Moyes So Far!

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Stack said:
Form is temporary class is permanent.
Time isnt on Rios side though.
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Although he has been class, it is far easier to say that he is most certainly in poor form at the moment. As one poster stated, he is dilly-dallying on the ball when he shouldn't need to. He should get rid of it, pass it to another player. He has made a few errors this season that could have cost us. When you play at the top level, you need to have your best players concentrating at 100%. He is not totally concentrated and as a result, it weakens us at the back. He aimlessly hoofs the ball forward as if we have Peter Crouch in the side. There is simply no need for it. Perhaps it is time for the legend to hang up his boots for once and for all. He has been a brilliant servant to the club and will be well remembered. The last thing he wants is his reputation tarnished because of the way he plays now.
 
Proud_Lyon said:
Although he has been class, it is far easier to say that he is most certainly in poor form at the moment. As one poster stated, he is dilly-dallying on the ball when he shouldn't need to. He should get rid of it, pass it to another player. He has made a few errors this season that could have cost us. When you play at the top level, you need to have your best players concentrating at 100%. He is not totally concentrated and as a result, it weakens us at the back. He aimlessly hoofs the ball forward as if we have Peter Crouch in the side. There is simply no need for it. Perhaps it is time for the legend to hang up his boots for once and for all. He has been a brilliant servant to the club and will be well remembered. The last thing he wants is his reputation tarnished because of the way he plays now.
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How much of that is down to managers instructions? We also saw other players at the back sending the ball long. This last game we saw a different approach so could that be the manager giving different instructions?.
However he has been poor, not just the long ball but other stuff. Marjen said he feared he had lost it completely, my point was that this is unlikely hence the class/form comment. Unfortunately time is against him regaining his form as I bet he calls it a day at the end of this season.
 
Proud_Lyon said:
Although he has been class, it is far easier to say that he is most certainly in poor form at the moment. As one poster stated, he is dilly-dallying on the ball when he shouldn't need to. He should get rid of it, pass it to another player. He has made a few errors this season that could have cost us. When you play at the top level, you need to have your best players concentrating at 100%. He is not totally concentrated and as a result, it weakens us at the back. He aimlessly hoofs the ball forward as if we have Peter Crouch in the side. There is simply no need for it. Perhaps it is time for the legend to hang up his boots for once and for all. He has been a brilliant servant to the club and will be well remembered. The last thing he wants is his reputation tarnished because of the way he plays now.
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He HAS cost us. His defensive display against West Brom was probably one of his worst in his United career, and cost us probably all three points.

It's time for him to move on, and I think even Moyes has recongized that. He'll play the odd home game against some of the weaker sides, but he's no starter anymore. And rightly so.
 
If we add consistency to the performance we saw yesterday, I think we'll be fine. We really need to collect nine points from the last three games this year.

I just hope Moyes will continue to pick Evans & Jones together at the back and Rafael on the right hand side.
 
rio's upper lip said:
He HAS cost us. His defensive display against West Brom was probably one of his worst in his United career, and cost us probably all three points.

It's time for him to move on, and I think even Moyes has recongized that. He'll play the odd home game against some of the weaker sides, but he's no starter anymore. And rightly so.
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What I meant to say that his last outing was a terrible one where he had made at least two errors and they could have proved costly.
 
You never know at Rio's age at what stage you 'jump the shark', as they say on TV. We saw Scholes make a great comeback from retirement, terrific half season, but the next season he was already gone. Rio did very well last season... This season he's been a disaster. Whether has it in him to recover from that, who knows.

It can't be all about age, though. I don't believe you lose passing skills with age. The "modern Bobby Moore" has been going more long ball than playing it short from the back for quite some time.
 
You can sense a gradual stabilization taking place - he's getting a better feel for the players, and as such, the appropriate lineups. The players seem more relaxed and are regaining their Fergie mojo.
 
Its definitely looking better so far but he needs to follow it up by introducing better quality to that central midfield in Jan otherwise there will be a set back performance wise at some point. We simply don't have enough quality in that area to compete with Europe's top clubs.
 
BAMSOLA said:
Its definitely looking better so far but he needs to follow it up by introducing better quality to that central midfield in Jan otherwise there will be a set back performance wise at some point. We simply don't have enough quality in that area to compete with Europe's top clubs.
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I'm not sure whether there the appropriate player is available in Jan, and I'd hate us to spunk a lot of money on someone as a panic buy that undercuts our budget for next summer.
 
He's done well in the cups but the league is still the big issue. Until he has us churning out win after win in the league I wouldn't say he's turned a corner.
 
I quite like the fact he spends most of his time in the technical box coordinating tactics etc, previously we would get Fergie when required but otherwise Phelan would just stand there like a right lemon.
 
