Moyes So Far!

[Mersault]

That is true.

Woodward showed a little naivety in not working that out. Its also not a case of not having money - there was plenty to spend. In fact, it is believed we bid the highest for Bale. In sure Mel F will back me on that

Are you sure about that. I'm not too convinced. Given that we supposedly had contingency plans for when SAF went, there was precious little in place it seems. But loads of boasting. Like how we were going to sign a superstar. For all we know the club may have made a frivolous bid for Bale at a stage when the board knew it was never going to happen. I saw your posts regarding UWS and the Gill speculation. I've not read the editorial myself, so I don't know. But I worry about the direction of the club in general. When the next backlash against the owners comes, there'll be no untouchable manager to defend them. They know this. They should really have pulled out all the stops to give SAF successor the best possible platform. An absolute shambles it turned out to be.

On another note, I wonder what impact SAF's biography had on the team and dressing-room morale. Didn't read it, but glanced a page in the bookshop and read about how Valencia froze against Barca.

I don't know, there are just so many things that could have been done better. If this was another major club we'd all be laughing. Is there really any great ambition at the executive level, I wonder..

 

[RedRonaldo]

Ridiculous logic. Ferguson left behind a team coming to the end of its cycle with key players aging. Everton were left behind with youth coming through (Barkley and Coleman) who've helped them go up a level. Also the three fantastic loan signings shouldn't be ignored.

Nothing to do with how good the manager leaving is - it's just the cycle of the team. Martinez was lucky with his squad cycle. The comment about Moyes performance relates to where he took them from where they were.

By all means fans should be upset with what he has done so far at United but to argue he didn't do brilliantly at Everton is a gross injustice.

If he has done such an excellent job for Everton and make it such an easy job for Martinez, by this logic he must have done a terrible job for us then, right?

Fergie have left behind a youth coming through team too mind, namely Januazji, Zaha, Welbeck, Jones, Smalling, Rafael and De Gae

 

[Jimy_Hills_Chin]

SAF chose Moyes because DM has hard-earned knowledge of running the football side of a club in all aspects (as SAF himself did, with some delegation in later years). This is absolutely crucial - it's experience that many bigger names do not have, and was (IMO) the main reason why Sir Alex wanted Moyes here.

I fear that may be an antiquated philosophy.

Manchester United is not Everton, it is a leviathan of a football club. Sir Alex was able to evolve with the club as it evolved with the rise of football as a multifaceted commercial monster. I fear that expecting a manager to run the club top to bottom in the image of Sir Alex is a thing of the past. Lets face it too, Sir Alex is a one off, that mold is broken.

I would rather see our philosophy consist of a dedicated first team coach who is charged with organising a team to play attractive football. If there is a sporting director in the background then so be it. Just let the coach do the essential part of his job. Unfortunately the British are famous for being stubborn in evolving with the times in situations like these.

I do actually think that Sir Alex's belief that there is something inherently apparent in the Scottish character that is conducive to being a good leader played some part in the appointment of Moyes.

Whilst I agree with you regarding why Fergie appointed Moyes I am not sure if it will work in the modern game.

 

[7even]

I disagree with you. Another case of a fan who fails to acknowledge the good things he has done. Rooneys form. Januzaj contract. At least acknowledging our CM is weak. Some good performances.

Yes, he has made mistakes and his positive impacts are few and far between. But there have been some. If you can't acknowledge that then you are categorically biased.

In reply to your point, it is because in football 5 months isn't enough. I say in football, but I'm specifically talking about united, a club who for the last 25 years or so has been led by the same man with his same ways and methods. If you think a new man can come in and make the changes in 5 months then you're mistaken. Admittedly it doesn't look like there is much evidence of change, and it's beginning to worry a lot of us myself included. By to write him off after 5 months is a mistake. I'm not gonna compare the two scenarios but what I'll say is if the club listened to the majority of fans when Fergie started, then the club wouldn't be what it is today. He was given time when for all accounts and purposes he was failing at the beginning. It's different now - Moyes took over champions and Ferguson took over a sleeping giant. I get that. But I'm talking about fans reaction, not about the scenario.

Don't get me wrong. Off course I see the good stuffs but with no disrespect if getting Rooney in shape and secure a new contract for a young prospect Is his best achievements then we are in bigger trouble then even I thought.

