Moyes So Far!

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DiseaseOfTheAge said:
Again, I'm not sure if that was really a majority of posters or just a majority of posts.
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Going back to this post from yesterday, we had a poll thread for who we wanted to be next manager and Moyes was way down the list on little more than 10% for most of the time. Once the leak came out, on the Sunday I think, then a load of people started voting for him. Even so, I think he ended up around 20% which is hardly a ringing endorsement. The majority of people in that thread where dead against Moyes as manager.

We've got him and I think we need to stick with him to at least the end of the season. See where we finish, whether January is a successful transfer window & whether there are positive signs going forward. I can't imagine we will have structured the contract in such a way that we will have to pay up 5 years of an unexpired contract in any case.

I can't seem to find the Poll thread, can anyone link it?
 
Colin129 said:
Going back to this post from yesterday, we had a poll thread for who we wanted to be next manager and Moyes was way down the list on little more than 10% for most of the time. Once the leak came out, on the Sunday I think, then a load of people started voting for him. Even so, I think he ended up around 20% which is hardly a ringing endorsement. The majority of people in that thread where dead against Moyes as manager.

We've got him and I think we need to stick with him to at least the end of the season. See where we finish, whether January is a successful transfer window & whether there are positive signs going forward. I can't imagine we will have structured the contract in such a way that we will have to pay up 5 years of an unexpired contract in any case.

I can't seem to find the Poll thread, can anyone link it?
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This was when SAF retired? That would be interesting to read, if so.
 
Backrow Singer said:
Few of those have been long term as well. We aren't talking about simply a few weeks with a few of them.
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Indeed. And we aren't talking about some squad players like Flanagan or Allen. We are talking about some real key first team players, not even first team regulars. Players vital to our team.
 
I've got a theory on the fear factor, but it might be flawed.

In my head, the Spurs game of last season(3-2) was the precursor to many of the problems that have sprung up under Moyes at Old Trafford. This is because that game was the first in a long time at Old Trafford where the opposition had a well thought out game plan and executed it. On this occasion, AVB demonstrated that placing Bale in between the midfield and the defence with the aim of isolating United's centre-halves against pace was a match winner.

Now, obviously United recovered from that game and won the league. It was a source of frustration to me, however, that no other side went to Old Trafford after the Spurs game and tried to pull off a similar tactic until it was too late. This season though, similar tactics have been executed. Look at the winning goals there from the opposition this year. The majority have come when the midfield has been bypassed and it's been attack v defence - see Cabaye's goal, Amalfitano's and Eriksen's.

This is why that first Spurs game is so significant in my mind. United have lost games at Old Trafford before, but they've peppered the goal and have been unlucky to lose. Spurs highlighted a clear weakness and a repeatable game plan to take advantage of it and this season, sides seem to have taken it on board.

That's why the fear factor has gone. Obviously sides are already coming to Old Trafford emboldened by the change of management and it's giving them the elan to exploit the weaknesses. It takes a long time to get the fortress atmosphere back - I would know. A few games lost here and there against average sides(West Brom and Newcastle in 2010 for Arsenal) make it so hard to quell the opposition in future seasons.
 
This season has been quite interesting. Dont think I've ever went through such a rollercoaster of emotions.

Disappointment - Not seeing the players attack with urgency when we've gone behind. The constant feeling that club's handling of Moyes' transition in the summer has snowballed into what we're seeing now.

Shock - The home losses. Didn't expect that. Also the defending this season at times has sent me up a roof with anger. Was irate with our defending against City. Couldn't understand it at the time.

Sheer anger - The manner of some of our losses and draws. Against Everton, I think we deserved a draw but just couldn't score. Newcastle, however, entirely different story. Gutless performances. No drive. Players looking clueless as if devoid of a leader. Some of Moyes' decision-making earlier on in season with subs and team selections. His persistence with Rio at beginning of season didn't sit well with me but thankfully he rectified that.

Short-lived elation - Our comebacks (i.e. Stoke) were great to see. It was classic United. Some great goals too (Rooney's volley for example) We've been so up and down though, the feeling never quite remained. Special mention to Adnan, boy's golden.

