Moyes So Far!

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amolbhatia100 said:
You're overreacting to some terrible months under a manager who looks a bit clueless.

We have vidic, Rooney, rvp and Carrick as top players ( Carrick's best a level below bit still). De gea seems to be sure to get there as is Rafael if he can keep fit.

Who do City have? Aguero, kompany and toure? Zabaleta?

There's no team in the premierleague which has many more top players than us and only city's squad is as strong as ours IMO with Chelsea probably slightly inferior.
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Aguero, Yaya, Toure, Silva, that's four.

Personally I think RvP and Rooney are the only two in our team you could put in that bracket anymore, Vidic is past his best and I think Carrick is slightly below that level.

Anyway, the problem isn't with our 'top players', it's with the rest of the squad.
 
Irwhine said:
I really really really think that if we managed to get a couple of MF who can link play and put decent forward moving balls to our wingers their play will improve dramatically. Unfortunately when they get the ball now it's generally from a static position or well infront of the fullback. It makes it very hard to beat the man and play a ball in so as this goes on confidence is down. If we had someone who could ping balls to Valancia/Nani the way Scholes used to drive them to Beckham they will soon start performing again. When that happens we will start stretching teams again and they won't be able to press us like they are now.

CM's and a LB and I'll be one happy camper.
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The problem here is that you still want us to rely on crosses into the box. Nothing wrong with that, as long as it's not our only way of trying to create chances. It's too easy to crowd out the strikers in the box and modern defenders deal with crosses a lot better than they did 10 years ago. Crosses simply isn't an effective way to score goals. We need to be able to create chances from the middle of the pitch as well, but the only players who are capable of doing so right now are Carrick, Kagawa and Januzaj. The rest of the players are too ingrained in the 'get the ball out wide' mentality, Rooney included.
 
It's a shame really because it's not all Moyes fault, the best players we have are all ageing, we have defenders who are simply not doing their job, then add to that the lack of interest that some are showing,the likes of Nani.

We miss Carrick badly and the simple facts are that our midfield is simply not creative, Cleverley is over rated, Fellaini is a shadow of the player he was at Everton, Jones is a defender the list goes on.

We need about 4 new players including a left back a couple of midfielders and maybe a central defender , without Ferdinand the defence seems so disorganised.

As for Moyes I never though he was the man for such a big challenge, we needed a bigger character. But now he is here obviously we support him and hope he gets it right.
Whoever took over from SAF had the hardest shoes to step into, but sadly I don't think Moyes feet are big enough to fit. We need a Mouriniho type manager someone who believes he is as good if not better than SAF......I still think Capello could do a good job, his club record is amazing and he carries not only a presence but also the experience of winning

Maybe Moyes is a brilliant cup Manager and we will win the Champions league? (Would Settle for that) .... It's hard to compare the 5-0 away win in the CL to our league performances..Strange
 
amolbhatia100 said:
You're overreacting to some terrible months under a manager who looks a bit clueless.

We have vidic, Rooney, rvp and Carrick as top players ( Carrick's best a level below bit still). De gea seems to be sure to get there as is Rafael if he can keep fit.

Who do City have? Aguero, kompany and toure? Zabaleta?

There's no team in the premierleague which has many more top players than us and only city's squad is as strong as ours IMO with Chelsea probably slightly inferior.
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I agree the manager is acting clueless, but you highlight these 4 players. Kind of shows why we can't heap all the blame on him. Other than Rooney, the other 3 have been injured. Rarely have all 4 been fit together.

People underestimate the impact this has on our team. We spent last year talking about how screwed we would be if these guys got injured, now that it's happened people are saying it shouldn't effect us, just because it is Moyes who is in charge and they want to heap anything they can at his doorstep.

To those people I say this; if Yaya, Aguero, Kompany were all injured together, would they struggle? Yes.
If Gerrard, Skrtel(?) and Suarez were injured. Would they struggle? Yes
If Ozil, Ramsey and Mertesacker were injured, would they struggle? Yes.

I could go on.
 
Cina said:
Aguero, Yaya, Toure, Silva, that's four.

Personally I think RvP and Rooney are the only two in our team you could put in that bracket anymore, Vidic is past his best and I think Carrick is slightly below that level.