I'm confident enough that he understands the players he's got now, which should see us in top four form. His next job is to get those reinforcements in to make us a title worthy team for next season.
 
I'll say it till I'm blue in the face, no matter what the caftards say. Moyes will be given at three seasons to prove his worth...no doubt about it. Things will start to change as he stamps his style and influence over the team and team building. Fergie Charlton and yes...even Gill who is still sort of around will support him. Those that say he will be given only one or two seasons are living in cloud cookoo land...and yes I know I didn't spell that right....
 
I would not as far as saying there is a stabllisation or United are regaining the Fergie mojo. We have come off two successive home defeats and managed a nice run of 3 wins with 3 clean sheets. For the first time this season we have won the last two games in a row quite comfortably.

The next four league games are crucial and we go into them without Rooney(at least the first one), RVP or Carrick. The number of points we pick up there and how far we are off the top four is going to be very important for Moyes.
 
togg said:
I'll say it till I'm blue in the face, no matter what the caftards say. Moyes will be given at three seasons to prove his worth...no doubt about it. Things will start to change as he stamps his style and influence over the team and team building. Fergie Charlton and yes...even Gill who is still sort of around will support him. Those that say he will be given only one or two seasons are living in cloud cookoo land...and yes I know I didn't spell that right....
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Well, it all depends on how he fares doesn't it. He won't last three seasons if, let's say, we finish 6th this year and 8th the next.
 
Nate Dogg said:
I quite like the fact he spends most of his time in the technical box coordinating tactics etc, previously we would get Fergie when required but otherwise Phelan would just stand there like a right lemon.
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Yeah but he was still better than Phil Neville.
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
He's done well in the cups but the league is still the big issue. Until he has us churning out win after win in the league I wouldn't say he's turned a corner.
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Winning in all comps is better because it creates a broader sense of momentum and confidence within the squad. Our main issue has been squad cohesion, getting the squad to play as a single organism, and its quite evident he's made significant progress in that regard, despite not having our best players available in recent weeks. If our squad are playing with confidence, then we will be in a very strong position going into the new year, especially with RvP, Carrick, and Rooney all playing.
 
Excellent sub. Bringing on Hernandez for Anderson won us the match. Stoke couldn't handle us after that.

Don't want to speak too soon, but United seem happier the last week or 2. Despite a poor league position, I can certainly see more positives than negatives so far.
 
We're genuinely starting to play some nice passing football again. Hopefully that's an end to the long ball nonsense of early season.
 
Raoul said:
I'm not sure whether there the appropriate player is available in Jan, and I'd hate us to spunk a lot of money on someone as a panic buy that undercuts our budget for next summer.
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Jan is fine as long as you identify the right players and are prepared to force a clubs hand to sell the players. Its all about the correct offer but there are also quite a few players with expiring contract who could come and do a very good job for us.
 
Its a shame that many positives are still just being outweighed by some very low points. Im confident we can turn a corner in terms of winning games (We may have done so) and there is a lot still to play for this season. We might end up pleasantly surprised.

Anyway, of the 3 managers to take over the 3 top clubs in the summer, they are performing as follows:

David Moyes:........... P 26 W 15 D 6 L 5......51pts
Jose Mourinho:........ P 26 W 16 D 4 L 6......52pts
Manuel Pellegrini....... P 25 W 18 D 2 L 5.......56pts

Obviously the points totals are largely irrelevant and are influenced by cup draws (Where we played all PL teams incidentally) but the figures show very little between the managers in terms of results, which so many try argue is all a manager should be judged on. I think Moyes is doing quite well but his lowers have just been lower than the others because of the manner of the home defeats. You could argue he inherited the biggest job also in replacing Ferguson and lots of rebuilding to do despite winning the title last year. City and chelsea had the opposite, good squads poorly managed last year and invested heavily in summer. I think the results from all just prove that in any new managers reign there will be inconsistency while changes occur. Moyes has had very bad luck with injuries to date.

To look at areas where he deserves credit:

Januzaj. Weve always given youth a chance but its been a while since someone so young, and this type of player has been given such a chance so soon. Hes handling him very well so far and optimising him

Rooney, he inherited an absolute nightmare there and has so far handled it brilliantly. Remains to be seen what rooney wants.

Cups. Champions league group well topped and unbeaten and now potentially a cup final to look forward to. For somebody put under so much pressure by people looking at his performance in terms if winning things, he is making a good go of competing on other fronts, despite poor league form. Lots questioned how he would manage in europe. If we do what we should against Olympiakos we will be in the QF for the first time since 2011.

