Moyes So Far!

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Sky1981 said:
This is absurd. Banning journo because he names the line ups? I can understand if its a blatant smearing lies, but its a fecking line up ffs. We do that all the time, so what if some journo can guesss correctly about our line up, it's not a big secret

Im with amir on this, this is not worth a banning.

Besides, it's a risky gambit to pull makin enemy with the media, moyes is not fergie. The press has been quite soft with him, it's just a wrong time to go cocky and play the us against the world card.

I think he's jst using this to show his authority and it will backfire on him
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He's making our leaked line-ups public. I don't think Moyes gives a feck if it's his "job" to compromise us like that or not. If he's broadcasting things that Manchester United don't want him to then he can feck off, simple.
 
I agree with Amir. Journalists are supposed to report information. That's their job. It's the individual leaking things that we should aim our ire at.
 
Ryan's Beard said:
He's making our leaked line-ups public. I don't think Moyes gives a feck if it's his "job" to compromise us like that or not. If he's broadcasting things that Manchester United don't want him to then he can feck off, simple.
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He's not compromising us. The person leaking the information is.
 
What if someone from OT leaked the Giggs story too? Should the journalist reporting that be banned too because "MUFC dislikes it!" ?! It's silly.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
What if someone from OT leaked the Giggs story too? Should the journalist reporting that be banned too because "MUFC dislikes it!" ?! It's silly.
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Oh don't be a bell end. If someone leaked a story about the private life of one of our players that would be down to the player to deal with, potentially with support of the manager given SAF's involvement with protecting our players from the media circus.

This is completely different, it's information about the club and the manager's tactics. It affects Manchester United, not the private life of one player.
 
Ryan's Beard said:
The person leaking it is the source, yes, but without a journo publicising it it wouldn't be as much of an issue.
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Journalists will always publicize it. As long as there's someone leaking information, there will be someone publicizing it. Kill the root of the problem.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Journalists will always publicize it. As long as there's someone leaking information, there will be someone publicizing it. Kill the root of the problem.
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Oh, feck! Why didn't someone just tell Moyes all he has to do is root out the leak? I bet he didn't even think of that.

As it stands we know for a fact that it was this journo putting the information out there. He's putting out information that is for all intents and purposes a corporate secret of United until such time as Moyes decides he's letting it be known. For that he is banned from the club. It doesn't matter how he gets the information, that's a different matter that also needs to be addressed but as it stands this bloke let everyone know our line-up before Moyes wanted anyone to know, so he's not allowed in Old Trafford now.
 
Ryan's Beard said:
Oh don't be a bell end. If someone leaked a story about the private life of one of our players that would be down to the player to deal with, potentially with support of the manager given SAF's involvement with protecting our players from the media circus.

This is completely different, it's information about the club and the manager's tactics. It affects Manchester United, not the private life of one player.
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Don't be utterly daft. It's an example meant to be taken as an example. Interpret it that way.

Also, don't say "If he's broadcasting things united doesnt want him to, he can feck off", if that's not what you actually mean.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Don't be utterly daft. It's an example meant to be taken as an example. Interpret it that way.

Also, don't say "If he's broadcasting things united doesnt want him to, he can feck off", if that's not what you actually mean.
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Well it was a shite example then, wasn't it.

That was obviously exaggeration for effect meant to be taken as exaggeration for effect. Interpret it that way.
 
Ryan's Beard said:
Well it was a shite example then, wasn't it.

That was obviously exaggeration for effect meant to be taken as exaggeration for effect. Interpret it that way.
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Was a pretty good example that completely fell within the meaning of your vague and pointless sentence there.
 
Well you seem to have drifted off the point that banning this journalist who published lineups obtained through less than legitimate channels was entirely justified so I'll leave you be.
 
Let's just get back on topic and be less snipey.

I see the logic that some of you are putting across that it was the only thing we could do in a sense, however, given the sheer size of "media" these days across it's formats, if the leaker wants to get the information out he will, with ease. So this act seems rather meaningless in that respect. And regarding the specific journalist, I don't think many would do very differently. Their jobs revolve around reporting information that others might not be comfortable with at times.
 