Anyway, the problem isn't with our 'top players', it's with the rest of the squad.
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And that our key players have largely been injured (except Rooney). We were on a solid vain of form until Carrick got injured and RVP got injured.
 
pete_8 said:
Maybe Moyes is a brilliant cup Manager and we will win the Champions league? (Would Settle for that) .... It's hard to compare the 5-0 away win in the CL to our league performances..Strange
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If we're labelling, I'd say he was the exact opposite. Apart from one final and semi-final, I can't remember any other major inroads Everton made in the cups. He was however, fairly consistent in the league in terms of where they finished.
 
A very good midfielder or two coming in next month would have a huge effect on this team. The defence are edgy because they don't have cover or anybody to pass to. The wingers are being double-marked because every opponent knows that this is where we always play through. The strikers are starved of the ball.

A Fabregas/Modric type put in there next to Carrick would have a massive effect on the team.
 
Mel_F said:
The problem here is that you still want us to rely on crosses into the box. Nothing wrong with that, as long as it's not our only way of trying to create chances. It's too easy to crowd out the strikers in the box and modern defenders deal with crosses a lot better than they did 10 years ago. Crosses simply isn't an effective way to score goals. We need to be able to create chances from the middle of the pitch as well, but the only players who are capable of doing so right now are Carrick, Kagawa and Januzaj. The rest of the players are too ingrained in the 'get the ball out wide' mentality, Rooney included.
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Not at all Mel. I think we need to mix it up more than we do now though. These CM's that can ping a ball out to a winger on the run are the same ones that I would hope can thread a ball through to RvP or link up with Kagawa/Adnan. Crosses have served us well since the inception of the club, it's been our main style of play and one of our biggest sources of goals since I started watching United so I wouldn't want to remove it totally from out play. My ideal set up here would be a 4321 with the full backs almost playing as wingers.
 
SirFergie said:
If we're labelling, I'd say he was the exact opposite. Apart from one final and semi-final, I can't remember any other major inroads Everton made in the cups. He was however, fairly consistent in the league in terms of where they finished.
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It was more of a hopeful quote to be honest, I think the simple facts are that the squad at present just simply isn't strong enough or indeed good enough
 
Spoony said:
This gets my goat, why was he left with an ageing squad? How on earth is that long term planning?
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De Gea, Rafael, Smalling, Jones, Evans, Hernandez, Welbeck, Kagawa, Cleverley, Januzaj, are all first team players that are 25 or under.

We then have a perfect balance of player's who should be at their peak (late 20's): Rooney, Nani, RVP, Valencia, Fellaini, Young.

Finally we have experienced player's like Giggs, Vidic, Ferdinand, Carrick, Evra

You could say it was a poor squad, which is debatable. Likewise you could say younger player's aren't ready or good enough to replace their aging counterparts, again debatable. But an aging squad it ain't.
 
Irwhine said:
Not at all Mel. I think we need to mix it up more than we do now though. These CM's that can ping a ball out to a winger on the run are the same ones that I would hope can thread a ball through to RvP or link up with Kagawa/Adnan. Crosses have served us well since the inception of the club, it's been our main style of play and one of our biggest sources of goals since I started watching United so I wouldn't want to remove it totally from out play. My ideal set up here would be a 4321 with the full backs almost playing as wingers.
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I think that's sort of what Moyes wants as well, judging by what Evra and Rafael are instructed to do. Unfortunately Vidic isn't fast enough to cover the left flank when Evra is up the pitch, and the winger ahead of Evra has to track back as well. Kagawa has improved in this aspect but he's not good enough yet. Valencia on the right is only good for his 'defensive winger' duties as some have said on here, but he still switches off sometimes. As for wingers, we need to buy wingers who aren't afraid to take on their man, who has more weapons in his arsenal than hug the touchline and cross, and of course, actually put a fecking cross into the box. Moyes is persisting with 4-4-2 when our wingers have not have any semblance of form for the past 18 months.
 
Irwhine said:
Vidic not so much anymore Amol. Sadly we are now in the place we all feared with Carrick over the last few games. We simply cannot perform without him.
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Vidic is IMO. He's struggled with injuries is all. He was great when he played last season and still a fine defender when consistently fit. Kompany wasn't great too last season btw. Still a top player. Rooney's last seals didn't stop him from being one.
 
Every manager was destined to fail after Ferguson.

Moyes has been sacrificed, better Moyes than a Giggs

Need to cut the dead wood and rebuild the squad
 
Midway through December, have some patience until January, we'll add to the squad then and get better results. Keep the faith.
 
Slevs said:
Midway through December, have some patience until January, we'll add to the squad then and get better results. Keep the faith.
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After the farcical summer transfer window I've no faith we'll do better in January.
 