The defence. Before you think im mad, ill explain. Its obvious that evans, jones, smalling and rafael will make up our defence in years to come and we are just beginning to see them take over from the old guard, and doing so competently

He seems to have managed to get a reaction from some players I genuinely thought simply were not up to it. Since the low point of newcastle, cleverley valencia, welbeck have all looked much better. perhaps young will follow suit.

I still think hes on track for a succesful first season considering who he replaced. Only when this has been achieved though, will the fans anxiety start to ease.
 
Credit where credit is due after a dodgy start David Moyes has started to make the right calls and its showing.

It is no surprise that the team's upturn in form coincided with Moyes' press conference where he took responsibility on himself and started to protect the players. No more excuses, no more finger pointing, no more saying we don't have the 5 or 6 players to win the European Cup. Moyes put himself out there as a shield for his players and they have responded.

Despite what some have claimed we do not have a bad squad, we had a squad badly in need of a confidence boost. Our players were not playing badly because they woke up one morning and forgot how good they are. They were low on morale, their performances showed that, and some of what Moyes did and said early on was IMO damaging to their self-belief. Moyes has clearly learned from that, he´s now saying all the right things to get the best out of his squad and if he carries on we really can turn this season around.
 
#07 said:
Credit where credit is due after a dodgy start David Moyes has started to make the right calls and its showing.

It is no surprise that the team's upturn in form coincided with Moyes' press conference where he took responsibility on himself and started to protect the players. No more excuses, no more finger pointing, no more saying we don't have the 5 or 6 players to win the European Cup. Moyes put himself out there as a shield for his players and they have responded.

Despite what some have claimed we do not have a bad squad, we had a squad badly in need of a confidence boost. Our players were not playing badly because they woke up one morning and forgot how good they are. They were low on morale, their performances showed that, and some of what Moyes did and said early on was IMO damaging to their self-belief. Moyes has clearly learned from that, he´s now saying all the right things to get the best out of his squad and if he carries on we really can turn this season around.
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Good point fella.
 
#07 said:
Credit where credit is due after a dodgy start David Moyes has started to make the right calls and its showing.

It is no surprise that the team's upturn in form coincided with Moyes' press conference where he took responsibility on himself and started to protect the players. No more excuses, no more finger pointing, no more saying we don't have the 5 or 6 players to win the European Cup. Moyes put himself out there as a shield for his players and they have responded.

Despite what some have claimed we do not have a bad squad, we had a squad badly in need of a confidence boost. Our players were not playing badly because they woke up one morning and forgot how good they are. They were low on morale, their performances showed that, and some of what Moyes did and said early on was IMO damaging to their self-belief. Moyes has clearly learned from that, he´s now saying all the right things to get the best out of his squad and if he carries on we really can turn this season around.
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I think we were at this point a couple of months ago. Oh, Moyes is learning, he's finding things out, we're looking better - and BOOM, we're once again dropping points left, right and center. I'll never be convinced by Moyes until he can string together a 2-3 month period with good results. That doesn't necessarily mean a 15 game winning streak, but results that the United of old could be familiar with. A couple of decent away wins against some dodgy teams, especially with the players he's got as his disposal, isn't very impressive taking the season so far into consideration. He needs to show way, way more than this.
 
Great to see Moyes having faith in Young and the subsequent payoff. He needs to use the same approach with Nani. Ultimately, our success this year will hinge on Moyes squeezing the best out of each player. If he does so, it will be far more beneficial to our final league position than panic buying a midfielder during the January window.
 
Kid Cunto said:
The League Cup could play a massive role in Manchester United's season. Never thought I'd say that.
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You never know exactly what the effect was, but winning the league cup in 2006 was seen a springboard for a team that had a few disappointing years but was going to be brilliant and win a whole lot.

The last three games have obviously brought smiles back to our faces, with three wins and clean sheets, a good performance at Villa and a good last 30 minutes yesterday. We're certainly clinging to every positive sign and this is another one. I just hope it carries us through the Christmas period because we really need to make it last in the league (we've only one a grand total of one consecutive game there...) in order to pull ourselves back up towards the top four.

I just wish people stopped the comparisons to Mourinho and Pellegrini. Niether has had a brilliant start but both are a bit ahead of us in league and City's played some incredible stuff this season. Over the years we've seen coaches and manager come into a team and start well then crumble, start well and continue well, start badly and improve, start badly and continue badly. I'm only interested in ourselves. We've not been doing well enough. Hopefully it's changing now. Christmas would be massive because if it turns out we haven't turned the corner (Oh, I feel like Houllier), I'm not sure where we go from here (other than the transfer window, which won't be enough).
 
togg said:
Doesn't matter..even if that happens I believe he won't be sacked....It will be the third season where he will be seriously judged and success will be totally necessary
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I disagree with this, there should be serious questions raised if Moyes takes the champions of England to a midtable position. I think many of us agreed that we most likely wouldn't have won the league this season but I don't think anyone expected a massive decline as this. That said I really hope Moyes can turn things around and prove he is the right man for the job.
 