Intrigue - continuously pondering what Moyes has in store for this team. When we didn't invest heavily in the summer, was curious how Moyes was going to handle the squad. The sense of the unknown this season has been really interesting and exciting in some sense. Been interesting to watch him throughout his time so far. Looking much more settled but still doesnt look like he's got a stamp of authority on this team. You wonder when or if that will happen.

Puzzled - at how we've incessantly tried to go down Valencia's flank despite the fact his crossing has been utterly piss poor this season. It's like the other players have chosen to shift all the pressure onto Tony V and hope they escape damnation. Puzzled at our overuse of Evra and the absence of Fabio. The rotation of players, especially our CB pairs. Very little continuity. Doesn't really seem to matter who is in the team bar Rooney, Januzaj, Jones (on current form), we still play like crap. Against Newcastle, subs made no impact to the game whatsoever. It's happened in other games as well. Some of our fans somehow think it's a good thing Moyes is using similar tactics to Fergie despite the fact he's no Fergie or that he'll just come good even though there's no guarantee of that.

Calm/Cautious optimism - how i've felt at times this season when we started to get a couple of wins. Although he's not my choice, you still back him and of course you want him to get a chance to put things right. Didn't want to get carried with the build up of wins either. Some thought we were getting back into the title race....welp

Frustration - our style of play....just mind-numbing...how we've navigated home games like we're the away side..getting dominated at home by the likes of newcastle (nauseating)...mainly frustrating part is the summer and Moyes' transition into United. It couldn't have been more worse and we're paying the price for it. Don't feel like reiterating how we cocked up in transfer window but it's really cost us. Got to thank the Glazers. Way to support the new manager!! :mad:

Concerned - that Moyes may not be cut out for this job and United's position may falter if we finish out the top 4. If we do finish outside top 4, do not think it will be easy getting back in there. Assuming we'll just buy players and easily bounce back is just speculation at best. Although I dont feel we will have a barren period akin to Liverpool after the 90s, think we may fall to level of winning occasional cup if we're not careful.
 
Gladiator said:
This season has been quite interesting. Dont think I've ever went through such a rollercoaster of emotions.

Disappointment - Not seeing the players attack with urgency when we've gone behind. The constant feeling that club's handling of Moyes' transition in the summer has snowballed into what we're seeing now.

Shock - The home losses. Didn't expect that. Also the defending this season at times has sent me up a roof with anger. Was irate with our defending against City. Couldn't understand it at the time.

Sheer anger - The manner of some of our losses and draws. Against Everton, I think we deserved a draw but just couldn't score. Newcastle, however, entirely different story. Gutless performances. No drive. Players looking clueless as if devoid of a leader. Some of Moyes' decision-making earlier on in season with subs and team selections. His persistence with Rio at beginning of season didn't sit well with me but thankfully he rectified that.

Short-lived elation - Our comebacks (i.e. Stoke) were great to see. It was classic United. Some great goals too (Rooney's volley for example) We've been so up and down though, the feeling never quite remained. Special mention to Adnan, boy's golden.

Intrigue - continuously pondering what Moyes has in store for this team. When we didn't invest heavily in the summer, was curious how Moyes was going to handle the squad. The sense of the unknown this season has been really interesting and exciting in some sense. Been interesting to watch him throughout his time so far. Looking much more settled but still doesnt look like he's got a stamp of authority on this team. You wonder when or if that will happen.

Puzzled - at how we've incessantly tried to go down Valencia's flank despite the fact his crossing has been utterly piss poor this season. It's like the other players have chosen to shift all the pressure onto Tony V and hope they escape damnation. Puzzled at our overuse of Evra and the absence of Fabio. The rotation of players, especially our CB pairs. Very little continuity. Doesn't really seem to matter who is in the team bar Rooney, Januzaj, Jones (on current form), we still play like crap. Against Newcastle, subs made no impact to the game whatsoever. It's happened in other games as well. Some of our fans somehow think it's a good thing Moyes is using similar tactics to Fergie despite the fact he's no Fergie or that he'll just come good even though there's no guarantee of that.