Cina said:
Aguero, Yaya, Toure, Silva, that's four.

Personally I think RvP and Rooney are the only two in our team you could put in that bracket anymore, Vidic is past his best and I think Carrick is slightly below that level.

Anyway, the problem isn't with our 'top players', it's with the rest of the squad.
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Silva? What's he done to be a top player? He's been a "top" player just a tad longer than Nani ffs.

Okay let's do a proper comparison.

Goalkeepers:
We have dea gea and they have that fecking pantomime fella.

Defence:
Kompany is better than anyone we have. Vidic if fit consistently is better IMO but kompany is better right now.

There's not much in the rest of the defences except we have better depth.

Central midfield:
City are ahead here. Their best player (toure) is better than ours as is their second best better than ours.

Wide midfield:
It's close here. In terms of ability, we are every bit as good. Nani, Valencia, Januzaj and Kagawa is every bit as good as navas, silva, nasri and Milner. I think the "way" we play, I.e the style of football doesn't actual help our wide midfielders (other than Valencia who still does feck all with it).

I'd rather have ours.

Strikers:
Aguero is probably in better form than ours, but our overall strength upfront is much stronger than city's. Hernandez and welbeck as third and fourth strikers is crazy good.

All in all, I think the biggest difference between us and city, or us and Chelsea isn't the squad, but how the team plays. If we start shifting away from this shit on a stick, feck fluidity and nice passing, crossing hooray football, you'll see how god this squad is.
 
“I do think the squad has got the depth and that’s why I played them [Anderson and Zaha] - to show the depth of the squad.''
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Is that quote true?...What is he actually going on about? He really isn't helping himself with the things he's saying atm.
 
LonelyFire said:
I would agree with that - Martin Samuel's article in the Mail today is spot on. We all expected an impact, but 9th place? Does the owners patience stretch that far? I dont believe so.

Im not doubting he was left an ageing squad that has some severe deficiencies i.e. midfield. However, the squad is significantly better than the performances or league position suggest. Moyes has to take a fair amount of responsibility for that. That said, he wasnt backed in the summer and he really ought to have been. Woodward/Glazers severely fecked up here.

As for today's press conference - we have to improve on passing, creating chances, and defending? Really David? Really?
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First step is go 4-3-3, get rid of Evra - play 4 defenders if necessary.. ensure Rafael is played at RB, pick Rooney at CF, play Januzaj as the more attacking of the three man midfield, no more Jones and Cleverley in midfield... if it has to be Anderson & Fellaini - so be it, I'd rather see them lazy bastards in there than 2 headless chickens who can't pass a ball between them.. and when fit, pick Carrick and Giggs. Make sure Nani is given a run of games and stop dropping flair players who are having a bad game, stay patient and let them run into some form.. announce the team to the players earlier.

We are admittedly in a dire situation but feck me some leadership and ingenuity wouldn't go amiss.. 4-3-3 is the first step because we are seriously being fecked over by playing in a 4-4-2 in which we don't have the players to make up for being outnumbered in midfield.
 
Ixion said:
After the farcical summer transfer window I've no faith we'll do better in January.
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Stay positive buddy, we're not fecking this up. He's a good manager when it comes to buying players, I think we'll do fine in January.
 
Bilbo said:
A very good midfielder or two coming in next month would have a huge effect on this team. The defence are edgy because they don't have cover or anybody to pass to. The wingers are being double-marked because every opponent knows that this is where we always play through. The strikers are starved of the ball.

A Fabregas/Modric type put in there next to Carrick would have a massive effect on the team.
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Maybe the fact we didn't sign any top class players in the window, plus Sir Alex leaving has deflated the team a bit. Maybe some are reacting the wrong way to their places being under threat. If I thought I was going to be replaced I would bust a gut to make myself irreplaceable. That hasn't been the case with some of the players. He needs to have all the help he need this January transfer window. If the board say he can't sign anybody, they and making his job impossible.
 
David Moyes had waited 11 years to see Everton win at Old Trafford - and when that elusive victory finally arrived it rounded off a night of misery and indignity for Manchester United's manager.
Unflattering statistics and insults piled up around Moyes like rubble as he made his way down the touchline to the derision of the Stretford End and the sound of the Everton fans - who had taunted him mercilessly throughout - speculating on his long-term employment prospects.
It became a scar on Moyes' record at Everton that he had failed to win at United, Arsenal, Chelsea or Liverpool in the Premier League during his time at Goodison Park.
And he was certainly feeling the pain as his successor Roberto Martinez took only 90 minutes to do what he could not, Bryan Oviedo's late goal giving Everton their first victory at Old Trafford in 21 years.

