He set up the team to attack and try and win the game. We were undone more by poor individual defending then anything tactical, seems a bit churlish to criticise him for being aggressive at home.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
- Start date
- Status
He set up the team to attack and try and win the game. We were undone more by poor individual defending then anything tactical, seems a bit churlish to criticise him for being aggressive at home.
If Spurs were direct competitors for a top 4 place I'd agree. However, in our present position every game for us is now a 3 pointer.
Since when has Jones become such a game changer? We didn't have the on form Rooney last year or Januzaj, not to forget Moyes also added a 27m midfielder of his choice to our squad this year, plus we also had many injuries last year too.
Jones has been one of our best performers this season and would have been able to give us more drive from midfield (and better cover on the counter attack). We don't have anyone else like that in our squad.
I think you can be attacking without overcommitting and it felt to me that we were leaving ourselves open to a counter, there were some individual errors but we may well have been able to control the game a bit better using a slightly more disciplined set up. Personally I felt that Clev and Rooney were allowed to both get too far from Carrick. Obviously I can't say if it ultimately would change the outcome but I felt Spur's threat on the counter was quite clear.
Don't think I agree, against the weaker teams sure, and certainly ideally we need to take points off those around us, but I also think there's plenty of room for making sure we don't allow ourselves to get caught out. Go for the win no doubt but make sure you don't lose, I think when we've played those teams that are up for giving us a game we've not quite got that balance right and we've paid the price. As I said, I agree we've been unlucky with injuries but then surely you change your approach especially as once the likes of RVP are fit and firing again then we can go for a surge and get 4th at least.
But either way I'm not saying it's all Moyes's fault, I've defended him lots of times, I just think that as bad as injuries have been I don't think he's adapted his approach well enough in the tougher games where Arsenal aside we've struggled considerably in general.
Moyes set up an attacking team because the reality is we really struggle to play conservatively and create chances against top sides. We paid a price for the defending but the problem remains that for about 50 odd minutes prior to the second Spurs goal, after a good start to the game, we really didn't create a chance.
I'm getting really fed up of hearing about our midfield being awful....You'd swear it was the worst in the league
It's not the worst but it's below the standard of the likes of Newcastle, Southampton and Everton, which is incredible.
I wouldn't say it's below the standard of those teams on paper, but I would say that their midfield functions a lot better. As in, they don't pass it out right to a one dimensional winger around 100,000 times a game.
This!!! This!!! fecking this!!!!
Surely has professional footballers, they must see it isn't working and try a different way or at least go out and offer Valencia a different option of passing and moving into the box as opposed to seeing how many throw ins he can win!!!
He doesn't help himself at all. Most United fans will (rightly or wrongly) interpret his comments regarding January transfers as a sign of incompetence.
Maybe RVP being out is hampering us. The way we performed against these teams last year is light years away. We snatched win late or maybe another thing we got some decisions in our favour. Moyes isn't getting those either. We won at City, Liverpool and Chelsea. We beat Everton and Newcastle at OT.
It's the continuing to play from wide which is one of the frustrations, if we had brilliant wingers who could actually fire the ball into the centre, but they are awful. We therefore don't pose any threat from anywhere.
Fergie also revealed in one of his older books that he made a rather unfortunate quip to Paul Ince about the Scottish being the master race. It may have been a tasteless joke of its time but Fergie is a fierce patriot and I am quite sure that he believes that there is something inherent in the Scottish character that makes them superior leaders. You could legitimately make that argument as there has always been a disproportionate amount of Scottish people in positions of power in all British industries.
Nonetheless, in modern football, the modern Scottish manager is a British manager and now Fergie has gone they are no longer amongst the elite. They have slipped down the pecking order as they are mostly proponents of the antiquated and regressive British style. Moyes is certainly showing himself to be cut from that very cloth so far, well, that is what he had shown through his career previously too.
It is all well and good saying things like 'do you think Fergie is stupid' and so on. Lets face it though, was there anyone else in world football outside Old Trafford who thought that Moyes was the man for this job? No other top club in the world has ever offered Moyes a job as manager. Even Spurs looked at him and decided that his footballing philosophy was too dour for them! Every rival fan I have spoken to, to a man, were delighted that Moyes was appointed, simply because no one sees him as an elite manager worthy of the OT managership.
I don't think that Fergie is stupid or that I know more about football than him. I do worry though that he made the appointment of Moyes based on the wrong criteria. He made many personnel mistakes over the years (he signed Bebe blind FFS), only this one has much more serious repercussions than any other that he has made.
