Moyes So Far!

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7even said:
I don't think for a second Moyes will do what I suggest but this is things I think is necessary sooner or later. This is old news for the majority on this forum but let's hope it's also inside Moyes mind.

1. We need two formations that the players are comfortable with. One set up against teams we expect to dominate against and one set up against teams who are equal or better then us.

a) Our original set up with two midfielders and two forwards.
b) A reinvented set up with three midfielders and one striker.

2. Another thing we need to learn better is to press the opponents all over the pitch. How to use the off side rule in our favor by pushing the defense as high as possible to make our team more compact. To do that we have to release or sell defenders like Rio, Evra and Vidic. All of them have lost to much pace and acceleration to play high press defense against teams with forwards with pace and strength.

3. Midfielders. Two real quality mf, probably three in the next two or three windows. This means goodbye for Anderson and probably Fletcher next summer. I assume that we keep Clev but to be honest so far this season he has shown nothing who suggest that he's good enough for a top team. Maybe Giggs will continue another season but I don't count him in, he's just a bonus. We need one creative playmaker, one b2b and one DM to totally solve our mf crisis. Fellaini is the joker in this equation. I don't know where to put him and why we bought him in the first place. Moyes biggest mistake.

4. It's hard to keep so many wing players on board when Januzaj is making himself a natural starter. I assume that we soon send young Zaha out on loan and sell one of Young, Nani or Valencia. So far Young is my bet but things can change.

5. Forwards. This is the tricky part. Both Roo and RvP is high earners, profile players and starters when they are fit, but in a three man midfield some of these two have to sacrifice their preferred position in order to make the new system works. My bet is that we sell at least one forward in the summer, probably Chicarito. Wellz is local so he will probably stay but to be honest he's not a natural goal scorer. Tricky.

6. Who will go this summer? Rio, Evra, Ando and one forward is my bet. The summer 2015 I assume that Vidic and one of the wing players is on the list, probably followed by Giggs. In the summer of 2016 it's time to see if Carrick continue and if RvP is still around. I also have question marks for Cleverley, I just think he isn't talented enough.

7. Then the most important thing. David Moyes himself. He needs to change his approach and mentality. More arrogance and a tougher personality. IMO he also needs to sack his assistant manager and find a more experienced tactician who have a more modern view of the game. So far our tactic looks clueless and out dated. I don't know who's to blame but maybe a offer trolley will help his position.

This is a radical make over but if Moyes want to survive he need changes all over the place. Fire old favorites is hard but if he's brave enough he reap the reward later on.
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Tbf, we're clearly underperformed and Moyes should take considerable blame for it, but I also think some of it is a lot or pure bad luck in terms of how games have gone (there really wasn't much difference bar that bit of luck in the games against Everton, Toon and Shaktar, yet results are complete opposites), injuries to key players with corresponding squad players really hitting low spells. A lot of players will go through a rough patch so I don't think it's necessarily Moyes not being able to motivate Clev for example and he clearly knows how to use Fellaini and get him fired up but sometimes players just hit bad spells and ours seem to have hit at the worst time. I'd say Valencia is playing a bit better than last season, Rooney is clearly playing better and the rest of the players I'd say aren't really much off where they were last season bar Carrick/RVP who have reportedly been carrying injuries most the season, well Carrick has. We've not heard of players causing problems so don't think a big change is needed there.

In terms of your points as you said they're not really unknown issues and I think Moyes is aware of them but having not got the required players in the summer and others not around/performing there's only so much he can do.

1. I'm sure Moyes realises this but he's hindered by players available and their form. For example had Carrick been fit, or Clev/Fellaini playing as they can we might have seen a 433 more or the 451 and when we have utilised a different formation as with Shaktar away it might have been more effective. Formations are only as good as the players utilising them, the midfieders we've had available have under performed completely and don't think the fotmaiton would change that too much.

2.Agree that we should press better and do need to play higher up the pitch, I don't think we need to get rid of all the older heads but it's definitely worth considering sacrificing some experience for younger players with greater energy/legs. Plus only way they will develop is through playing.

3.Moyes clearly accepts we need midfielders, went pretty wrong in the summer but hopefully will get it right in Jan/Summer. I don't see the issue with keeping clev, giggs and fletch, need squad players. Add at least one quality player and maybe another and hopefully that wil sort the issue. We know he wants a creative type so that's a good start and whilst i never really wanted fellaini i know he can do better than he is.

