Of course he'd have us up there. Thats completely irrelevant because these issues are only happening because he left.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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2001. Derby, Southampton, Chelsea.
It's worth noting, since it keeps being brought up as an excuse, we were doing poor before the recent RVP and Carrick injuries. Granted, we'd just closed the gap by beating Arsenal and got ourselves up to a season-high of 5th in the league before they both picked up their knocks, but we've been languishing around midtable the whole season, basically, and performances have been consistently bad throughout.
Reading Fergie's new autobiography these days highlighted to me how many big things happen at the club without us knowing about them, and how we can never really know what goes on in the minds of the manager and his staff. I was really surprised at the way Fergie, for instance, really criticized the way we (starting with himself, of course) made some signings without looking into them enough. Just made me wonder what goes on in the minds of the people in charge at OT.
On a more serious note. I was in England for a few days until today, Manchester mostly, but was also lucky enough that the UK champs in York took place during that time so I went there a couple of times to watch matches. During one free hour I was looking for something to do and ended up at the Railway museum, where, among others things between the old trains, I saw a picture of a woman from decades ago and thought she was familiar. It's a cellphone photo and not great, but am I alone in this?...
On a more serious note. I was in England for a few days until today, Manchester mostly, but was also lucky enough that the UK champs in York took place during that time so I went there a couple of times to watch matches. During one free hour I was looking for something to do and ended up at the Railway museum, where, among others things between the old trains, I saw a picture of a woman from decades ago and thought she was familiar. It's a cellphone photo and not great, but am I alone in this?...
http://futnsoccer.com/2013/12/13/5-reasons-david-moyes-failed-manchester-united/
Came across this article online, thought it was very good and seems to sum up the situation pretty accurately.
Came across this article online, thought it was very good and seems to sum up the situation pretty accurately.
I don't think for a second Moyes will do what I suggest but this is things I think is necessary sooner or later. This is old news for the majority on this forum but let's hope it's also inside Moyes mind.
1. We need two formations that the players are comfortable with. One set up against teams we expect to dominate against and one set up against teams who are equal or better then us.
a) Our original set up with two midfielders and two forwards.
b) A reinvented set up with three midfielders and one striker.
2. Another thing we need to learn better is to press the opponents all over the pitch. How to use the off side rule in our favor by pushing the defense as high as possible to make our team more compact. To do that we have to release or sell defenders like Rio, Evra and Vidic. All of them have lost to much pace and acceleration to play high press defense against teams with forwards with pace and strength.
3. Midfielders. Two real quality mf, probably three in the next two or three windows. This means goodbye for Anderson and probably Fletcher next summer. I assume that we keep Clev but to be honest so far this season he has shown nothing who suggest that he's good enough for a top team. Maybe Giggs will continue another season but I don't count him in, he's just a bonus. We need one creative playmaker, one b2b and one DM to totally solve our mf crisis. Fellaini is the joker in this equation. I don't know where to put him and why we bought him in the first place. Moyes biggest mistake.
4. It's hard to keep so many wing players on board when Januzaj is making himself a natural starter. I assume that we soon send young Zaha out on loan and sell one of Young, Nani or Valencia. So far Young is my bet but things can change.
5. Forwards. This is the tricky part. Both Roo and RvP is high earners, profile players and starters when they are fit, but in a three man midfield some of these two have to sacrifice their preferred position in order to make the new system works. My bet is that we sell at least one forward in the summer, probably Chicarito. Wellz is local so he will probably stay but to be honest he's not a natural goal scorer. Tricky.
6. Who will go this summer? Rio, Evra, Ando and one forward is my bet. The summer 2015 I assume that Vidic and one of the wing players is on the list, probably followed by Giggs. In the summer of 2016 it's time to see if Carrick continue and if RvP is still around. I also have question marks for Cleverley, I just think he isn't talented enough.
7. Then the most important thing. David Moyes himself. He needs to change his approach and mentality. More arrogance and a tougher personality. IMO he also needs to sack his assistant manager and find a more experienced tactician who have a more modern view of the game. So far our tactic looks clueless and out dated. I don't know who's to blame but maybe a offer trolley will help his position.
This is a radical make over but if Moyes want to survive he need changes all over the place. Fire old favorites is hard but if he's brave enough he reap the reward later on.
1. We need two formations that the players are comfortable with. One set up against teams we expect to dominate against and one set up against teams who are equal or better then us.
a) Our original set up with two midfielders and two forwards.
b) A reinvented set up with three midfielders and one striker.
2. Another thing we need to learn better is to press the opponents all over the pitch. How to use the off side rule in our favor by pushing the defense as high as possible to make our team more compact. To do that we have to release or sell defenders like Rio, Evra and Vidic. All of them have lost to much pace and acceleration to play high press defense against teams with forwards with pace and strength.
