Moyes So Far!

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Our midfield being so open is definitely something Moyes can take stick for. We know his options aren't great there but that's no excuse for the tactical positioning to so often be questionable. If Moyes isn't yet able to get the most out of certain players as Fergie did to compensate for letting ourselves get a bit open through the middle that's fine, that takes time. But he should be able to recognize this and then ask players to do something different. I've said it in other threads but I don't get why Clev is seemingly being allowed to just wonder in central midfield. Some of our biggest problems can easily be attributed to midfield being left to one guy to cover. Get him sitting in there as well. We know he can do it. When he's asked to play a disciplined role he does it well. We need that.

The other thing for me is with Evra. I don't know why he doesn't rate Fabio or if Fabio has done something wrong, he's been included in some squads so not sure if it's the latter, but surely Fabio has shown enough since he's been here and last season to show he can do a job at full back even if it's not ideal. Evra looked so knackered today, you can't help but feel that he's overly used recently, and not due to needs must either, we've had options there, they've just been overlooked completely. But as I said that's hard to say as we don't know what the situation is.
 
Amir said:
He offers crossing. The last thing our attack needs is another player to do that.
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Name a player that had more than 3 crosses completed today.

Protip: you can't. We've had around, I don't know, 30 crosses done today and about 5 were successful. So in fact, yea, we could do with a player that can cross the ball.
 
Kostur said:
Name a player that had more than 3 crosses completed today.

Protip: you can't. We've had around, I don't know, 30 crosses done today and about 5 were successful. So in fact, yea, we could do with a player that can cross the ball.
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Or the preferred way of attacking in a more creative way that giving the ball to Rooney who passes it 50 yards away to our wngers who then immediately cross. Crossing is fine, crossing as the only way of creativity here isn't.

I am with Amir here.
 
I still feel that finishing outside the top 4 is a sackable offense. And given the majority of performances so far have been awful with a Champion squad, with a core of top young internationals adds weight to the dissatisfaction of what has been displayed so far. I have said it before, this football club IS NOT IN TRANSITION like it was when SAF took over. Everything was left in place as cutting edge, from the tea lady, to the academy, to the scouting system. Every squad granted, no matter how successful, needs tweaks from season to season and though it didn't work out in the Summer, the present squad is more than capable of at least challenging into the latter part of the season for the title, not languishing outside the top 4 looking unlikely to get into CL football, which quite frankly is unthinkable for the biggest football club in the World. As a fan it feels like being in no mans land, you don't know by what criteria or thresholds the manager is being judged, everyone is just sitting here watching it crumble with no idea if the board \ owners are concerned or, regardless of the massive dip in standards, they believe David Moyes is going to come good.
 
Revan said:
Or the preferred way of attacking in a more creative way that giving the ball to Rooney who passes it 50 yards away to our wngers who then immediately cross. Crossing is fine, crossing as the only way of creativity here isn't.

I am with Amir here.
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Aye, I agree with what you've just said but our crossing is definitely not fine. Here lies the problem and Baines can fix it. Not saying he's my favourite or so, no, but he's a tremendous crosser.
 
Surely Moyes must take part in the blame that all our play comes through Valencia. It must be intentional.

I mean it's not like Ronaldo or Beckham down the wing. So why is all our play switching to Valencia who can't cross to save his life.
 
Because we've got used to that pattern of play, neglecting the left and feeding the ball to the right. Its what Rooney loves to do as well. I agree Moyes has to take the blame because he clearly hasnt instructed our players to stop it but its just a continuation of what we were already doing
 
Ekeke said:
Because we've got used to that pattern of play, neglecting the left and feeding the ball to the right. Its what Rooney loves to do as well. I agree Moyes has to take the blame because he clearly hasnt instructed our players to stop it but its just a continuation of what we were already doing
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This is a good point. Rooney does those 50 yards passes that are always precise on the right side of the pitch, but you rarely see him doing the same on the other flank.
 
Bojan11 said:
Surely Moyes must take part in the blame that all our play comes through Valencia. It must be intentional.

I mean it's not like Ronaldo or Beckham down the wing. So why is all our play switching to Valencia who can't cross to save his life.
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Unfortunately it is, as a tweet posted in the Valencia thread showed -


Depressing.
 
That was an odd game, we started really well indeed for 20mins and should have had a goal. If only Smalling had put that early one away.

Tottenham nicked one on the break and it all started to go wrong. Rooney way too deep, right wingers having sh!Tloads of the ball but from about 40 crosses producing not a lot.

And how mad was that last 10mins or so.

Welbeck, Hernandez, Rooney, Janujaz, Young, Kagawa and Valencia all on the pitch!
 

Yes insane to think that a manager has something to do with our style of play. This switching to Valencia constantly has to be a tactic otherwise why hasn't he stopped it. Because it hasn't worked.
 