4. Agree, with the emergence of Januzaj and kagawa, welbeck, zaha around then we don't need Young anymore.

5.I think with this it's a case of sorting the midfield/wingers. A new midfielder with carrick should put us in a much better position to play RVP and Rooney, especially if someone like janizaj becomes more involved because you'd expect him to be allowed to drift inside where he will naturally help to keep possession better by bring a bit closer to the midfielders. Looks like he's taking the role their I'd hoped/hope Kagawa could do. Him on one wing and a more natural winger on the other side and it's a nice balance for me. We can mix it up when we need to, but no reason you can't play two strikers if the players are good enough.

6. Lord knows, think we should be moving on ando, young and buttner but no one else is obvious. Hopefully rio/vidic etc take reduced roles so that the likes of smalling and jones can get the experience they need to develop. Don't think we need a massive overhaul personally.

7. He's not started as well as he should have and some of the things/approachs he's taken do seem odd but I still think he needs more time. Get the key players fit and in form at the same time and I think things will be different, atm we've got key p;layers put and the squad players are really underperforming. I do think he is still too cautious at times and can struggle to get a good balance, ie without giggs then the middle won't create anything so can't see why you'd want valencia and welbeck wide when the former is very ineffficient atm and the latter just isn't going to create or present a threat, and that for me just kills the attack without really adding defensively. I don't know if he needs to sack anyone or bring someone in, as just don't know what they're doing. Everyone needs to step it up though players and coaches.

Ultimately though I don't think any of these are things that aren't known and they're all tied to similar things. We need to improve the midfield and we need the players there to do better than they are. You can change the formation but that won't change people avoiding playing penetrating passes, tracking players etc, all the players there need to step their game up. I mean if we tried a 433 there now with jones, fellaini and clev, well I dread to think how dire that could be and then if you swap kagawa in for one of them or something then it's not hugely different to what we're seeing already and it would have the same problem that unless the deeper midfielders give good passes to someone like kagawa where he can actually turn or play a quick forward ball then he'll either have to come too deep or play a backwards pass and we just won't be able to get much momentum going and i doubt we'd be that much more defensively secure.

For the short term assuming there's no top player free in the summer than I think we need someone in the middle in jan who's experienced and of a good level without necessarily being a top player, that's unrealistic at this time. Get that and carrick fit with hopefully fellaini/clev coming out of their ruts, and then settling on two wide players, for me januzaj and nani and giving them a good run around a front two of rvp/rooney with kagawa coming in when needed and I think things will change pretty sharpish as that middle area as I've said really is the main problem imo. We're not dominating the middle as we should be, the defence aren't protected enough centrally and the attackers aren't given the required service, they're having to come to deep. We can't get any real tempo going because without carrick or giggs playing there's no one to pick the ball up forcefully from deep and this impacts when we're chasing games too as no one is starting the attacks- there's no tempo. As I said for me that all stems from the middle.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
I'll give Moyes one thing. At least he does go or the major signings! I like that!

In modern football, we see how big an impact one player can have on a team. Ronaldo/Madrid, Messi/Barca, Bale/Spurs, Suarez/Liverpool.

I don't think he is speaking about Fabregas either, so it's likely his targets were Fabregas And Ronaldo/Bale. Hopefully next Summer can bring us more luck. I'm very confident we will be in the Champions League.
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Maybe in the summer we'll "make it difficult" for a team to hold onto one of their mediocre players.
 
Sam said:
Just stop talking Moyes. You're becoming embarrassing.
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I know Everton are skint, but did they never invest in media training? The man is clueless. We'll never have to worry about mind games from him through the media.
 
It was Ronaldo, I reckon. Then he stayed because his main reason for returning had retired.
 
I don't fully understand why what he said pisses people off so much, but I also don't understand why he's sort of boasting about almost signing someone. Particularly when that someone chose to go elsewhere.
 
Brophs said:
I don't fully understand why what he said pisses people off so much, but I also don't understand why he's sort of boasting about almost signing someone. Particularly when that someone chose to go elsewhere.
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It's similar to a guy boasting about how he almost pulled a 10 but ended up going home with Jabba the Hutt after the 10 went home with someone else. It's not something to brag about. It's not good enough for United to "almost sign someone" or "almost win."