3. Midfielders. Two real quality mf, probably three in the next two or three windows. This means goodbye for Anderson and probably Fletcher next summer. I assume that we keep Clev but to be honest so far this season he has shown nothing who suggest that he's good enough for a top team. Maybe Giggs will continue another season but I don't count him in, he's just a bonus. We need one creative playmaker, one b2b and one DM to totally solve our mf crisis. Fellaini is the joker in this equation. I don't know where to put him and why we bought him in the first place. Moyes biggest mistake.
4. It's hard to keep so many wing players on board when Januzaj is making himself a natural starter. I assume that we soon send young Zaha out on loan and sell one of Young, Nani or Valencia. So far Young is my bet but things can change.
5. Forwards. This is the tricky part. Both Roo and RvP is high earners, profile players and starters when they are fit, but in a three man midfield some of these two have to sacrifice their preferred position in order to make the new system works. My bet is that we sell at least one forward in the summer, probably Chicarito. Wellz is local so he will probably stay but to be honest he's not a natural goal scorer. Tricky.
6. Who will go this summer? Rio, Evra, Ando and one forward is my bet. The summer 2015 I assume that Vidic and one of the wing players is on the list, probably followed by Giggs. In the summer of 2016 it's time to see if Carrick continue and if RvP is still around. I also have question marks for Cleverley, I just think he isn't talented enough.
7. Then the most important thing. David Moyes himself. He needs to change his approach and mentality. More arrogance and a tougher personality. IMO he also needs to sack his assistant manager and find a more experienced tactician who have a more modern view of the game. So far our tactic looks clueless and out dated. I don't know who's to blame but maybe a offer trolley will help his position.
This is a radical make over but if Moyes want to survive he need changes all over the place. Fire old favorites is hard but if he's brave enough he reap the reward later on.
Now? Relegation. But, realistically - 3 years, without a trophy. Much like what Fergie went through
Moyes needs to pack the midfield. Change the formation and do not play two traditional wingers. More of a 4-1-4-1 type of. With two central advanced midfielders in front of a deep lying one. Defending high, both closer to goal and in the traditional No 10 role. Getting even in front of the CF. In line with the two "wingers ". Again, defending high - quick to get in the box
IMHO
IMHO
We havent even been through the xmas break yet and people are panicking. 15 league games in and the sky is falling. Everyone needs to lighten the feck up. Anyone with even half a brain would have worked out before Moyes started that this season was going to be really difficult, it would have been this way even if it had of been another coach. Moyes has got some things wrong but he has also walked in to more than one hospital pass.
If you didnt think it would be difficult or you expected the Man Utd machinery to roll on towards another title etc then you are a fecking moron. Its that simple.
If you didnt think it would be difficult or you expected the Man Utd machinery to roll on towards another title etc then you are a fecking moron. Its that simple.
We've been shit. It's THAT simple. 20+ games in is a substantial amount of games. Moyes has been anything but convincing so far. There hasn't been any improvement at all. We're much worse than last season, and we've dropped as many points as we did last year. That's down to management. There is no excuse for Moyes delivering mid table results almost halfway into the season. It's not at all unreasonable to expect that we'll do at least a bit better than this.
What a strangely aggressive and frustrated post.
No, you musn't say anything. What do you think this is, a FORUM?!?
I expected Moyes to find it tough but not like anything we've witnessed so far and he unfortunately hasn't been helped by injuries to extremely important players.
I didnt expect it to be so tough either but considering we didnt strengthen MF over the summer I was definitely concerned
Good post.
It's very worrying that Moyes seems to be utterly clueless in how to manage Van Persies training methods the right way to prevent him from constantly getting injured.
It's a bit early to say that, but agree things aren't looking that great. I don't think that there is the same training regime for all players (if there is than they really are retarded) but it looked that RVP was rushed a bit for Newcastle game (probably in a desperate atempt to win the game which was difficult without Rooney) which now doesn't look a great decision. As alastair said, he suffered a lot from Wenger rushing him in all those years considering how important was him for the team. In the last two years he seemed to have been managed better but also has been more lucky when it come to injuries.
By all accounts, the training is not tailored. Rvp has simply been over-worked. Those who play sports regularly know that injury is from fatigued muscles
By which all accounts? So far we have a Dutch fitness coach who criticizes every team on the planet who has talked about that.
Because those two sides are sitting at second and third place in the league while we are not.
Plenty of sources been reporting the training concerns. Have a read at latest RI.
RI? Unlike them to complain irrationally...
All based on that Dutch coach.
It's really not at all. He's one of many talking about the same thing.