I was more then happy after our first game against Swansea. After the win against Arsenal I maybe saw the light in the tunnel and after our five goal win against Bayer L I thought the man was on his feet. But that's about it.

Why should it be so difficult to take over from Ferguson? Wasn't everything in place apart from one or two midfielders? Did the supporters sack Phelan and Renee? Did the supporters mess up a whole transfer window? Who started to change our fitness methods so after five month we look in worse shape then ever... apart from Rooney? Who change our style of play to a complete mess?

Is it wrong for a supporter to have expectations and ask for more then this?



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Bojan11]

if anything SAF was being a stubborn old git by neglecting our midfield and instead opted to buy good players in other areas to satisfy his short term needs and make up for how poor it was. He's the one who should be taking the blame for the state its currently in. He left Moyes in a terrible position with the midfield.

Moyes could have addressed that in the summer? Instead he left it to the last day and started making bids for Herrera and Khedira.

 

[B20]

If anyone had said, before SAF left, that we should judge his successor after a mere 15 League games, people would've replied that this would be totally rash & unfair on the new manager; yet, here we are. Shameful stuff. 15 games, people. Knee-jerk as feck.

8 league games was all that was needed to suss out Roy Hodgson. It was clear after the Everton defeat he was never going to make it. Unfortunately, he got another 12 league games to waste before moving on. Thank feck he didn't get another transfer window.

 

[Revan]

if anything SAF was being a stubborn old git by neglecting our midfield and instead opted to buy good players in other areas to satisfy his short term needs and make up for how poor it was. He's the one who should be taking the blame for the state its currently in. He left Moyes in a terrible position with the midfield.

I agree with this Cina, but it was working for him. I don't think that it was great but he was getting results with this midfield and I think that if he would have found a good midfielder he would have signed him. I also think that he should have done better in finding that good midfielder.

However my point was to the people who mention a positive that Moyes has acnowledged that our midfield should strngthen. I think that the only person who hasn't acnowledged that is Twigginator so I don't think that it should be seen as a positive if he has acnowledged that. Now the better question is what he did to improve that? Without going in circles I think that both him and Woodward were very incompetent at transfer dealings and the last minute buy actually made things even worse cause now we have 30m less to actually improve that.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

It's not just about results, potential...or being Scottish & such similar nonsense: SAF chose Moyes because DM has hard-earned knowledge of running the football side of a club in all aspects (as SAF himself did, with some delegation in later years). This is absolutely crucial - it's experience that many bigger names do not have, and was (IMO) the main reason why Sir Alex wanted Moyes here.

Excellent point. And one that is constantly overlooked at the moment. Fergie said it himself last year: He would struggle himself to come in and take over such a huge operation. It involves a great deal more than picking eleven men to play on a Saturday afternoon.

Now, as I've said before one can question the strategy itself: Perhaps the board should have opted for a re-structuring of said huge operation, appointed a DOF and hired a manager whose tasks would be more similar to what, say, Ancelotti does in Madrid. Perhaps it would have been wiser to regard Fergie as a one-off, impossible to replace in terms of what he actually did as a manager. But the fact is that we went for the continuity model - and Moyes must be judged accordingly.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Moyes could have addressed that in the summer? Instead he left it to the last day and started making bids for Herrera and Khedira.

He did try to address it in the summer, feck sake. We were making bids for players since day one, do you really believe the club sat on their arse all summer?

Moyes came in and was given a shite midfield and a brand new CEO who hadn't a notion how to operate in the transfer market, how exactly would you expect him to fare under those circumstances? Obviously he panicked a bit towards the end when he realized Woodward couldn't sign the players he wanted and decided to go for his best player from his former club, unfortunately we ended up completely overpaying but pretty much every big club overpaid this summer,it also looks like maybe Fellaini doesn't have what it takes to play for a big club (although it's still early days), but it's not like SAF never made mistakes like that, i.e. Ashley Young.

I don't blame Moyes for the midfield, I blame SAF for letting it deteriorate so badly and our club for being so useless in the transfer market this summer, two things completely out of Moyes control.

 

[Revan]

8 league games was all that was needed to suss out Roy Hodgson. It was clear after the Everton defeat he was never going to make it. Unfortunately, he got another 12 league games to waste before moving on. Thank feck he didn't get another transfer window.