I hope that Moyes can turn this round but in the bottom of my heart I don't think that he is up to the job on a number of levels.
/\
Could be why SAF continued playing Fletcher between 2004 and 2006 when the player was obviously not up to par. Often reeked of "nepotism" so to speak.
Found this blogger's rant on Moyes. His points are rather wild IMO, and not sure where he gets this magical 220-million pound figure. http://www.rantsports.com/soccer/2014/01/04/10-reasons-why-david-moyes-is-the-wrong-man-to-lead-manchester-united/
Could be why SAF continued playing Fletcher between 2004 and 2006 when the player was obviously not up to par. Often reeked of "nepotism" so to speak.
Found this blogger's rant on Moyes. His points are rather wild IMO, and not sure where he gets this magical 220-million pound figure. http://www.rantsports.com/soccer/2014/01/04/10-reasons-why-david-moyes-is-the-wrong-man-to-lead-manchester-united/
Stupid rant and 220million pound figure has nothing to do with the reality.
Alex Shaw from The People saying get ready for a mini shit storm following Moyes' presser with the Sundays.
Negative and doesn't sound up to the job
Negative and doesn't sound up to the job
A journalist using the acronym 'WTF', suddenly I'm a bit relaxed as to what the actual quotes were.
The People is a shower of a paper too.
Sounding "too overwhelmed" seems pretty minor.
Look at the shape of his head and then ask yourself would you ever trust anything a man with that kind of head says?
Of course you wouldn't, his head shape is ridiculous.
Of course you wouldn't, his head shape is ridiculous.
So, in this jumped-up prick's opinion, Moyes 'sounds' not up to the job.
Glad that's cleared up, then.
Glad that's cleared up, then.
Obvious click bait tweeting.
Why are we paying attention to some moron named Alex Shaw? Who is he? Looking at his face, I can bet he can't lace his shoes if his life depended on it. Yet his quotes make way to our forum to discuss. Crazy times.Who is Alex Shaw?
Stop reading papers, then cnuts like this won't have a job.
A cousin of Luke Shaw. Or was it Luke Skywalker? I don't remember.
What a rude & unprofessional person. 'Yawn' indeed...
I have to say, I think we need to give Moyes a fair amount of time to get the job right but feck me, this man just depresses the shit out of me. He's shown no fresh ideas at all in terms of playing style. In fact it seems to have regressed. His pressers haven't been the best. A few of his players have either privately (and it's then been leaked) or publically questioned things he's said (Ferdy, Welbeck); and the club in general has been a total shambles since the summer. The handling of injuries, tactics, scouting, transfer policy and negotiating strategy, have all been utter wank. 4th has to be the target but I have no confidence at all that we can get it. It's far from inconceivable that we could lose 10 league matches this season. Christ we've already lost 6 at the half way point. So it's almost probable at this point.
It shames me to say it but I have no faith in Moyes whatsoever. There are just no glimmers of an intelligent, progressive strategy on or off the field. But yet I feel dirty saying it because I know, just know that we have to be fair, not knee jerk and give this manager time. United have to be better than that; I have to be better than that. I'm just struggling to suppress this frustration and disappointment.
Hopefully us fans can stick together and support the team and the manager and pull through. But I'm finding the going tough right now. I remember being crap in the 80's but it was easier then because I didn't expect so much.
It shames me to say it but I have no faith in Moyes whatsoever. There are just no glimmers of an intelligent, progressive strategy on or off the field. But yet I feel dirty saying it because I know, just know that we have to be fair, not knee jerk and give this manager time. United have to be better than that; I have to be better than that. I'm just struggling to suppress this frustration and disappointment.
Hopefully us fans can stick together and support the team and the manager and pull through. But I'm finding the going tough right now. I remember being crap in the 80's but it was easier then because I didn't expect so much.
Could you imagine if the manager of a football club sitting in fifth were negative? My God, the horror. He should be all rainbows and unicorns. You know, like King Kenny was at Liverpool.
Why does everyone think that we "must" give Moyes all the time he needs to see if he can get it right. The fact of the matter is that SAF failed miserably to plan beyond last season and left a situation where we probably need a CB, LB, 2 x CM's and a LM. In addition to do that Moyes has to find a buyer's for a large number of players who have proved to be inadequate to play for Man Utd. Finally, he has to insist that Giggs and Rio retire at the end of this season. All of this on top of trying to come to grips with the biggest club job in British football.
