And Fletcher had a great game today too, ironically.
As I said, I find it astounding. Top professional, is Fletch. I have great time for him. I bet Moyes is wishing that he had another ten Darren Fletchers in his squad right now.
I think blame lies with everyone at the club and everyone has to take their fair share. Everyone needs to get on the same page at OT and move forward with unity.
At the match, I think the supporters get behind him and the team as much as possible hoping that it could spur the team on. I would do the same thing if I were a season ticket holder even if I don't believe in Moyes. It's the conversations in the pub or on the train afterwards that must be turning against him. If that creeps into Old Trafford, Moyes will be ultimately defeated. He shows no sign of confidence or fire. He just puts his head down. Stoicism isn't going to win him any fans or get the crowd going.
The main problem with Moyes are not the results. Its expected end product. If he gets what he wants we will be a combination fo Stoke and classic team from 1990s. Loads of.long balls and crosses from the wing. I dont want that.
Yup, Kagawa needs to be amongst a fast and fluid midfield.
Well, that's not entirely true, if hoofball & crosses galore sees us top of the league there'll be very little complaints.
But I agree with you in terms of the general lack of innovation in our play.
We all are a little. It's been another case of one step forward, two backwards. All the good work done with the six straight wins has gone down the drain.
Good thing it was a cup game, if we have to lose every few games, let's lose those Capital One Cup games too and hopefully make up some ground in the league.
There have been a lot of complaints about our playing style in the last few seasons, even though we kept winning.
It became even worse, somehow, while getting no results either.
Exactly, it's the combination of looking lost and also losing that's the big problem right now. You can afford to do either, but not both.
There would be plenty of (justified) complaints if we continue to play awful football, even if we are successful. I want to have faith in moyes and I'm sure results will improve if he can man up and when he has stamped his own identity on the team. My main concern is that his team will play terrible football.
He's feeling the pressure for sure. Maybe it will turn out to be a good thing and he'll do something, be it try to change the style or give a pep talk which will inspire players.
My stomach says Moyes will come good as you know, but my head won't read the expression of his face coherently to that. I hate to say it but his expression looked more than under pressure. It looked overwhelmed, demoralised, out of his depth, fed up, ready to throw in the towel... However you want to call it. Today he really looked defeated and out of ideas. It worried me that does.
my sentiments exactly I dont see too many players paing for the fans away trips as a start, we could have a trained monkey managing, it is the players who make it or break it
Because he is and it's showing on the pitch. The players are lazy, lacklustre and cowardly, the football is brain dead, ugly and predictable. The belief has completely gone from the squad (bar half a dozen) We've conceded more late goals in the last two months than we did in 256 years under Sir Alex. About half the Premier League have ended a 100 year losing streak at Old Trafford between them. It just gets worse and worse.
There's being patient and there's seeing when something isn't working. I didn't have a problem with Moyes but it's not working, he just cannot inspire this group of players, how lower we can sink before the plug is pulled is anyone's guess.
But with Swansea at home and Chelsea away in 2 of our next 3, that plug might well be tugged because it is going to get worse.
He's lucky because at any other club our size he'd have been sacked, except AC Milan, who have somehow managed to have a worse season than us.
I liked his attitude to our goal, I interpreted it as "so what, we've equalised against Swansea's reserves." He was jumping about when Hernandez missed a chance to make it 2-1.
If that's really the case, there is only one thing that he should do.
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