If you want to think its all based on one rather unhinged Dutchman then go ahead mate - I'd love it to be. But the stories have been coming from the first week of pre season
They're only reporting what multiple people are telling them. To be fair to them on this case, they're not peddling any agenda.
I did love that logic, let's compare Moyes to Pellegrini and Mourinho rather than Ferguson, his record is still shit compared to them, but hey, at least it's a bit less shit. Mourinho has taken over a worse squad (they don't have any quality strikers for God's sake) yet Chelsea are currently 11 points (it will probably be eight, but only because Villa are without Delph to piss all over our midfield) ahead of us after 16 games having already played us at Old Trafford. Even if we compare Moyes to managerial giants such as Martinez, Rodgers or Alan fecking Pardew he's doing a shit job, there's no amount of stats or comparisons that will make his record seem more palatable, the reason for that is simple; it's shit.
On the other hand, and for reasons unknown to me, I do rather like Moyes and think he will get it right, and I am quite confident we will win our next six games and be a few points off fourth by mid January. It is possible that I'm mad though, or overdosed on flu medicine.
Get yourself to the hospital mate - immediate check up required! Ha ha.
I can't see where you are getting us winning the next 6 from - ill be flabbergasted if we win tomorrow.
What reports matey?
Also, it isn't anything strange with injuries. Year after year we have been one of the clubs (usually together with Arsenal) with the most injuries on the league. Just that is has happened to two of our best players at the same time doesn't mean that it is anything different. Last years there were Rooney, Nani, Vidic, Rafael etc all injured for many games. We had to play Carrick multiple times on defense. We had to play Fletcher on defense against Milan. Pretty much these many injuries is the norm for us, not the exception.
They're all relatively easy if the players remember how to play football. I recognise it's a pretty big if though.
Not fair to post on here but have a read at the fanzines if you get a chance - you'll get quite a bit from them. A few lads post on here will tell you the same. Concerns have been there from the start on Moyes preference for physical work over work with a ball.
Agreed on the injuries pal - but the players didn't complain in the past (not that we heard anyway). Rvp has had words with Moyes about the impact of the current training regime on his fitness. He also played him for 90 mins when every man and his dog could see he wasn't anywhere near being fit - then were surprised when he gets injured? What makes it worse was he admitted to not taking him off because "he would have been questioned". It's his job to make decisions like that and he only has himself to blame for losing the player for 4 weeks.
We do always seem to have been unlucky right enough. Suppose we shall see how this pans out
The bolded part is a bit strange. You are agreeing that we haven't heard anything this year, but then write that we haven't heard anything in the past, so is the same, right?
RVP shouldn't have played (let alone played the entire game) against Newcastle IMO. It looked like a desperate attempt to win us the game, which backfired, agree with that. About the training, still early to say anything, during the past years Everton usually had a better injury record than us, let's see how things so.
We can't be certain regarding Van Persie. But when you look at players who had regular injuries (Giggs, Rio) and mostly got over them with special training, then you have Van Persie who had tons of injuries and then was suddenly free of them for 2.5 years, only to get a few injuries again, you do wonder what has changed.
Apples and oranges. The players you mentioned kept getting the same injury. RvP had a variety. I think the implication that Moyes' training is responsible is unfair. We can't know that.
Added to the fact that you have the same fitness team there as under SAF (Strudwick et al) so they are fully aware of the individual needs of all players bar Zaha and Fellaini from last year.
One thing I would say on training as we really do have limited knowledge of it aside from it by all accounts being quite focused on physical fitness, is that it doesn't seem to be translating on the pitch. I mean Rooney looks leaner and has benefited, but it's not like you'd say that other players are showing more energy than last season or showing high energy levels. That's been one of our biggest issues with the play lacking energy. Though suppose you can't leave out the mental factor there. If some players are lacking confidence, not fully focused etc then guess that might overrule their actual physical ability.
Is that supposed to be comforting? Geez Louise. It's like your teacher telling you how insanely close you were to passing your exam, but you still failed. Well, feck you then!
I'll give Moyes one thing. At least he does go or the major signings! I like that!
In modern football, we see how big an impact one player can have on a team. Ronaldo/Madrid, Messi/Barca, Bale/Spurs, Suarez/Liverpool.
I don't think he is speaking about Fabregas either, so it's likely his targets were Fabregas And Ronaldo/Bale. Hopefully next Summer can bring us more luck. I'm very confident we will be in the Champions League.
In modern football, we see how big an impact one player can have on a team. Ronaldo/Madrid, Messi/Barca, Bale/Spurs, Suarez/Liverpool.
I don't think he is speaking about Fabregas either, so it's likely his targets were Fabregas And Ronaldo/Bale. Hopefully next Summer can bring us more luck. I'm very confident we will be in the Champions League.
“Major, major signing” in Moyesy terms = Baines.
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