Could he have done worse than what Kenny did though?

It amazes me pepple who say that LFC sacked too early Hodgson. You sacked him too late IMO. Anyway your problem was that the next big decision (hiring Kenny) was more sentimental than logical and it didn't improve things that much. If you would have got someone good to replace Woy (Martinez, Rodgers etc) likely you would have been in a much better position and wouldn't have wasted the last 3 years.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I agree with this Cina, but it was working for him. I don't think that it was great but he was getting results with this midfield and I think that if he would have found a good midfielder he would have signed him. I also think that he should have done better in finding that good midfielder.

However my point was to the people who mention a positive that Moyes has acnowledged that our midfield should strngthen. I think that the only person who hasn't acnowledged that is Twigginator so I don't think that it should be seen as a positive if he has acnowledged that. Now the better question is what he did to improve that? Without going in circles I think that both him and Woodward were very incompetent at transfer dealings and the last minute buy actually made things even worse cause now we have 30m less to actually improve that.

Nah, I can't go along with this, Woodward was incompetent, Moyes was trying his best to address a massive problem area in his very first window here.

You're being too nice to SAF, he clearly neglected the midfield to serve his own needs because he knew he had a rubbish record of buying there in the past and would be better served by buying players in other areas where he had a far better success rate, he likely knew the midfield could hold out for a few years before it went bust and that's what happened. I blame him, not Moyes. People can slate me all they want for blaming our great former manager and not our new under fire one, but that's how I see it. SAF made a balls of our midfield and it's leaving Moyes in the shitter now.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Martinez lucky ? They lost their best player from last season. Baines and Jagielka are nearly approaching 30, Distin is 32. Best signings he made were loan signings and McCarthy.

They have been lacking a decent striker. Martinez addresses that by signing two on loan. Moyes failed to address key issues. It didn't take Martinez long to realise that Everton lacked a decent striker and he signed three in the summer.

We will see next season, when Martinez may actually have to sign a striker, oh he did actually sign one Kone, who is awful. Moyes signed Jelavic, who was great, then has gone completely awol. You can't predict that is going to happen when you sign someone.

 

[SteveJ]

8 league games was all that was needed to suss out Roy Hodgson. It was clear after the Everton defeat he was never going to make it. Unfortunately, he got another 12 league games to waste before moving on. Thank feck he didn't get another transfer window.

I'm not sure that only results did for Hodgson - his comments while LFC manager were sufficiently (and typically) clumsy to turn fans against him. Eventually, the board listened.

 

[Revan]

He did try to address it in the summer, feck sake. We were making bids for players since day one, do you really believe the club sat on their arse all summer?

Moyes came in and was given a shite midfield and a brand new CEO who hadn't a notion how to operate in the transfer market, how exactly would you expect him to fare under those circumstances? Obviously he panicked a bit towards the end when he realized Woodward couldn't sign the players he wanted and decided to go for his best player from his former club, unfortunately we ended up completely overpaying but pretty much every big club overpaid this summer,it also looks like maybe Fellaini doesn't have what it takes to play for a big club (although it's still early days), but it's not like SAF never made mistakes like that, i.e. Ashley Young.

I don't blame Moyes for the midfield, I blame SAF for letting it deteriorate so badly and our club for being so useless in the transfer market this summer, two things completely out of Moyes control.

We made only these bids for players:

1) Two bids on Fabregas - pretty obvious that we were played there and I don't have any idea how the hell they thought that they can get Fabregas
2) One bid for Herrera - again they didn't know what everybody knew
3) A bid for De Rossi - Roma asked 15m while we only offered 10m
4) 3 bids for Fellaini
5) 4 bids for Baines

I think it is pretty clear who were the main targets. Also, I think that Moyes should have done better in identifying more midfielders. Fabregas was the impossible target, Herrera I don't know what they though. I don't get why we weren't happy to pay those extra 5m on a world class player like De Rossi, but then we didn't hesitate to do that on Fellaini. Why we weren't interested on Thiago who was cheap and on Strootman who apparently was a done deal? If we really had only 30m then how the hell Moyes thought that we can get Fabregas.