A number of his comments have been defeatist since he arrived, and this is a perfect example. Why would he say he wants to make it difficult for Newcastle at Old Trafford? He should say that United are going to take it to them and Newcastle will have to try to make it difficult for United. After the loss, he comes out with the tripe that he's more inspired after the loss. What the hell does that mean? We should keep losing until he's suitably motivated to win? For the past two weeks we've been "unlucky" not to win according to him. Even if it's true, it's not something that helps. The team thinking it is unlucky doesn't make them better. It's an excuse and a poor one at that. He approaches everything, seemingly, from an underdog's point of view. He's the manager of Manchester United, not City. He should show some confidence or bravado instead of approaching everything as though he's Eeyore.

Are caftards hanging on his every word in press conference and overanalyzing them? Yes, but when there's nothing to warrant hope on the pitch, fans will look elsewhere. And at the moment, hopes doesn't spring eternal, or even temporarily, from Moyes. If we're going to "work harder," what the hell were we doing before? Loafing around?
 
I feel a bit bad for Moyes at the moment. Almost whatever he says and do now will be mocked due to his bad start. Although I do understand the frustrations involved in it.
 
I don't understand the blame leveled at Moyes.

He has inherited a squad full of problems but with some bright spots.

Except for the summer's transfer negligence. Fellaini was and will always be a farce.
 
He's does come out with the strangest comments. So in the last week we've learned that you kept van Persie playing for the full 90 minutes despite the fact he was barely fit (if that)...just in case someone questioned his intentions by taking off our best player and now we learn he almost signed a worldie.

Sometimes its best not to say anything. And FYI I'm not angered by this or anything...more of a head scratcher. Transfer stuff should stay in house especially when you didn't get your man.
 
Galactic said:
I feel a bit bad for Moyes at the moment. Almost whatever he says and do now will be mocked due to his bad start. Although I do understand the frustrations involved in it.
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Yeah same here. He's taken responsibility which is all one can reasonably expect from a manager.
 
ISSYNAZAR said:
Transfer stuff should stay in house especially when you didn't get your man.
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He was indirectly asked about it by the press. He could not possibly say something like "no comment" to it, or it might be seen as he did not try hard enough or even seen as getting nowhere near getting them (which is not something we associate united with). Plus, many still question his ambition on getting world class players so he probably needed to quash it. And he also needed to quash another direct suggestion that the owners are not willing to give him enough spending money.
 
Pointless quotes from Moyes, but then then these kind of quotes aren't a manager just offering up chat randomly, he's answering press questions.

Could be either Bale or Ronaldo from his quotes, one is the went to another club, and one is the situation change he mentions.

Almost good we didn't get Bale if the rumoured ridiculous £100m bid was correct!

Horrible end to his piece saying the big deal they were after won't happen next summer. Great!
 
More from Moyes:
"A few could go if we got the right offer. I've tried to give an opportunity to everybody. Would we sell? If the right offers were there we'd probably look at it. We'll be balancing trying to move people on but also trying to bring people in."
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agree with the part that moyes deserves his time, but failing to get into the champions league would be a disaster and unfortunately, he has to go if he fails to guide the club into the top 4. CL qualification has to be the minimum target at united. given the current situation, the fans are quite satisfied enough to be at least 4th, i know it hurts but post sir alex, these are the kind of things that we have feared and expected to face.

i hope moyes will get the right players in come january. not the best time to sign players but if he can get the right players in, maybe it will change his fortune here. i hope he has learned from his mistake of signing someone like fellaini. never understand the reason of signing fellaini because we all know he has never been excellent at CM and at everton he was the number 10 who wins ariel balls and create havoc inside the penalty box though long balls, something that even moyes will never try to do and replicate at united. and some of the players in our current squad simply has to go.

scouting mission to spain sounds pretty exciting though, hope he will get in a couple of players that can reignited our form.
 
i don't think we will receive many offers for young, valencia, buttner etc. ando might get his ticket return to the portuguese league.
 
Count Orduck said:
It was Ronaldo, I reckon. Then he stayed because his main reason for returning had retired.
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Either this or really there is something on those stupid reports that we matched Mardid's offer for Bale.

Or perhaps Baines.
 
Revan said:
Either this or really there is something on those stupid reports that we matched Mardid's offer for Bale.

Or perhaps Baines.
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Or even it was Fabregas and we got suckered in to thinking he wanted to come here, when really he was using us. Maybe.
 
Summit said:
Or even it was Fabregas and we got suckered in to thinking he wanted to come here, when really he was using us. Maybe.
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Hopefully they have understand this by now. Anyway, how we were so close to sign him by offering only 25m?
 