So to see Martinez's Everton - bold, positive and sticking rigidly to the passing game their manager demands - accomplish something in a single night that Moyes could not do in 11 years made this a chastening experience.
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amolbhatia100 said:
Silva? What's he done to be a top player? He's been a "top" player just a tad longer than Nani ffs.

Okay let's do a proper comparison.

Goalkeepers:
We have dea gea and they have that fecking pantomime fella.

Defence:
Kompany is better than anyone we have. Vidic if fit consistently is better IMO but kompany is better right now.

There's not much in the rest of the defences except we have better depth.

Central midfield:
City are ahead here. Their best player (toure) is better than ours as is their second best better than ours.

Wide midfield:
It's close here. In terms of ability, we are every bit as good. Nani, Valencia, Januzaj and Kagawa is every bit as good as navas, silva, nasri and Milner. I think the "way" we play, I.e the style of football doesn't actual help our wide midfielders (other than Valencia who still does feck all with it).

I'd rather have ours.

Strikers:
Aguero is probably in better form than ours, but our overall strength upfront is much stronger than city's. Hernandez and welbeck as third and fourth strikers is crazy good.

All in all, I think the biggest difference between us and city, or us and Chelsea isn't the squad, but how the team plays. If we start shifting away from this shit on a stick, feck fluidity and nice passing, crossing hooray football, you'll see how god this squad is.
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I agree on paper.. Goalkeeper, Defence, Wings, Up front.. we are better.. I mean any team would pray to have Nani and Januzaj out wide with Rafael at full back.. yet we're clearly not getting anything out of them and I don't blame the players here. Our defenders have to work harder than defenders in other teams purely because the shiteness of the midfield means they have to deal with more attacks and they don't have an easy option to pass too. Likewise our forward players have to operate deeper and on scraps because there isn't a constant supply of possession on which to feed on.

Sort out the midfield!
 
DomesticTadpole said:
I'd say playing Anderson actually proves we don't have a deep squad.
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Very true. Throwing on a youngster that's never kicked a ball in the PL when your needing a goal also doesn't help the theory that the squad is in all that great a shape.
 
If he had said he put Anderson and Zaha on to show the depth of the squad, it could have been he was meaning it isn't deep enough, but the first part of that quote was madness.
 
Raees said:
I agree on paper.. Goalkeeper, Defence, Wings, Up front.. we are better.. I mean any team would pray to have Nani and Januzaj out wide with Rafael at full back.. yet we're clearly not getting anything out of them and I don't blame the players here. Our defenders have to work harder than defenders in other teams purely because the shiteness of the midfield means they have to deal with more attacks and they don't have an easy option to pass too. Likewise our forward players have to operate deeper and on scraps because there isn't a constant supply of possession on which to feed on.

Sort out the midfield!
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Exactly, but I'd argue that it's not harder for our attackers and defenders at times only due to the midfield but for everybody also because of how we play. Look at our play, we are absolutely frightened to play throug the heart of teams. Are Nani, Kagawa, Rooney, rvp and Januzaj not capable of some scintillating passing moves to open teams right up? They clearly are. And even despite not having the best partners for Carrick they're more than capable of doing that. But tbrhy never do because we've become such a stale team in the way we play. Everyone ponders for 15 mins on the ball taking 20 touches before passing, other times players simply aren't making themselves available enough to give the guy on the ball enough options, players have lost the belief in tight spaces completely etc. There's a lot wrong with the way we play, and that's as bad as our actual midfield if not even worse.
 
Sam said:
Is that quote true?...What is he actually going on about? He really isn't helping himself with the things he's saying atm.
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:lol: so he plays two players to "show" our depth and keeps rvp on despite clearly not being fit enough to not send the wrong message. Please let these quotes be fake. He's turning into a joke.
 
Raees said:
I agree on paper.. Goalkeeper, Defence, Wings, Up front.. we are better.. I mean any team would pray to have Nani and Januzaj out wide with Rafael at full back.. yet we're clearly not getting anything out of them and I don't blame the players here. Our defenders have to work harder than defenders in other teams purely because the shiteness of the midfield means they have to deal with more attacks and they don't have an easy option to pass too. Likewise our forward players have to operate deeper and on scraps because there isn't a constant supply of possession on which to feed on.