It was an awful transfer season and I think that both Moyes and Woody were equally shit on that. Moyes for not indentifying better his target and Woody for thinking that Barca are idiots. But considering that it was the first time for both of them, then we can only hope that it won't get repeated.

 

[Bojan11]

He did try to address it in the summer, feck sake. We were making bids for players since day one, do you really believe the club sat on their arse all summer?

Moyes came in and was given a shite midfield and a brand new CEO who hadn't a notion how to operate in the transfer market, how exactly would you expect him to fare under those circumstances? Obviously he panicked a bit towards the end when he realized Woodward couldn't sign the players he wanted and decided to go for his best player from his former club, unfortunately we ended up completely overpaying but pretty much every big club overpaid this summer,it also looks like maybe Fellaini doesn't have what it takes to play for a big club (although it's still early days), but it's not like SAF never made mistakes like that, i.e. Ashley Young.

I don't blame Moyes for the midfield, I blame SAF for letting it deteriorate so badly and our club for being so useless in the transfer market this summer, two things completely out of Moyes control.

I believe the club wasted their time on fairy tale targets like Fabregas or Bale. Why didn't we sign Thiago? How come Bayern just came in and had him signed a few days later. Whilst we were fannying around. Why did we not go for Herrera earlier? Or even Cabaye in the summer? Fabregas decided on 8th August that he was going to stay. We had nearly four weeks, so what did we exactly do in those four weeks? And don't think Fellaini was a last minute panic buy. Moyes made a bid for him and Baines for £30m, so he was always in Moyes plans.

Would you have signed RVP or a CM last summer? Fergie gambled and got it right.

 

[Massive Spanner]

We made only these bids for players:

1) Two bids on Fabregas - pretty obvious that we were played there and I don't have any idea how the hell they thought that they can get Fabregas
2) One bid for Herrera - again they didn't know what everybody knew
3) A bid for De Rossi - Roma asked 15m while we only offered 10m
4) 3 bids for Fellaini
5) 4 bids for Baines

I think it is pretty clear who were the main targets. Also, I think that Moyes should have done better in identifying more midfielders. Fabregas was the impossible target, Herrera I don't know what they though. I don't get why we weren't happy to pay those extra 5m on a world class player like De Rossi, but then we didn't hesitate to do that on Fellaini. Why we weren't interested on Thiago who was cheap and on Strootman who apparently was a done deal? If we really had only 30m then how the hell Moyes thought that we can get Fabregas.

It was an awful transfer season and I think that both Moyes and Woody were equally shit on that. Moyes for not indentifying better his target and Woody for thinking that Barca are idiots. But considering that it was the first time for both of them, then we can only hope that it won't get repeated.

How the hell do you know who we bid for?

 

[Bestie07]

Nah, I can't go along with this, Woodward was incompetent, Moyes was trying his best to address a massive problem area in his very first window here.

You're being too nice to SAF, he clearly neglected the midfield to serve his own needs because he knew he had a rubbish record of buying there in the past and would be better served by buying players in other areas where he had a far better success rate, he likely knew the midfield could hold out for a few years before it went bust and that's what happened. I blame him, not Moyes. People can slate me all they want for blaming our great former manager and not our new under fire one, but that's how I see it. SAF made a balls of our midfield and it's leaving Moyes in the shitter now.

Then his best wasn't good enough. He basically wanted Fabregas and Baines all summer and failed to get either. All this while Coentrao was available to be had, but he went in for him at the last moment and Real panicked. Once it was clear that Fabregas was unattainable, he should have done better with other targets. Woodward might have been more at fault, but Moyes showed incredible naivety as well. He'll have another crack at the market in January, and let's hope him and Woodward are better this time around.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I believe the club wasted their time on fairy tale targets like Fabregas or Bale. Why didn't we sign Thiago? How come Bayern just came in and had him signed a few days later. Whilst we were fannying around. Why did we not go for Herrera earlier? Or even Cabaye in the summer? Fabregas decided on 8th August that he was going to stay. We had nearly four weeks, so what did we exactly do in those four weeks? And don't think Fellaini was a last minute panic buy. Moyes made a bid for him and Baines for £30m, so he was always in Moyes plans.

Would you have signed RVP or a CM last summer? Fergie gambled and got it right.

Again, how the feck do you know who the club did/didn't bid for?