SAF went out and hand picked Moyes, a Manager of a mid-sized regional team in the PL who had won nothing in his spell there. This is where the Glazer's lack of football knowledge, and the fact that they left this solely to SAF, is going to come back to haunt them. When choosing a successor most organizations would include input from the outgoing Boss but the final say would not be his. Not only did SAF make the call he was the one that delivered the message "hey Moyesy you're going to be the next manager of Manchester United". Wtf!!
This process should have been much more diligent. We should have been looking for one of the top coaches in the world, someone with the pedigree to take on such a job and help attract the best players in the world to OT. David Moyes will not do that.
My real concern is that if we wait to see if Moyes is going to come good we run a serious risk of losing pace with Shitty, Chelsea and Arsenal that may take years to put right. Put him out of his misery and sack him now. Appoint Giggs until the end of the season and start the process of finding a coach with the right credentials and stature to manage Manchester United commencing season 14/15.
SAF went out and hand picked Moyes, a Manager of a mid-sized regional team in the PL who had won nothing in his spell there. This is where the Glazer's lack of football knowledge, and the fact that they left this solely to SAF, is going to come back to haunt them. When choosing a successor most organizations would include input from the outgoing Boss but the final say would not be his. Not only did SAF make the call he was the one that delivered the message "hey Moyesy you're going to be the next manager of Manchester United". Wtf!!
This process should have been much more diligent. We should have been looking for one of the top coaches in the world, someone with the pedigree to take on such a job and help attract the best players in the world to OT. David Moyes will not do that.
My real concern is that if we wait to see if Moyes is going to come good we run a serious risk of losing pace with Shitty, Chelsea and Arsenal that may take years to put right. Put him out of his misery and sack him now. Appoint Giggs until the end of the season and start the process of finding a coach with the right credentials and stature to manage Manchester United commencing season 14/15.
Ole, you are not fecking about. While I disagree with mostly everything you've said there, I have to applaud your feck-you-I-have-a-plan attitude.
I doubt it will keep them awake at night.
I think its fair to say he's struggling. And given that most didn't want him in the first place, he's done little to win anyone over or inspire any sort of confidence that he has the capacity to steady the ship.
As I've stated previously, the most pleasing aspect about this season for me is the level of backing and support shown towards the manager, and my view on it is quite simple. David Moyes deserves the same amount of time the club have given other managers over the years. People constantly talk about the managerial situation in the game at the minute, and for good reason. People seem to think clubs need to follow the common trend amongst the so called 'big clubs' in recent years. I went to my first game when I was 4 years of age, and the main difference between United and numerous other clubs for me is that we have always stuck to our values. Obviously the game is always changing and evolving somewhat, and you need to move with the times and adapt on occasions, but the club have always kept and maintained their values and beliefs. We handed Moyes a 6 year contract, and that in itself deserves a bit of appreciation in my opinion. People constantly criticise the managerial 'crisis' in this country but fail to acknowledge that.
Listen to the comments that have been made towards players at games this season. I mean, read the comments on here. Why people can't accept that the club are going through a transitional phase is beyond me. It's not even as though we haven't been here before. 2001. 2005. Both of the top of my head. We went 2 or 3 years without the Championship in 2005 if I remember correctly. It happens, but we've always responded. I can't think of too many clubs in Europe who would have responded in the same way. Add in the fact that we've been without our best centre-forward (a player who turned games like Wednesday into points) for the majority of the year, our best central-midfield player, Rooney hasn't been 100% fit, and we've been without other key players for large periods of the season. It would help first of all to get the Championship winning side that we are back out on the pitch.
Look at the comments made towards individual players on this forum alone. Confidence is a big thing at this level, and there have been too many occasions this season where players have looked unsure, or as I say, lack confidence. When we have played with confidence we have looked good: think Villa, think Leverkusen etc. I don't see how people can expect Moyes to come and completely change the philosophy of the football club, as people have been indicating at times this season. United have always played with confidence and belief. We've always played with tempo, moved the ball quickly, and we've always played a certain way. We haven't done that consistently enough this year. Certain individuals aren't quite there yet, but that will sort itself out in time.