Revan said:
Hopefully they have understand this by now. Anyway, how we were so close to sign him by offering only 25m?
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Closer than offering nothing for Ronaldo.
 
Galactic said:
I feel a bit bad for Moyes at the moment.
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So do I. It's his big, big break in football and it's going all wrong. He may or may not have the ability to turn it around and if he doesn't it' his big chance gone and he'll never get another again.

Admittedly, I don't think we should ever have appointed him. Admittedly, while I support him, I don't actual believe in him and think we look elsewhere. But I do like him and wish to be proven dead wrong.
 
Amir said:
So do I. It's his big, big break in football and it's going all wrong. He may or may not have the ability to turn it around and if he doesn't it' his big chance gone and he'll never get another again.

Admittedly, I don't think we should ever have appointed him. Admittedly, while I support him, I don't actual believe in him and think we look elsewhere. But I do like him and wish to be proven dead wrong.
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You dont support him at all. Just have the balls to say so.
 
Ash_G said:
I also think some of it is a lot or pure bad luck in terms of how games have gone (there really wasn't much difference bar that bit of luck in the games against Everton, Toon and Shaktar, yet results are complete opposites).
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I don't think we were really unlucky against Newcastle, but it seems expectations are so much lower if we're looking at those games and talking about luck or bad luck. We created three or four good chances against Everton, but so did they. And since when not scoring from that amount of chances and losing 0-1 would be considered bad luck at United? We'd expect to create a lot more and if we miss ten chances and lose, THAT would be bad luck.

All those games could have ended with a different scoreline, of course. But the bottom line for all three was that we just weren't good enough.
 
Stack said:
You dont support him at all. Just have the balls to say so.
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What is support, though? I live in bloody Israel, if I'm lucky I get to two-three matches a year and last Tuesday against Shakhtar I was singing for Moyes at the Stretford End with the rest. Will do when I get there again, some day.

Doesn't mean I actually believe in him, no. And I don't, but what I'm thinking or even writing on an internet forum hardly has any effect.

Looking at this season, I'm certainly not looking for us to be a part of the title battle and I'm not even fussed about the CL. What I want to see by the end of the season is something to show us he can turn this around. Get this team playing good football. Heck, get them playing like a team, like they know what they are doing.
 
Amir said:
What is support, though? I live in bloody Israel, if I'm lucky I get to two-three matches a year and last Tuesday against Shakhtar I was singing for Moyes at the Stretford End with the rest. Will do when I get there again, some day.

Doesn't mean I actually believe in him, no. And I don't, but what I'm thinking or even writing on an internet forum hardly has any effect.
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I class that as support. Fair play dude.
 
We as fans are expected to back the manager through thick and thin (rightly so too) and before Fergie left this was his last message to the United faithful. I wonder if Fergie left that message for the players too, as at the moment it doesn't seem as if our players are willing to go that extra mile and dig in when things are getting a little bit tough. I hope for Moyes' sake that the players start to play like we know they can.
 
Amir said:
What is support, though? I live in bloody Israel, if I'm lucky I get to two-three matches a year and last Tuesday against Shakhtar I was singing for Moyes at the Stretford End with the rest. Will do when I get there again, some day.

Doesn't mean I actually believe in him, no. And I don't, but what I'm thinking or even writing on an internet forum hardly has any effect.

Looking at this season, I'm certainly not looking for us to be a part of the title battle and I'm not even fussed about the CL. What I want to see by the end of the season is something to show us he can turn this around. Get this team playing good football. Heck, get them playing like a team, like they know what they are doing.
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Of course that is support.

Not every Manchester United fan has to have originally thought that David Moyes was the right appointment. Still getting behind him and the team at matches is what matters even if you aren't convinced he's the right man.
 
That win over arsenal could have been our turning point. fecking international break ruined it imo.
 
Bojan11 said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...Moyes-time-hell-sucess-Manchester-United.html

Have to disagree with Neville. Obviously he wouldn't want Moyes sacked because that would mean Phil going too.

But if things carry on the way there are. With rubbish results and awful performances then we need to consider if he is the right man for the job.
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I'm in complete disagreement with Nev. Idea that it would be more detrimental to change the wrong man after one year than give him 5 more is ridiculous.

Grossly naive article
 
To be honest apart from the departures bit that's a quote right out of the Fergie book. Fergie liked to spread the message we were always going for the top players, he always knew the fans wanted to here it every now and again.

Not so sure about his comments on departures, hopefully a warning shot to players in a bid for them to improve and earn their place.
 
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