Bojan11 said:
Surely Moyes must take part in the blame that all our play comes through Valencia. It must be intentional.

I mean it's not like Ronaldo or Beckham down the wing. So why is all our play switching to Valencia who can't cross to save his life.
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Probably because he's quick and it's a simple and effective (most of the time) tactic.
 
Ekeke said:
Because we've got used to that pattern of play, neglecting the left and feeding the ball to the right. Its what Rooney loves to do as well. I agree Moyes has to take the blame because he clearly hasnt instructed our players to stop it but its just a continuation of what we were already doing
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I agree it has been there pre-Moyes.

It is still very strange though, there must be a reason. The only one I notice is that often the right winger is in more space than the left, be it Nani or Valenica especially they like to hug the touchline more than we see on the left.

Valencia should be blamed for his shocking crosses but it isn't his fault the midfield continually hit it out there to him. None of them like to take responsibility for trying the more difficult approach of playing through the middle. It's just look up and play the easy pass out wide right.
 
shaggy said:
Unfortunately it is, as a tweet posted in the Valencia thread showed
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Eh?

How does Valencia practising his crossing mean that Moyes has told the team to continually play down the right?
 
Another interesting statistic to come out of this fixture is United's troubles with conceding the first goal of the game. The champions have gone behind in ten of their 20 Premier League matches this season, with only seven clubs conceding first on more occasions.
This was also a problem in Ferguson's final campaign, in which United fell behind 16 times, battling back to win nine of those matches.
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I likes this stat also. Our inability to score the first goal looks like a continuation of last season. Except we don't have RVP and the aura of SAF to bail us out.
 
Theon said:
Eh?

How does Valencia practising his crossing mean that Moyes has told the team to continually play down the right?
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Valencia spends a lot of time working on crossing and even takes time after training to continue practising it. Says to me it's something we're looking to use in games and it certainly seems that way. All we ever do is cross, cross, cross. I'm sick of crosses and it's only January.
 
Theon said:
I agree it has been there pre-Moyes.

It is still very strange though, there must be a reason. The only one I notice is that often the right winger is in more space than the left, be it Nani or Valenica especially they like to hug the touchline more than we see on the left.

Valencia should be blamed for his shocking crosses but it isn't his fault the midfield continually hit it out there to him. None of them like to take responsibility for trying the more difficult approach of playing through the middle. It's just look up and play the easy pass out wide right.
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I think thats part of a viscous circle though. I've seen countless times where whoever is playing on the left is open that side, sometimes even in position to take a pass behind the defender, and whoever has to ball whether its Rooney who usually in the position, but including other players to, decide not to play the pass and move the ball to the right. If you are that left winger you're going to stick out by the byline less and make less attempts to run through because you know your teammates are reluctant to play the pass there. So yeah for sure Valencia holds out on the right more than our players do on the left, but I think its partly because he knows he'll get the ball a lot, that Valencia does that. If he was holding out there and being neglected like our left winger is sometimes I expect he'd stop being there so often. So he gets the ball a lot out there because he's in space, but he's in space out there because he knows he gets the ball on the right. The left winger doesnt get the ball out on the left even if hes in space, so he doesn't hold out on the left wing as much as Valencia does on the right.
 
Well, when your striker playing up front just stands around not making runs, you end up just trying to cross the ball. Welbeck was like a tree for long periods of the first half. When we were playing well early on, he was standing around, not making runs or coming to meet passes. Then we switched to attacking down the right.
 
DeGea was solid, couldn't do anything regarding the goals. Evra look knackered. Vidic have lost pace and look more and more vulnerable. Smalling had his worst game of the season. Evans were well below his normal standard.

Carrick was as expected rusty and don't have energy for 90 minutes. Clev shouldn't be on the pitch in the first place, not United standard.

Valencia is to predictable and shouldn't play in the defense. Januzaj was ok but shouldn't be our best winger at his age.

Rooney had a bad day at the office. Hernandez is a shadow of himself. Wellbeck was our only player who was up to normal standard. Kagawa was... Kagawa and Young did what he could out of seven eight minutes.

Webb should be ashamed of himself, two three totally wrong match changing decisions. His worst game in years?

Many players were below normal standard, the ref was shit, but that doesn't hide our fundamental problem.

David Moyes.

What is his preferred formation and tactic? Playing two in midfield clearly doesn't work against the top teams. What is our tactic? Play true Valencia every time or long hoof balls? Plan B? Playing Roo and Kagawa in midfield. Valencia as a FB and let Evans or Vidic be our playmakers?

Why are the majority of our players below standard? Why so many injuries?

Buying Fellaini for £27m? His absolutely worst mistake. Lost for words...