Until we find who it is our only means of stopping the information getting out is to go after the people who put it in the public eye. Not only does this get rid of it (even if only temporarily) it also sends the message that United are still not to be fecked with and that using information you get about United through shady, back door sources will do nothing but get you banned. Seems fair to me. It's not like it's a permanent thing either, once we find out who the leak is and get rid of them the journos can come back and do some legitimate reporting.

I understand this "freedom of the press" slant but a few things are important here:
1) It's completely within Moyes' rights to exclude people from his club (business/house/whatever) if he feels that their presence is detrimental to the club
2) It's a fecking team lineup. It's not serious investigative journalism. If this was anything the public needed to know about, seriously, then it wouldn't be some poxy tabloid reporter and...
3) The information did get out (before we could do anything about it), so if it was anything important the damage would have been done and more people would investigate
 
Ryan's Beard said:
Until we find who it is our only means of stopping the information getting out is to go after the people who put it in the public eye. Not only does this get rid of it (even if only temporarily) it also sends the message that United are still not to be fecked with and that using information you get about United through shady, back door sources will do nothing but get you banned. Seems fair to me. It's not like it's a permanent thing either, once we find out who the leak is and get rid of them the journos can come back and do some legitimate reporting.

I understand this "freedom of the press" slant but a few things are important here:
1) It's completely within Moyes' rights to exclude people from his club (business/house/whatever) if he feels that their presence is detrimental to the club
2) It's a fecking team lineup. It's not serious investigative journalism. If this was anything the public needed to know about, seriously, then it wouldn't be some poxy tabloid reporter and...
3) The information did get out (before we could do anything about it), so if it was anything important the damage would have been done and more people would investigate
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You clearly dont understand the "freedom of the press thing" thats very clear.
 
Freedom of press means they can print whatever the feck they want in their paper but United have no obligation to allow these journalists access to the club's facilities. United's decision to ban a football journalist's access to their press conferences has feck all to do with interfering with the freedom of press. He can still get the line-ups from his source and keep getting retweets for his twitter account. What he's doing is obviously not good for United and that's their way of showing that they don't appreciate it.
 
Bestie07 said:
Freedom of press means they can print whatever the feck they want in their paper but United have no obligation to allow these journalists access to the club's facilities. United's decision to ban a football journalist's access to their press conferences has feck all to do with interfering with the freedom of press. He can still get the line-ups from his source and keep getting retweets for his twitter account. What he's doing is obviously not good for United and that's their way of showing that they don't appreciate it.
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Exactly. I honestly don't understand how anyone other than reporters themselves don't understand this concept, and you'd think any half decent journalist would understand not to bite the hand that feeds them. Its like the royal correspondent publishing shit about the royal family then expecting to be invited over for tea with the queen afterwards.

The press can write what they want, they don't get to say how we react to it.
 
Of course it involves the freedom of press. You're telling them that if they print stuff that's legal and uncomfortable to you - but perfectly true - there would be sanctions.

The Guardian journo revealed last night Hart would be back in City's goal today. Will he be banned?
 
I really don't get it.

First, the Mirror journo can keep making our line-ups public - what does he have to lose now he's banned from the press conferences? I'm fairly certain his source can tell him the team on the phone or send it to him in a text or in an email or with smoke signs or whatever - they don't have to secretly hold a whispered conversation during the press conference so banning him achieves a grand total of feck all apart from making the club look petty.

Second, he puts those line-ups out like ten minutes before they are officially confirmed. I very much doubt that's a huge help to the opposition.
 
I'm sure he's been getting the lineups by text or phone anyway. He's not twitting them on Friday's which is when the press conferences are, but before the matches. And listening to Rio, you realise Moyes doesn't tell anyone the lineups early anyway.

The only thing this could get us is sending the message to people in the club that we won't tolerate these leaks. But this should - and I hope was - done directly by sitting them all together and telling them that.
 
Just because we got used to Fergie banning reporters left, right and center, didn't make it right. But heck, at least he says that it was writing lies that brought on most of those incidents.

The Moyes era seemed to involve a sightly different attitude towards the media. I mean, is it a complete coincidence the club opened a Twitter account right after Fergie's retirement?

Sounds funny that we want to use it but have a problem with others using it, involving us. Welcome to the modern world.
 
can't believe that journalist is crying about his sneaky tactics of revealing info we don't want revealed!