The RvP thing is debatable, it served SAF very well in his last year here but clearly a top class CM would've benefited us better in the long term. I think we'd have won the league without RvP anyway.

 

[Revan]

Nah, I can't go along with this, Woodward was incompetent, Moyes was trying his best to address a massive problem area in his very first window here.

You're being too nice to SAF, he clearly neglected the midfield to serve his own needs because he knew he had a rubbish record of buying there in the past and would be better served by buying players in other areas where he had a far better success rate, he likely knew the midfield could hold out for a few years before it went bust and that's what happened. I blame him, not Moyes. People can slate me all they want for blaming our great former manager and not our new under fire one, but that's how I see it. SAF made a balls of our midfield and it's leaving Moyes in the shitter now.

Well, if Sir Alex thought that we will do ok with a bad midfield and wasn't sure that he can find the right midfielder, then why we should blame him. Let's imagine he spend 50m on two midfielders which didn't work, that means 50m less for Moyes. He bought what he thought would improve the team.

Saying that, I have been whining for years about our state of midfield. I just think that we should have done better this summer considering that our new manager immediately realized that our midfield was wank. Signing Fellaini for 28m didn't improve it a bit, we now have 28m less to sing a midfielder.

We will see next season, when Martinez may actually have to sign a striker, oh he did actually sign one Kone, who is awful. Moyes signed Jelavic, who was great, then has gone completely awol. You can't predict that is going to happen when you sign someone.

He also signed Yakubu for 12m. Not Martinez's fault that he couldn't find a very good striker on 12 years and Martinez found one on 2 months.

I don't get why people are attributing his loan deals to luck. Was luck or he did good his homeworks. If United would hame managed to get Coentrao on loan, would we have said that Moyes was lucky on loaning a great left back.

We'll see how he copes next year of course, and it will be even more difficult if also Barca don't loan again Deulofeu, but we'll see. What we can say for sure though, is that Everton was the best team in the league when it came to transfer dealings of this summer. They improved their team considerably and got more money from selling a player than for alh the players they got. Brilliant business and I said so on 2nd of Septemeber.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Then his best wasn't good enough. He basically wanted Fabregas and Baines all summer and failed to get either. All this while Coentrao was available to be had, but he went in for him at the last moment and Real panicked. Once it was clear that Fabregas was unattainable, he should have done better with other targets. Woodward might have been more at fault, but Moyes showed incredible naivety as well. He'll have another crack at the market in January, and let's hope him and Woodward are better this time around.

And why was that? I believe it was because our new CEO completely underbid for both of them, which is somehow Moyes fault?

I'm not saying Moyes is blameless for the summer, he made some weird decisions, but the idea that he was awful and completely inept is nonsense, he was put in a really tough position, he was left a really poor midfield and given a CEO to work with who clearly didn't have a fecking notion what he was doing.

 

[Revan]

How the hell do you know who we bid for?

Ok, these are the reported bids we made.

 

[B20]

I'm not sure that only results did for Hodgson - his comments while LFC manager were sufficiently (and typically) clumsy to turn fans against him. Eventually, the board listened.

Definitely. Roy managed to do everything wrong. awful awful comments, terrible results and even worse performances to go with it. Moyes hasn't gone that bad, but I do think there is a valid case for cutting your losses early.

I think Moyes is leaning that way given how unambitious his tactics look. It's not like you've been dropping points from mistakes made in executing a bold and difficult new tactical plan. Hopefully, you'll take a year more or so before the penny drops.

 

[B20]

Could he have done worse than what Kenny did though?

I believe so. We were chasing Carlton Cole at the time. And he had already signed Poulsen and Konchesky.

Carroll was awful for the fee (though, I maintain, a good player), but given that we got Suarez in the same window I'd say overall it was great.

It amazes me pepple who say that LFC sacked too early Hodgson. You sacked him too late IMO. Anyway your problem was that the next big decision (hiring Kenny) was more sentimental than logical and it didn't improve things that much. If you would have got someone good to replace Woy (Martinez, Rodgers etc) likely you would have been in a much better position and wouldn't have wasted the last 3 years.

He was perfect for the interrim. Did too well though - there was never going to be anyone else getting the position that summer given the results after he took over.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Well, if Sir Alex thought that we will do ok with a bad midfield and wasn't sure that he can find the right midfielder, then why we should blame him. Let's imagine he spend 50m on two midfielders which didn't work, that means 50m less for Moyes. He bought what he thought would improve the team.