We all know the problems we have, and we all know that areas that need to be strengthened. It remains to be seen what we do in the window. Moyes will adapt in time. His beliefs will change, in time. How many times have we been behind in games and have practically thrown the kitchen sink at teams in order to get the result. We are in a transitional period where the club as a whole are attempting to adapt to our a major, major change. It's happened before, and it will happen again. For me, we need to stick with it, strengthen in the correct areas, stick to the values we have had over the years, and we'll be fine.
Listen to the comments that have been made towards players at games this season. I mean, read the comments on here. Why people can't accept that the club are going through a transitional phase is beyond me. It's not even as though we haven't been here before. 2001. 2005. Both of the top of my head. We went 2 or 3 years without the Championship in 2005 if I remember correctly. It happens, but we've always responded. I can't think of too many clubs in Europe who would have responded in the same way. Add in the fact that we've been without our best centre-forward (a player who turned games like Wednesday into points) for the majority of the year, our best central-midfield player, Rooney hasn't been 100% fit, and we've been without other key players for large periods of the season. It would help first of all to get the Championship winning side that we are back out on the pitch.
Look at the comments made towards individual players on this forum alone. Confidence is a big thing at this level, and there have been too many occasions this season where players have looked unsure, or as I say, lack confidence. When we have played with confidence we have looked good: think Villa, think Leverkusen etc. I don't see how people can expect Moyes to come and completely change the philosophy of the football club, as people have been indicating at times this season. United have always played with confidence and belief. We've always played with tempo, moved the ball quickly, and we've always played a certain way. We haven't done that consistently enough this year. Certain individuals aren't quite there yet, but that will sort itself out in time.
We all know the problems we have, and we all know that areas that need to be strengthened. It remains to be seen what we do in the window. Moyes will adapt in time. His beliefs will change, in time. How many times have we been behind in games and have practically thrown the kitchen sink at teams in order to get the result. We are in a transitional period where the club as a whole are attempting to adapt to our a major, major change. It's happened before, and it will happen again. For me, we need to stick with it, strengthen in the correct areas, stick to the values we have had over the years, and we'll be fine.
It's not the transitional part that has people fearful imo, it's the whole 'life after Fergie' thing. We genuinely have no idea what will happen to the club.
That, and (in my opinion at least) all the people saying let Moyes build United in his image. What image is that exactly? He was at Everton for 11 years and I very highly doubt anyone of our supporters was at any point jealous of their style. That's what I'm worried about the most, and despite everybody saying he will change his ways and adapt to life at United, and more in line with our expectations of attacking football, his first signing was Fellaini and he's trying as much as he can to bring in Baines as well. It's like he's trying to get us to replicate Everton of old but with better players. If he does change his ways, then fine, but so far this half season at least, we haven't shown many signs of playing some good football or had any sort of consistency. Defence has been all over the place, and the attacking has been so one dimensional it's ridiculous, and what's worse is that Valencia seems like he is one of the first names on the team sheet despite being largely shite.
I can appreciate this post, I really can but there is a valid argument to be made that United is not the same club it was when Fergie took over or when Sexton or Atkinson were managers. Expectations are vastly different and rightly so. So isn't it a little outdated to say we'll give the manager the same amount of time we have given other managers in the past? Are you really advocating letting Moyes go 5 years without winning a trophy before we contemplate sacking him? I don't think even the most patient and level headed United fan could get behind that.
We all expected Moyes to have some struggles in his first season, but surely his remit was to try and keep the club winning, rather than any brief to get the club back to the top. It already was at or near the top. He didn't need to reinvent the wheel. Also, the notion of patience for a manager surely has to come within some parameters i.e. Signs of progress, signs of development, signs of a coherent strategy and of course some relative stability. Finishing outside of the top four is a worst case scenario for United and no one can be under any illusions that it would be a major setback for the club and make the whole process of development through recruitment, that much harder. An area the club has already struggled in since Moyes took over. So how long should fans support the manager in the failure of CL qualification? 1 year, 2 years, 5 years? How long should the owners tolerate it? Surely if Moyes fails to finish in the top 4 this season, it can only be regarded as a massive failure and next season his job should be on the line with CL qualification mandatory to keeping his post. We simply can't afford to set the standards any lower than that and I don't think it is unreasonable or knee jerk to suggest so.
A transitional phase is expected but as already said, there have to be minimum standards. The bench mark is titles, the minimum requirement is CL qualification. He should get time and patience to build title winning sides, but the fuse is considerably shorter for building consistent CL qualifying sides. Our last transitional phase, which you highlighted, had us finishing 3rd.
- Status