Calm/Cautious optimism - how i've felt at times this season when we started to get a couple of wins. Although he's not my choice, you still back him and of course you want him to get a chance to put things right. Didn't want to get carried with the build up of wins either. Some thought we were getting back into the title race....welp

Frustration - our style of play....just mind-numbing...how we've navigated home games like we're the away side..getting dominated at home by the likes of newcastle (nauseating)...mainly frustrating part is the summer and Moyes' transition into United. It couldn't have been more worse and we're paying the price for it. Don't feel like reiterating how we cocked up in transfer window but it's really cost us. Got to thank the Glazers. Way to support the new manager!! :mad:

Concerned - that Moyes may not be cut out for this job and United's position may falter if we finish out the top 4. If we do finish outside top 4, do not think it will be easy getting back in there. Assuming we'll just buy players and easily bounce back is just speculation at best. Although I dont feel we will have a barren period akin to Liverpool after the 90s, think we may fall to level of winning occasional cup if we're not careful.
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:lol: Well done, I think we can safely say you aren't a droid then.
 
rpitroda said:
The problem is, seemingly nothing. You know fully well I am an optimist on Moyes, but if there was one thing that is concerning me the most it is this. He isn't doing enough to correct the mistakes we see week in week out.
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Agreed. You know my opinion - and not seeing any improvement in these areas only reinforce my opinion. You're right about being able to argue it from both sides.
 
Shane88 said:
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A real telling factor in that is the home game count of Chelsea and Liverpool. Could prove crucial by the end of the season.
 
alastair said:
I've got a theory on the fear factor, but it might be flawed.

In my head, the Spurs game of last season(3-2) was the precursor to many of the problems that have sprung up under Moyes at Old Trafford. This is because that game was the first in a long time at Old Trafford where the opposition had a well thought out game plan and executed it. On this occasion, AVB demonstrated that placing Bale in between the midfield and the defence with the aim of isolating United's centre-halves against pace was a match winner.

Now, obviously United recovered from that game and won the league. It was a source of frustration to me, however, that no other side went to Old Trafford after the Spurs game and tried to pull off a similar tactic until it was too late. This season though, similar tactics have been executed. Look at the winning goals there from the opposition this year. The majority have come when the midfield has been bypassed and it's been attack v defence - see Cabaye's goal, Amalfitano's and Eriksen's.

This is why that first Spurs game is so significant in my mind. United have lost games at Old Trafford before, but they've peppered the goal and have been unlucky to lose. Spurs highlighted a clear weakness and a repeatable game plan to take advantage of it and this season, sides seem to have taken it on board.

That's why the fear factor has gone. Obviously sides are already coming to Old Trafford emboldened by the change of management and it's giving them the elan to exploit the weaknesses. It takes a long time to get the fortress atmosphere back - I would know. A few games lost here and there against average sides(West Brom and Newcastle in 2010 for Arsenal) make it so hard to quell the opposition in future seasons.
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Was it feck.

The same rubbish was being spouted when Liverpool beat us 4-1 at OT in March 2009. "Benitez found United out" etc. - yet we still won the league and won it twice more since then. Vidic and Ferdinand hasn't become less susceptible to pace by the 2010/11 season when we won all but one of our home games.

This fear factor thing is a whole heap of bullshit. Quality teams have 'fear factor'. If a team is not that good then other sides don't fear them. It's not some magical atmosphere or aura that makes Bayern nigh on unbeatable at home, it's because they're a bloody fantastic team with great players in every position.

We have clear weaknesses and good teams can often exploit those. That's all that happened. No remotely competent manager in the league needed to see that 2-3 defeat against Spurs - where we peppered the goal and were unlucky to lose, btw - to figure out that Bale is faster than Ferdinand and that our midfield is really easily bypassed. There is no need to look for turning points in this. We won the league last season despite the Spurs defeat because we played a lot better than this season, not because teams did not realise we can be beaten at Old Trafford.

Spurs didn't even play some particularly courageous brand of football on New Year's Day. They did what most "underdogs" do away from home: shut up shop, concede possession, look to hit the opponent on the break. It worked. Not because of the fear factor being gone but because we're shite at defending and have no clear gameplan in attack.
 