Saying that, I have been whining for years about our state of midfield. I just think that we should have done better this summer considering that our new manager immediately realized that our midfield was wank. Signing Fellaini for 28m didn't improve it a bit, we now have 28m less to sing a midfielder.

Of course we should blame him. He had far more than one summer to address it, you know, and time and time again he neglected it. To me, signing RvP was basically him going "I don't give a feck about the midfield, I'll get the best striker in the league cause I want one more title before I go". Was that justified? Maybe, cause he deserved another title before retirement, but clearly it had long term consequences that made our new managers job very difficult.

If SAF spent £50m on two midfielders who didn't work, I'd blame him, just like people are blaming Moyes, obviously. I blame him also for not trying to sort out our midfield though, I'd have rathered he tried and failed instead of neglecting it completely. At least Moyes tried!

 

[Revan]

And why was that? I believe it was because our new CEO completely underbid for both of them, which is somehow Moyes fault?

I'm not saying Moyes is blameless for the summer, he made some weird decisions, but the idea that he was awful and completely inept is nonsense, he was put in a really tough position, he was left a really poor midfield and given a CEO to work with who clearly didn't have a fecking notion what he was doing.

To be fair, we didn't underbid on Baines, it was only that Everton didn't want to sell. I just don't get why we were so desperate to sign him that we spend the entire summer making bids for him, while Coentrao who was younger, cheaper and according to many people better was available during the entire summer and then we made a last minute bid to get him.

Fabregas bid was stupid. We can blame who we want but all should share their blame. How the hell someone thought that Barca would sell him, especially after they lose Thiago. Unlike us, Barca is not a club who has money as the primary motivation, so why should they weaken themselves by selling him.

 

[B20]

Of course we should blame him. He had far more than one summer to address it, you know, and time and time again he neglected it. To me, signing RvP was basically him going "I don't give a feck about the midfield, I'll get the best striker in the league cause I want one more title before I go". Was that justified? Maybe, cause he deserved another title before retirement, but clearly it had long term consequences that made our new managers job very difficult.

Of course it was justified. He won the fecking league, ffs!

Swear to god, you wouldn't find that comment anywhere but a manchester united forum. Spoiled brats, the lot of you.

 

[Bojan11]

Again, how the feck do you know who the club did/didn't bid for?

The RvP thing is debatable, it served SAF very well in his last year here but clearly a top class CM would've benefited us better in the long term. I think we'd have won the league without RvP anyway.

So the club didn't bid for Fabregas? Didn't bid for Herrera? Or didn't bid for both Fellaini and Baines, which Everton called derisory. Fellaini wasn't a last minute signing. Moyes wanted him for a long time, but for some reason refused to pay £23m hence the £30m joint bid.

As for Thiago, I'm pretty sure we were interested. All that ball signing with DDG there is no smoke without fire.

 

[Bestie07]

And why was that? I believe it was because our new CEO completely underbid for both of them, which is somehow Moyes fault?

I'm not saying Moyes is blameless for the summer, he made some weird decisions, but the idea that he was awful and completely inept is nonsense, he was put in a really tough position, he was left a really poor midfield and given a CEO to work with who clearly didn't have a fecking notion what he was doing.

We don't know what went on behind the scenes, but we can't absolve Moyes from the blame completely. Let's not downplay the fact that he was at fault too. Summer window was shambles from start to finish, so much so that most were relieved that it closed even though we failed to strengthen just so we would stop making fool of ourselves. He should have known what Baines would have cost better than most. He should have known that Fellaini was worth half of what we paid for him and would not actually solve our problems. He should have been a bit ruthless in shipping out a few players too. It's all coming to bite him back at the moment. Next four games are going to be vital, lose another couple and I can see him walking. The pressure is beginning to pile up unfortunately.

 

[Revan]

Of course it was justified. He won the fecking league, ffs!

Swear to god, you wouldn't find that comment anywhere but a manchester united forum. Spoiled brats, the lot of you.

I agree with Cina that we would have won the league without him.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Of course it was justified. He won the fecking league, ffs!