I hope he enjoyed his breaking news, as now he won't even get access to the normal day to day stuff...in your face Mirror twat.
 
Amir said:
Of course it involves the freedom of press. You're telling them that if they print stuff that's legal and uncomfortable to you - but perfectly true - there would be sanctions.
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It does not. Visits to Old Trafford are a privilege given freely by a private company. They can revoke that invitation for whatever reason they like. That is not a sanction.

Freedom of the press would be if they were actually bullied or forced into not printing something. That hasn't happened here. All that's happened here is that the subject of the media bulletin has spat their dummy out and gone all "well, feck off then, my door is closed to you" in response. It's petty and doesn't really accomplish anything, but in no way does it restrict the freedom of the press.
 
Amir said:
Just because we got used to Fergie banning reporters left, right and center, didn't make it right. But heck, at least he says that it was writing lies that brought on most of those incidents.

The Moyes era seemed to involve a sightly different attitude towards the media. I mean, is it a complete coincidence the club opened a Twitter account right after Fergie's retirement?

Sounds funny that we want to use it but have a problem with others using it, involving us. Welcome to the modern world.
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What are you on about with right or wrong? It's a private press conference which the club can do whatever they want with regarding attendance. The ban was presumably to put pressure on the Mirror to stop him leaking the line ups , it's the managers prerogative as to when the line ups are released regardless of how little time is between the leak and the official announcement, as soon as it stops he will probably be invited back.
 
Can't believe that so many here are defending the media.. Unbelievable!

Moyes doesn't even need the media, I trust that our supporters are smart enough not to be influenced by fancy headlines (well, maybe not all!)
 
paceme said:
He wasn't at war, he just didn't respect liars and cheats.
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He hated almost all journalists. You might say it was warranted but sometimes he came across as a bit too petty and vindictive, in my opinion. It's not just liars he had problems with, he was also pretty ruthless about journos who were actually telling the truth he didn't want to come out.
 
Siorac said:
He hated almost all journalists. You might say it was warranted but sometimes he came across as a bit too petty and vindictive, in my opinion. It's not just liars he had problems with, he was also pretty ruthless about journos who were actually telling the truth he didn't want to come out.
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That's the way it should be. You do what you got to do to create / or keep an advantage.
 
paceme said:
The ban was presumably to put pressure on the Mirror to stop him leaking the line ups , it's the managers prerogative as to when the line ups are released regardless of how little time is between the leak and the official announcement, as soon as it stops he will probably be invited back.
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It will stop once we put an end to the leak itself. The reporter and paper have no need to do that. Any exclusive information they can get is worth far, far more than boring quotes given to everyone in press conferences.
 
B20 said:
It does not. Visits to Old Trafford are a privilege given freely by a private company. They can revoke that invitation for whatever reason they like. That is not a sanction.

Freedom of the press would be if they were actually bullied or forced into not printing something. That hasn't happened here. All that's happened here is that the subject of the media bulletin has spat their dummy out and gone all "well, feck off then, my door is closed to you" in response. It's petty and doesn't really accomplish anything, but in no way does it restrict the freedom of the press.
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I can see your point. But I think it's a very gray area. 'Do as I say, or you won't get the same treatment your other colleagues do. Shut up, and you'll be fine'. That's a problem for me.

Not an important one anyway, of course. Because it's about football and football lineups. Big deal.
 
SirAF said:
That's the way it should be. You do what you got to do to create / or keep an advantage.
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Yet people regularly call journalists the scum of the earth for precisely that kind of thinking.
 
Siorac said:
Yet people regularly call journalists the scum of the earth for precisely that kind of thinking.
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Well, we are Manchester United supporters - so I'd expect everyone of us to want the best for the club.
 
Amir said:
I can see your point. But I think it's a very gray area. 'Do as I say, or you won't get the same treatment your other colleagues do. Shut up, and you'll be fine'. That's a problem for me.

Not an important one anyway, of course. Because it's about football and football lineups. Big deal.
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This is the same ultimatum offered by anyone with any kind of status and media interest. In the end, if the story is better than than that, you go with it. I am sure the mirror will happily print future lineups in the full knowledge that the journo gets barred from OT PCs.
 
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