Siorac said:
This fear factor thing is a whole heap of bullshit. Quality teams have 'fear factor'. If a team is not that good then other sides don't fear them. It's not some magical atmosphere or aura that makes Bayern nigh on unbeatable at home, it's because they're a bloody fantastic team with great players in every position.
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This. Teams used to worry about playing us because we were clearly better than them and very likely to grab a winner out of nothing in the last couple of minutes. This season we're playing shite and we're not winning so no one's worried. Simple.
 
Raoul said:
The fact that he only got 12.5% explains the endless negativity about his performance since taking over.
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That poll was right on the money for me. First choice should have been an obvious proven winner (e.g. Mourinho), second choice the up-and-coming prodigy (e.g. Klopp) and the last resort a decent mid-table manager like Moyes.
 
If Moyes wasn't Scottish, he wouldn't be Manchester United manager.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
If Moyes wasn't Scottish, he wouldn't be Manchester United manager.
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How much of an idiot do you think Alex Ferguson is? Seriously, he's probably forgotten more about football than you'll ever know. It's tiring seeing some no mark internet posters thinking they know better than him. You must think he's a complete idiot with an opinion like that
 
pocco said:
How much of an idiot do you think Alex Ferguson is? Seriously, he's probably forgotten more about football than you'll ever know. It's tiring seeing some no mark internet posters thinking they know better than him. You must think he's a complete idiot with an opinion like that
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This is how Fergie introduces his choice of David Moyes as his successor in his autobiography - he talks primarily of David Moyes being Scottish:

"...They wanted a new man in place within days.

A lot of Scots have a dourness about them: a strong will. When they leave Scotland it tends to be for one reason only. To be successful. Scots don’t leave to escape the past. They move away to better themselves. You see it all over the world, in America and Canada especially. Leaving the homeland creates a certain resolution. It’s not a mask; it’s a determination to get things done. The Scottish dourness others talk about sometimes applied to me as well.

The Scotsman abroad doesn’t lack humour. David Moyes is not short of wit. In their jobs, though, the Scots are serious about their labours, an invaluable quality. People often said to me, ‘I never see you smile during a game.’ I would reply, ‘I’m not there to smile, I’m there to win the match.’

David had some of these traits. I knew his family background. His father was a coach at Drumchapel, where I played as a lad. David Moyes senior. They have a good family feel about them. I’m not saying that’s a reason to hire someone but you like to see good foundations in someone appointed to such high office. I left Drumchapel in 1957 when David senior would have been a young boy, so there was no direct crossover, but I knew their story."

Clearly Scottishness was central to his thinking.
 
Taken from another forum...

United have played 200 more long balls so far this season compared to Liverpool, City and Arsenal. United have 64 long balls per game and this is the same as Palace and only 3 per game behind the likes of Norwich and West Ham.

Last season United were ranked 17th in terms of long balls, they are joint 9th with palace this year.

United were 6th in terms of attacks through the middle last season, they are joint last place this season.
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For those people saying Moyes has no plan or style of football, there you go.

Hooooooof.
 
Shane88 said:
Taken from another forum...



For those people saying Moyes has no plan or style of football, there you go.

Hooooooof.
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A sort of semi-serious point, but it could have a bit to do with us chasing more games than we're used to.
 
pocco said:
He even says that 'it's not a reason to hire anyone'. He's given multiple reasons for doing so in his interviews etc. He never mentioned his 'scottishness' when giving those reasons.
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I went to the Q&A with Fergie in London and when asked about Moyes he replied "Don't worry, we've got a good Scottish manager" before going on about his work-ethic and how that is typical of Scots.

I don't think someone with Moyes' record would have got the job if they were German or Italian for example.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
This is how Fergie introduces his choice of David Moyes as his successor in his autobiography - he talks primarily of David Moyes being Scottish:

"...They wanted a new man in place within days.

A lot of Scots have a dourness about them: a strong will. When they leave Scotland it tends to be for one reason only. To be successful. Scots don’t leave to escape the past. They move away to better themselves. You see it all over the world, in America and Canada especially. Leaving the homeland creates a certain resolution. It’s not a mask; it’s a determina- tion to get things done. The Scottish dourness others talk about sometimes applied to me as well.