Swear to god, you wouldn't find that comment anywhere but a manchester united forum. Spoiled brats, the lot of you.

Wait, why? I'm being spoilt for questioning whether signing a player was worth it for the league? Wha'?

Like I said, I think we'd have won the league without him anyway, hence I'm not sure it was.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

We made only these bids for players:

1) Two bids on Fabregas - pretty obvious that we were played there and I don't have any idea how the hell they thought that they can get Fabregas
2) One bid for Herrera - again they didn't know what everybody knew
3) A bid for De Rossi - Roma asked 15m while we only offered 10m
4) 3 bids for Fellaini
5) 4 bids for Baines

I think it is pretty clear who were the main targets. Also, I think that Moyes should have done better in identifying more midfielders. Fabregas was the impossible target, Herrera I don't know what they though. I don't get why we weren't happy to pay those extra 5m on a world class player like De Rossi, but then we didn't hesitate to do that on Fellaini. Why we weren't interested on Thiago who was cheap and on Strootman who apparently was a done deal? If we really had only 30m then how the hell Moyes thought that we can get Fabregas.

It was an awful transfer season and I think that both Moyes and Woody were equally shit on that. Moyes for not indentifying better his target and Woody for thinking that Barca are idiots. But considering that it was the first time for both of them, then we can only hope that it won't get repeated.

The conclusion is obvious and, yes, damning to both Woody and Moyes (with whom the buck stops, that can't be denied): We didn't do what we were supposed to, namely to land a couple of players to significantly improve our CM situation.

But the details are unclear. We don't know exactly what went wrong. And people overplay the "Woody is an incompetent buffoon" angle. The Bilbao stories are just media bollocks. His own explanation is perfectly plausible. We inquired about the possibility of doing a deal - they said no. Whether we were played by Barca (or Dein, more likely) or whether there was an actual possibility at some point (before Titi-Tata came into the picture) - we simply don't know. But there must've been a reason for those bids other than sheer ignorance on Woody's part.

To me, however, the window at least showed clearly that Moyes is well aware of the most pressing issue right now. We need better midfielders and the targets he was after (both the definite and the reported ones) were players I think most of us would classify as more than suitable. That's a good thing, surely. If he - and Woody - keep on blundering when it comes to actually landing such deals, we can rightly demand their heads. But fecking up in their very first window is forgivable in my book - as long as they get it right in the next one(s).

 

[B20]

Wait, why? I'm being spoilt for questioning whether signing a player was worth it for the league? Wha'?

Like I said, I think we'd have won the league without him anyway, hence I'm not sure it was.

I think that's doubtful. At any rate, there is no doubt at all he was the main impetus for your league challenge. It was a decision that made a major contribution to actually winning the title. Questioning that is just plain churlish.

And yes, asking if signing a player was worth it for winning the league is really being very spoiled.

 

[alastair]

What's going to be fascinating is the extent to which United stick with Moyes, because there are some problems that will now take a long time to fix.

When Arsenal started losing the odd game in the aftermath of the Invincibles era, and then moved stadium, our home fortress disappeared. We are still rebuilding it eight years later. We're not quite there yet. This is going to be something with which Moyes has to contend. There's not a team in the league that won't come to Old Trafford emboldened. Dealing with it is like quelling an uprising from some tribe in your empire. You might go on a decent run of form, and then they'll rise up again, and then you quell it, then it rises up again etc.

This is why I think Moyes has to look at United away from home as the place where he might rejuvenate your form. In a way, there's less pressure and you can sit back a bit more and play on the break. This might be his best bet.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Nah, I can't go along with this, Woodward was incompetent, Moyes was trying his best to address a massive problem area in his very first window here.

You're being too nice to SAF, he clearly neglected the midfield to serve his own needs because he knew he had a rubbish record of buying there in the past and would be better served by buying players in other areas where he had a far better success rate, he likely knew the midfield could hold out for a few years before it went bust and that's what happened. I blame him, not Moyes. People can slate me all they want for blaming our great former manager and not our new under fire one, but that's how I see it. SAF made a balls of our midfield and it's leaving Moyes in the shitter now.

Woodward's tasking when it comes to transfers begins with the manager and chief scout. He can be held accountable for the conduct of a bidding process perhaps but Moyes is the one giving out the orders and setting the priorities in that area. It can only be hoped that both have learnt lessons from the summer and we'll see the results of this in January, Herrera should arrive before the second week of the window if they have been doing their jobs properly [or another such main target].