Everything is bad luck. He needs time. Started only in July. Our squad is shit and needs and overhaul. New back room staff.

What is our managers vision? Possession? 433? Counter attack? Youth? Barkley and Fabregas? Rooney banging in 30 goals?

Please tell me because I can't see it. Right now we play like shit, even my Pool friends feel sorry for us.

What is his plans in the short term? Buying big in January? Waiting for RVP and Jones to come back? Relying on Rooney?

It's hurts to say but I can't see us being successful with Moyes in charge. To much Cliff Barnes and to less JR. If we don't see improvements before April then get rid of him in the summer and hire a managers with a vision or a proven winner. I love my club and always will but this isn't good enough.








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mattsville said:
I still feel that finishing outside the top 4 is a sackable offense.
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Well it would be at the other big teams Chelsea, City and probably even Arsenal but Arsene always seems to get them there. Chelsea and City have proved this by sacking managers when not happy but because we've had Ferguson for so long and he didn't do much wrong in the PL certainly we don't yet know what the Glaziers are really like, depends how much SAF can hold them off.

Give Moyes till the end of the season regardless or if top 4 comes off or not I say. Its not like we'll get relegated is it and I'm sure we can put up with no CL football from the off next year, especially as we had to go in the Europa under Ferguson not too long back for low points in the CL group stage. If Moyes still has us down there and still playing this crap stuff come May then get rid. We can hold our heads high then and say we gave him a good season to come good when the others would not have and SAF and Bobby will be happy.

Really hoping he comes good and have like some things about him, the youth chances, the going gung ho like Fergie for the result and some of the touch line fire. The issue is not the points for me, its the entertainment, there is very little, low shot count and constant crosses when we have good enough players to vary it a bit. Transition or not, Moyes came here with us having gold patches on the shirt, not craving a league for years like with SAF before in 86 or Liverpool now, so he should be doing way better than 7th. Martinez so far is embarrassing him because lets not forget Moyes was there 10 years too, they lost him and lost their best player to us, so where is their long transition.

Some of the knee jerkers in the match thread like Steve J saying we need to get the cash out or someone else saying £100m wouldn't sort us out is silly, we have, and Moyes has good enough squad to beat Everton, Liverpool, Spurs. Moyes has a big problem at Old Trafford, teams will love coming here right now.
 
rooneyaldo said:
One thing I am not worries about this season is our form in the cups. We could win the lot.
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We've been a different team in some of the cup games and Moyes sailed through the trickiest CL group we've had in a good while. Our league form has just been utter dog shit, particularly at home.
 
People are pointing at Moyes, some of it duly deserved, but what have the likes of Round, Lumsden, Neville, Giggs contributed, shouldn't they be made accountable too?
 
Nate Dogg said:
People are pointing at Moyes, some of it duly deserved, but what have the likes of Round, Lumsden, Neville, Giggs contributed, shouldn't they be made accountable too?
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None of them bar Giggs would've been there had it not been for Moyes.
 
It's scary how fine margins sometimes are. Last season we got lucky in important games, i.e. away to City, Liverpool or Chelsea. RvP bailed us out a lot of times, while our overall play was as slow and predictable as it was today. The never say die attitude was always there though, something I haven't seen from Moyes's team up until recently.

We could've had a much better season so far if we had any kind of luck TBH, but it's the complete opposite of last season so far. Crap late equalizers against Saints and Cardiff, could've beaten both Everton and Newcastle (hit the post and the bar, they finished one of their few chances each), probably should have had a couple of penalties yesterday... I'm not saying we've been excellent, just stating the obvious and pointing out the same problems were already there last season, but masked by RvP's brilliance and SAF's genius.
Moyes can't catch a break so far, the injuries to our, IMHO, most important players (Rooney aside) in RvP, Rafael & Carrick/Jones are simply horrendous. Moyes is to blame for a lot of things, but, better late than never, I've come to the conclusion that many of the playing staff have to shoulder most of the blame. We're in for a big clear-out... Rio, Evra, Buttner, Anderson, Young, Valencia, Fabio, Giggs, Vidic, Hernandez, Kagawa should or may all be on their way out, and it shows. Some of them are finished, others not good enough (anymore). We have a good and decent core (De Gea, Rafael, Jones, Smalling, Evans, Carrick, Welbeck, Rooney, RvP, Januzaj, maybe add even Nani and Fellaini), but Moyes needs to show he can build his own team while playing and winning in style as well.
 
Nate Dogg said:
People are pointing at Moyes, some of it duly deserved, but what have the likes of Round, Lumsden, Neville, Giggs contributed, shouldn't they be made accountable too?
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They are Moyes staff. He replaced some coaches who were a reason why we were so succesful with them, so if the new coaches are shit then Moyes should be accountable for hiring sht coaches.
 
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