Sort out the midfield!
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I don't agree or pay much heed to much of what Johnny Giles says these days but he made a great point recently to drive this home. You go to any pitch and the place where the grass is most worn apart from the goals is the centre circle. All the great defenders and strikers in the world are no use if you don't have that glue to tie them all together.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
:lol: so he plays two players to "show" our depth and keeps rvp on despite clearly not being fit enough to not send the wrong message. Please let these quotes be fake. He's turning into a joke.
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I honestly think the pressure is getting to much for him, he's not acting on instinct and just being himself. He's coming out with things that are just nonsense, and that I doubt he even believes himself. If this run carries on I really wouldn't be surprised if he quit.
 
Sam said:
Is that quote true?...What is he actually going on about? He really isn't helping himself with the things he's saying atm.
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If he believed in Zaha's value to the squad why has he been pretty much non-existent and unable to play himself into any semblance for form since the summer?

Moreover why would you imply that players were subbed onalmost for the sake of it, and with matters going the way they are for the team at that?

Is there a full transcript of today's press conference anywhere? I've just heard a clip on the radio where he's coming across like a smug piece of work. He attempts to take responsibility like a manager should, but then ruins it by trying to grab the credit for the team's performances in Europe.

How about we bring Phelan back just to do he PR?
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
If he believed in Zaha's value to the squad why has he been pretty much non-existent and unable to play himself into any semblance for form since the summer?

Moreover why would you imply that players were subbed onalmost for the sake of it, and with matters going the way they are for the team at that?

Is there a full transcript of today's press conference anywhere? I've just heard a clip on the radio where he's coming across like a smug piece of work. He attempts to take responsibility like a manager should, but then ruins it by trying to grab the credit for the team's performances in Europe.

How about we bring Phelan back just to do he PR?
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This won't help him if the players have problems with him. He should be praising them to the heights to make sure they are onside with him. He doesn't seem to be very good with press conferences. At Everton it was probably a couple of questions, 5 minute job. United managers get asked loads of stuff, not just about our team half the time. He has probably never had to speak to the press so much.
 
Cina said:
Aguero, Yaya, Toure, Silva, that's four.

Personally I think RvP and Rooney are the only two in our team you could put in that bracket anymore, Vidic is past his best and I think Carrick is slightly below that level.

Anyway, the problem isn't with our 'top players', it's with the rest of the squad.
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I find this a bit unfair on Carrick. During the last 2-3 seasons he has been the most consistent player in Premier League and in overall the best midfielder. Both of them have a ceiling high but how many times they reach that. Considering only last season, Carrick has been much much better than Toure.
 
Revan said:
I find this a bit unfair on Carrick. During the last 2-3 seasons he has been the most consistent player in Premier League and in overall the best midfielder. Both of them have a ceiling high but how many times they reach that. Considering only last season, Carrick has been much much better than Toure.
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He was the best last season, sadly, he's nigh on 33 years old, Toure is still 29 and by all accounts should only be peaking. Silva is what? 28?
 
Cina said:
He was the best last season, sadly, he's nigh on 33 years old, Toure is still 29 and by all accounts should only be peaking. Silva is what? 28?
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He's thirty and a half but only after your comment I looked at this. I would have thought that he's 32-33. Yeah the age is a factor, but I don't think that it will affect that much Carrick's game for another couple of years. He's similar to Scholes, Xavi, Pirlo etc in that aspect IMO.
 
We're probably going to get fourth place though, aren't we?

Only seven points off and nearly all the teams above us have far inferior teams. We also have our three best players from last season coming back to fitness and are presumably gonna be more willing to spend in January than any other team in the league. Plus we always do better in the second half of the season, as did Moyes' Everton team.

On a side note, Silva is definitely better than Nani. How is Nani still getting overrated here after all these years? We don't have any top wingers atm, unfortunately. If it wasn't for the blackhole beside Carrick we'd pay a lot more attention to that flaw.
 
David Moyes paying the price of Manchester United's virtual abstinence from top-level transfers since 2006

Moyes’ job is not to rebuild United as Ferguson once did. United is built. What Moyes faces is the task of reinvigorating the club with the old ruthlessness and dominance it once trademarked. A characteristic which has been talked about rather too much of late as a feature of history at Old Trafford rather than as part of an ongoing tradition.
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http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...006-can-he-refire-their-ambition-8991894.html
 
Generally we've spent the last few years underspending when compared to our rivals, haven't we? That gradually undermines the strength of the squad, now those flaws are being exposed.
 
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