The Scotsman abroad doesn’t lack humour. David Moyes is not short of wit. In their jobs, though, the Scots are serious about their labours, an invaluable quality. People often said to me, ‘I never see you smile during a game.’ I would reply, ‘I’m not there to smile, I’m there to win the match.’

David had some of these traits. I knew his family back- ground. His father was a coach at Drumchapel, where I played as a lad. David Moyes senior. They have a good family feel about them. I’m not saying that’s a reason to hire someone but you like to see good foundations in someone appointed to such high office. I left Drumchapel in 1957 when David senior would have been a young boy, so there was no direct crossover, but I knew their story."

Clearly Scottishness was central to his thinking.
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Elsewhere in the book I'm quite sure he also attributes the choice of Moyes to the fact he's hard working and he's got integrity. He also says the decision was unanimous and that Moyes is a winner, though very little is said about the footballing or actual managerial qualities and attributes of Moyes that led to this choice.

Through the book I was a little dumbstruck to how simplistic his comments on individual players, their abilities and characteristics were. For a man I've always viewed as highly intelligent and thoughtful, it was a very surprising and a slightly disappointing theme throughout. It left a strange feeling.

Anyway, I agree the fact Moyes is Scottish did play a role in his thinking, though I'm not sure I'd agree in thinking it was central. I do feel factors like perceived loyalty to the club, hard work and honesty, if you'd like, were factors that weighed heavily - perhaps way too heavily - in this decision.
 
Siorac said:
I think that's the other way around, we have to chase games more because we're playing shit football.
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Probably. It doesn't surprise me that stat but it doesn't make for good reading. Just our luck that long ball specialist we signed has knackered his wrist!
 
Summit said:
:lol: Well done, I think we can safely say you aren't a droid then.
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:lol: Obviously we all feel a range of emotions but it's the sheer extent because of how up and down this season has been. I'm not sure how you've taken it though.
 
Never mind that Hoof League bollocks, we're down to 957th in the Golden Gloves League.
 
marjen said:
Elsewhere in the book I'm quite sure he also attributes the choice of Moyes to the fact he's hard working and he's got integrity. He also says the decision was unanimous and that Moyes is a winner, though very little is said about the footballing or actual managerial qualities and attributes of Moyes that led to this choice.

Through the book I was a little dumbstruck to how simplistic his comments on individual players, their abilities and characteristics were. For a man I've always viewed as highly intelligent and thoughtful, it was a very surprising and a slightly disappointing theme throughout. It left a strange feeling.

Anyway, I agree the fact Moyes is Scottish did play a role in his thinking, though I'm not sure I'd agree in thinking it was central. I do feel factors like perceived loyalty to the club, hard work and honesty, if you'd like, were factors that weighed heavily - perhaps way too heavily - in this decision.
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Really? In his first autobiography it was completely the opposite, there was plenty of insight into those things. This new book might have been a bit rushed, I don't know.
 
Siorac said:
Really? In his first autobiography it was completely the opposite, there was plenty of insight into those things. This new book might have been a bit rushed, I don't know.
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His reasoning when assessing players seemed incredibly simplistic. He would describe Verón as a top player, with great vision, but then go on for two sentences about his incredible engine. He would harp on about the same when it comes to Beckham, his incredible work-rate. And Valencia.

In terms of actually describing individual players and their footballing qualities, I felt his comments really lacked depth, almost as if they didn't paint the whole picture. The exception in this book possibly being Scholes, I loved how he described the way Scholesy espaced his markers in matches.
 
So Moyes has ruled out any transfers in January, he feels the squad is good enough!!

My question is what is the squad enough for, to finish in the top ten and avoid relegation?
 
To be fair in Soccernmomics Moyes is pretty much the highest ranked manager out there in terms of 'points per pound spent'. Behind only Ferguson and Daglish's first stint I believe. Have to imagine that played a part too.
 
Beachryan said:
To be fair in Soccernmomics Moyes is pretty much the highest ranked manager out there in terms of 'points per pound spent'. Behind only Ferguson and Daglish's first stint I believe. Have to imagine that played a part too.
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That would certainly be the clincher if Fergie sold that aspect in to the Glazers when advocating his appointment.
 
A probably reason is that most people aren't all that interested in the detailed stuff. That won't sell the books nor create headlines
 
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