We just need to put a run together in the League. We were all optimistic that we'd kick on from the Leverkusen game, but got 1 point from the next three games.

We have 5 games (in the League) now where under Fergie we'd all be very sure that we'd be getting 13-15 points. Moyes has to prove that he can put a run together when we need it, at a time when our rivals will be dropping points.

I'd imagine in the next 5 games our rivals would be happy with around 10 points each. If we managed to get 15 we'd be right back within 5~ points of the leaders, with 6 teams between 40-45 points.

I'd say by the evening of 11th January we'll know what Moyes is made of: we'll be playing 7 games in 22 days and success will be deemed as dropping no more than 2 points in the League, qualifying for the 4th round of the FA Cup and being favourites going back to Old Trafford in the League Cup. It's sink or swim.
 
togg said:
Doesn't matter..even if that happens I believe he won't be sacked....It will be the third season where he will be seriously judged and success will be totally necessary
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He may survive a year without UCL (though I don't think that it will be as easy as you're saying) but there isn't a chance that he'll be on the job on third year if he fails to get into top 4 for two consecutive seasons.

First of all - in that hypothetical case - the opinion of SAF would matter feck all to Glazers IMO. As good as he was, I don't think that the owners would be happy of losing a ton of money because of him. Second, I think that SAF would not support him if he is a complete disaster. Fergie is a stubborn person but he always has shown that he can adapt.
 
togg said:
Doesn't matter..even if that happens I believe he won't be sacked....It will be the third season where he will be seriously judged and success will be totally necessary
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Why the third season specifically? I would say 2 seasons is enough to make an objective assessment to be honest. That is 4 transfer windows and 2 pre-seasons with a squad that is littered with young talent and genuine experience.
 
The next 3 league games are must-win, no excuses. West-Ham, Hull and Norwich are games a title winning side pass through with plenty to spare. Everton will drop points in the next 3-4 games so we need to pressure them and get on the tails of the top four. We will then be nicely placed and give ourselves a realistic chance of breaking in.

This is the time to get back into the mix and for Moyes to prove he is a Manchester United manager. Momentum and confidence is so important and he needs to create and foster that with care. He knows what we have seen so far is not good enough by a long way and it needs to change.
 
One game at a time as they say - but if I'm honest I'd say the next 5 are there for the taking.

West Ham at OT
Norwich away
Hull away
Sputtering Spurs at OT
Swansea at OT

Rooney should return v West Ham (or at least be available), and Carrick may return on Boxing day which would be a massive boost given he will be returning to a side with more confidence than when he left. If we get 13 out of 15 or better we will probably reduce the 10 point gap to half and be near 4th - just in time for RvP to return.

Arsenal are likely to drop points against the likes of Chelsea and away to Newcastle.
Chelsea, in addition to playing Arsenal, have difficult fixtures against Southampton and Liverpool
City have will have to deal with Liverpool without Aguero and again away to Newcastle, probably also without Aguero
Liverpool have City and Chelsea within a three day period starting boxing day.

All in all, we should be in a much stronger position after the next 5 as there is little pressure on us compared to the top 5, who will be siphoning points off one another in the coming weeks.
 
Giving him credit for rooney and januzaj is pathetic. It's likr applauding a driver for not forgetting to release the handbrake. With young and valencia form, it doesnt take a fecking genious to try januzaj.

And if he doesnt get near top 4 in 2 season, what makes you think he'll win the leaque on his third season.


And a win against aston fecking villa.... Is not turning corner, we are manchester united, even everton are favorites againsy them
 
Sunny Jim said:
i think two back to back defeats at OT was the breaking point. i think something happened then, something must have been said...have a feeling we will go for a good run now
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It's important not to think we've turned things around too much yet, we were very fortunate to beat Shakthar, got deservedly beaten by Newcastle and were also poor in defeat against Everton. That's our last 3 home games, away from home we've not been too bad but we've been generally pretty poor at home (Leverkusen and the 1st half against Arsenal being the exceptions). The run we have, including a rubbish West Ham side at Old Trafford, should give us a chance to build a bit of confidence and then hopefully we'll be looking at a much more positive situation where we're closer to the top 4 while still having the cup competitions to look forward to.
 
.Rossi said:
Get to within 7 points of the leaders within the next couple of weeks and we might just be on the right track.

We need to go on a big run. No question about that
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Win our next five and we will be within 7 or better, which would be fantastic given RvP would be returning shortly after.
 
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