Considering our well publicised pursuit of Sneijder, Hazard and Alcantara in recent years [not to mention the signings of Kagawa and Zaha], it should be evident to you that Sir Alex was attempt6s to rejuvenate the midfield in recent times.

 

[Massive Spanner]

So the club didn't bid for Fabregas? Didn't bid for Herrera? Or didn't bid for both Fellaini and Baines, which Everton called derisory. Fellaini wasn't a last minute signing. Moyes wanted him for a long time, but for some reason refused to pay £23m hence the £30m joint bid.

As for Thiago, I'm pretty sure we were interested. All that ball signing with DDG there is no smoke without fire.

They did bid for them, but they're just the ones we know about, we've no idea who else the club bid on over the summer, it's pointless to only name certain players.

 

[Revan]

The conclusion is obvious and, yes, damning to both Woody and Moyes (with whom the buck stops, that can't be denied): We didn't do what we were supposed to, namely to land a couple of players to significantly improve our CM situation.

But the details are unclear. We don't know exactly what went wrong. And people overplay the "Woody is an incompetent buffoon" angle. The Bilbao stories are just media bollocks. His own explanation is perfectly plausible. We inquired about the possibility of doing a deal - they said no. Whether we were played by Barca (or Dein, more likely) or whether there was an actual possibility at some point (before Titi-Tata came into the picture) - we simply don't know. But there must've been a reason for those bids other than sheer ignorance on Woody's part.

To me, however, the window at least showed clearly that Moyes is well aware of the most pressing issue right now. We need better midfielders and the targets he was after (both the definite and the reported ones) were players I think most of us would classify as more than suitable. That's a good thing, surely. If he - and Woody - keep on blundering when it comes to actually landing such deals, we can rightly demand their heads. But fecking up in their very first window is forgivable in my book - as long as they get it right in the next one(s).

Pretty good post.

Don't agree that Bilbao stories are bollocks, they proved that they are wankers with Martinez, Llorente and now Herrera case.

We went for some good players, but we signed a fairly mediocre one. What I think is unforgiven is that we could have get De Rossi for half the money we paid for Fellaini.

But yeah, they should get another window before we can judje if they can do something right when it comes to transfers.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I think that's doubtful. At any rate, there is no doubt at all he was the main impetus for your league challenge. It was a decision that made a major contribution to actually winning the title. Questioning that is just plain churlish.

And yes, asking if signing a player was worth it for winning the league is really being very spoiled.

You have a weird definition of spoiled then.

I think without RvP Rooney would've been far better and Kagawa would've had more of an impact, I stand by that we'd have still won it. Look how comfortably we won it in the end, you think RvP was so influential that he was responsible for winning it with 5-6 games to go?

 

[Massive Spanner]

Woodward's tasking when it comes to transfers begins with the manager and chief scout. He can be held accountable for the conduct of a bidding process perhaps but Moyes is the one giving out the orders and setting the priorities in that area. It can only be hoped that both have learnt lessons from the summer and we'll see the results of this in January, Herrera should arrive before the second week of the window if they have been doing their jobs properly [or another such main target].

Considering our well publicised pursuit of Sneijder, Hazard and Alcantara in recent years [not to mention the signings of Kagawa and Zaha], it should be evident to you that Sir Alex was attempt6s to rejuvenate the midfield in recent times.

This last paragraph is nuts, Sneijder and Hazard aren't central midfielders, Thiago had nothing to do with SAF, and Kagawa and Zaha aren't central midfielders either.

Basically absolutely nothing here suggests that SAF was trying to fix our fecking midfield!

 

[B20]

You have a weird definition of spoiled then.

I don't think so. I think you will come to learn just have spoiled you've been in the past two decades in the next few years.

If we signed a striker that became our best player and we then won the league, I sure as hell wouldn't be questioning if it was worth it or if the money could have been spent better elsewhere for the longterm. I'd be thanking my lucky stars we won the league.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I don't think so. I think you will come to learn just have spoiled you've been in the past two decades in the next few years.

I think I was aware long before now of how spoiled we were.

me questioning the signing of RvP has nowt to do with that.